Messages

1

Ingredients / Re: My Recent Experience with Citra

« on: March 07, 2013, 11:00:37 AM »

I made an all Citra hopped IPA a few years ago (my attempt to ‘clone’ a Hill Farmstead Citra IPA). Citra hops are the most potent hops that I have ever brewed with! I only used 1.5 ounces for dry hopping and after 2 weeks of bottle conditioning I had a hard time drinking the beer; it was just too ‘in your face’ intense. An additional 1-2 weeks of conditioning permitted the hop aroma/flavor to mellow a bit and that beer was delicious. It had nice, enjoyable tropical fruit flavors to my palate. Some friends while drinking that beer noted an aroma/flavor of cat pee but they asked for seconds so I guess they like cat pee? I have read that Citra hops have a high amount of a compound 4MMP which some people perceive as being cat pee (apparently a higher incidence of this in women).

I brewed a Citra/Simcoe IPA where I bittered with Warrior and used a 50/50 blend of Citra/Simcoe for flavor, end of boil and dry hop additions. I thought this beer turned out great; I think that Citra and Simcoe complement each other.

Cheers!

2

Ingredients / Re: Floor Malted Pilz thoughts

« on: February 15, 2013, 11:39:12 AM »

I called again and it is still currently Global Malt.

So it sort of sounds like the Floor Malted Bo Pils would be a great malt for - say a Bo Pils.
I mainly do German beers - helles, marzen, g-pils, dopplebock so I think I will save a few $$s and go with the Best Maltz pils.

But I'm glad to have gotten some good info out of this questions.

Cheers...

Thanks for that information: Northern Brewer German Pilsners Malt is from Global Malting.

Cheers!

3

Ingredients / Re: Floor Malted Pilz thoughts

« on: February 14, 2013, 03:58:31 PM »

Jeff, thank you for taking the time to describe the various Pilsner malts. Based upon your descriptions it seem to me that Durst Pilsner Malt would be the best ‘fit’ for me if I were to brew a German Pilsner.

I frequently purchase homebrew ingredients from Northern Brewer. They sell a German Pilsner malt that is simple labeled as German Pilsner. Does anybody know which malting company that Northern Brewer buys their German Pilsner malt from?

Cheers!

4

Ingredients / Re: Floor Malted Pilz thoughts

« on: February 14, 2013, 11:04:37 AM »

I have used the Weyermann Bohemian Pils and the Floor Malted Bohemian Pils, along with the standard Weyermann Pils. I think the malt variety is the big differrence, the floor malting adds a little more flavor, but not much.

Jeff, you bring up something I've always been curious about...what is it about floor malting that makes a difference?  Why would that add more flavor?  Any idea?

Jeff, I reviewed the Weyermann product list (pdf):

•   Bohemian Pilsner Malt: 1.7 – 2.1 L; made from Bohemian barley varieties
•   Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt: 1.6 – 2.3 L; made from Bohemian spring barley
•   Pilsner Malt: 1.5 – 2.1 L: no specific mention of barley variety (German barley varieties?)

How would you compare and contrast the above Malts?

Do you have the opinion that Weyermann makes ‘better’ malts than other German Malting Companies (e.g., Best, Durst, etc.)?

Cheers!

Jack

5

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Unusual Lager Start of Fermentation

« on: February 12, 2013, 01:52:39 PM »

“I pitch cold to minimize the VDK production.”

Jeff, I am fully cognizant of the rationale for pitching cold (what I referred to as the ‘traditional’ method in my prior post).

I also recognize that for a starter size of 6 L there is indeed a motivation for not pitching the contents of 6 L of starter beer. An alternative that you might want to consider is performing a crash cool and decant of your 6 Liters but then add just a bit of wort prior to pitching to awaken the yeast just prior to the pitch.

I know that you like to brew in in the ‘traditional’ manner but my method results in fast starts to fermentation with no noticeable flavors from VDK production. The resulting beers also have non-detectable esters or higher alcohols.

As the old saying goes: there is more than one way to skin a rabbit.

I hope that your Helles turns out great!

Cheers!

Jack

6

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Unusual Lager Start of Fermentation

« on: February 11, 2013, 12:42:20 PM »

“They were active, just not dispersed.” I just can’t wrap my head around this.

How can a yeast be active but not dispersed?

I have made many batches of lagers (70+) and they have all started in less than 24 hours; a typical lager show signs of fermentation in about 8-10 hours.

I should provide a caveat that I do not follow the ‘traditional’ method of yeast pitching for a lager:

•   I pitch the entire content of the yeast starter at high krausen
•   I pitch at temperature greater than 45°F; for my last lager (a CAP) I pitched at 57°F. Over an 18 - 24 hour period I had the primary down to 50°F.

I should also mention that I grow my lager starters at cool temperatures: 58-60°F.

My overall philosophy for yeast pitching (both ales and lagers) is to pitch plenty of healthy and growing yeast cells. It is my opinion that healthy, growing yeast cells are just as important to getting a healthy fermentation going as the metric of yeast cell count.

Cheers!

7

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: yeast starter temperature and gravity

« on: February 06, 2013, 06:50:26 PM »

I read Jamil's article from 2007 in Zymurgy.  The only thing that I was left a little confused on was the goal temperatures.  He said 65-75 is the ideal range, and 70 is ideal.  Little lower for lagers and a little higher for ales.  But then he says right after that that when you pitch the yeast starter to the main wort that if there is a large temperature shift the yeast can be stunned.  So do I need to cool the starter down before I pitch (particularly for lagers)?

You bring up a good point. You should bring your yeast starter down to a temperature similar to the wort within the primary fermenter. From the online book How to Brew by John Palmer:

“In addition, the pitching temperature should be the same as the fermentation temperature to prevent thermally shocking the yeast. In other words, you will need to chill the wort down to 45 - 55 °F before pitching the yeast. The yeast starter should also have been brought down to this temperature range while it was fermenting.”

So, for example for a lager you could bring your starter down to around 55°F and your wort to that same temperature of 55°F and the pitch the yeast. Or equivalently you could do everything in the previous sentence except replace 55°F with 45°F.

Cheers!

8

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Add Extract DURING a Mini-Mash to use the Enzymes?

« on: February 06, 2013, 01:49:16 PM »

I'll second the Breiss pilsen DME.  It's the only extract I use.  I've found it to be highly fermentable and extremely light in color.  I don't think I've had anything get down to 1.006, but I'm typically starting out around 1.08 at the low end and consistently coming in at 1.012 or thereabouts.

“I don't think I've had anything get down to 1.006 …” Yeah, I was a bit shocked that this batch came down that low. This was my first time using Wyeast 1469; that strain must be able to metabolize all kinds of sugars including maltose and maltotriose.

I do routinely get down to 1.010 using Breiss Pilsen DME with an assortment of yeast strains; starting gravities of around 1.050 and above. In my IPAs I routinely go from 1.062 to 1.010 even when adding 1 lb. of crystal (using US-05).

Cheers!

9

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: yeast starter temperature and gravity

« on: February 06, 2013, 12:06:01 PM »

Below is from Jamil Zainasheff’s article Making a Starter (Zymurgy March/April 2007).

Q: IF I’M MAKING A HIGH GRAVITY BEER, SHOULDN’T I MAKE A HIGH GRAVITY STARTER SO THE YEAST BECOME ACCLIMATED?

No. In general, starter wort should be between 1.020 and 1.040 (5–10 °P). Lower gravity starters are easier on the yeast, but result in less growth. High gravity starters result in more growth, but are more stressful for the yeast. Logsdon says, “Generally, you’d use the lower end of that range [1.020 SG, 5 °P] for coming off a plate or slant or very old yeast. Yeast don’t get used to a high gravity environment, and the high osmotic pressure can really stress the yeast.”


I would recommend that you download the article; lots of good information in there.


Cheers!

10

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lager diacetyl rest...now what?

« on: February 06, 2013, 11:49:39 AM »

The topic of whether to cold crash or not is an interesting topic. Bill Pierce wrote an article in BYO (Mar/Apr 2006 issue) entitled: The Lowdown on Lagering: Advanced Brewing. In that article:

“Some brewing texts recommend slowly reducing the temperature by no more than 5 °F (3 °C) per day until the temperature is at the desired setting for lagering. However, many homebrewers ignore this advice and achieve excellent results. There is agreement that in order to achieve the maximum effect the lagering needs to be done cold, with the temperature no more than 40 °F (5 °C). Many commercial breweries lager at nearly freezing temperatures, in the 32–34 °F (0–1 °C) range.”

So, in my homebrewing I have done the slowly reducing temperature method and I have also cold crashed. In both cases the beers have turned out just fine. I agree 100% with Bill concerning: “However, many homebrewers ignore this advice and achieve excellent results.”

As regards the topic of how long to lager, Bill writes in his article:

“For medium to high-gravity beers, Greg Noonan — brewpub owner and author of “New Brewing Lager Beer” (1996, Brewers Publications) — recommends 7–12 days per each 2 °Plato of original gravity. (One degree Plato is roughly equal to 4 specific gravity “points.”). For lower gravity lagers the time is reduced to 3–7 days. According to those guidelines, a 1.064 O.G. German bock should be lagered for 56–96 days, while a 1.040 American lager would be lagered 15–35 days.”

I personally utilize the ‘rule’ of 7 days for each 2° Plato for lagering my homebrewed beers.

I would recommend that the OP download Bill’s article since it is a very helpful article.

Cheers!

11

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Add Extract DURING a Mini-Mash to use the Enzymes?

« on: February 06, 2013, 11:29:27 AM »

. . . . .  However, I also know that the various extracts in the market today have different attenuability depending on which manufacturer, i.e., some extracts won't ferment down below 1.018, no matter what you do or how much simple sugar or adjuncts you add or whatever. . . . . .

I'm not sure I get that part.  I know there used to be extract brands like Laaglander that were significantly less fermentable than others.  But I haven't come accross anything like Laaglander, or any extract that would finish at or near 1.018 if the beer didn't start above 1.076.  I find extracts from Briess, Muntons, and a bunch of the online supply houses to predictably fermentable.  Have you had fermentability issues with specific brands of extracts?

It has been my consistent personal experience that malt extracts from Williams Brewing are not very fermentable; in particular German Gold and German Pils. Those extracts routinely result in beers with a final gravity around 1.020. Those extracts make tasty beers but you have to accept that they will also be beers with body.

Cheers!

12

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Don't make yeast starters from dry yeast? WTF?

« on: February 05, 2013, 12:32:42 PM »

I didn't see anyone bring up the main issue (in my opinion). Which is if you make starter with dry yeast, you'll kill about 50-60% of them right off the bat. It is better to rehydrate dry yeast in warm water (35-40*C - 95-104*F) for 15-20 min and then gradually cool and add to wort or starter. This has to do with the fact that dried cells have damaged membranes and need time to rebuild them, "patch the holes", resume membrane transport control, etc. Otherwise they have no control as to what goes in or out of cells. That happens fairly quickly, but still takes a few minutes. Temperature also plays a role. Rehydrating in cool water ~60*F will usually kill about a half of them. Now if you put dry yeast into a starter, the relatively high sugar concentration (yes, even 1.030 is high relative to dry yeast) and hops (if any) will destroy a lot of cells so essentially you'll be raising the starter to get back up to the number of cells that was there to begin with.
Another thing is that dry yeast packets contain approx 200 billion cells, and if you put directly into wort and kill half of them in doing so, there will still be enough cells left to normally ferment your average beer.

I think you made an excellent point. Making a starter with dry yeast is indeed detrimental since a lot of the yeast cells will be killed in the process!

Cheers!

13

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Why does all my beer taste the same?

« on: February 05, 2013, 11:16:17 AM »

I just read the title of “Why does all my beer taste the same?” and the first thought that popped into my mind was: I bet he is using the same yeast strain. It is not too uncommon to go the a brewpub and several of the beers will taste similar (e.g., a Blonde Ale and a light Amber Ale for example). It is common for a brewpub to have a ‘house’ yeast for their ales and consequently unless there is a substantial difference in the grist of their beers they will taste similar.

Cheers!

14

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Add Extract DURING a Mini-Mash to use the Enzymes?

« on: February 05, 2013, 11:10:52 AM »

If you are looking for a dry beer I would highly recommend that you use Briess Pilsen DME. That extract is extremely fermentable! I don’t think you will even need to employ your mashing technique if you use this extract. Last spring I brewed a Bitter Ale with Briess Pilsen DME and ½ lb. of British Crystal Malt (and Wyeast 1469). The OG was 1.050 and the FG was 1.006.

Cheers!

15

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing / Re: Questions about using corn meal

« on: February 05, 2013, 11:02:42 AM »

I wonder about any flavor differences with corn meal instead of whole or flaked corn.

George Fix (a long ago beer writer) wrote an article entitled: CAP - Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers. Within that article he wrote:

“The primary feature that separates this beer from all-malt continental lagers is the use of flaked maize, an unmalted cereal grain. The flakes are hardly a cheap malt substitute. Indeed, they typically cost two to three times more than domestic malt, and they are even more expensive than premium imported malts. What one gets with this specialty grain is extra strength without the satiating effects of a high-gravity beer. Alcohol by itself is essentially tasteless. Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer. The chief advantage that flakes have over corn grits or rice is that, unlike the latter, flakes do not require cooking at boiling temperatures to achieve gelatinization. Many feel that this is the key to the flakes' desirable flavoring (2).”

So, George Fix appears to be of the opinion that flaked maize has “desirable flavoring”.

Cheers!

If by desireable he meant less flavor, then yes.

In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.

It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.

“If by desirable he meant less flavor, then yes.” I didn’t interpret it that way since in that paragraph George Fix made mention of: “Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer.” So, I think that George Fix thinks that desirable flavor = more (or better) flavor.

“In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.” Well, some of the regional brewers have cereal cookers. I saw the cereal cooker at Spoetzl (Shiner) Brewery when I took a tour. I would guess that on the commercial brewery scale that corn grits would be cheaper (from a material perspective) than flaked maize. As a homebrewer, I think that flaked maize is not cheap at $1.75 per lb. (as compared to $1.25 for 6-row malt).

“It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.” That would indeed be a good experiment!

Cheers!