Messages

1696

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 03, 2012, 01:07:25 PM »

One of the things I really enjoy about homebrewing is being able to brew to taste, not to style, and being able to try a lot of different flavor combinations. I think the attitude with craft beer is changing, and I'm seeing a lot more small batch, one-off brews from breweries, but the bread and butter is the "regular" lineup. I think beer drinkers in general expect a lot of consistency from one batch to the next. Wine drinkers seem to enjoy the fact that different vintages taste different.

Ideally I'd like to have a brewery that only makes small-batch, one-off beers and gets like $40 a bottle for them, but ideally I'd have a draft system built into my rocket car. I'm not holding my breath for either one.

1697

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Saison temperature advice. To Heat or Not To Heat

« on: March 03, 2012, 10:29:19 AM »

In looking at different resources for mead making (which involves wine yeast) I came across a thread talking about how saison yeasts (probably derived from wine yeasts) could excessively lower pH during fermentation. This could be a reason why saisons can plow through fermentation quickly up to a point, then take a long time to finish.

So if you have a pH meter, I'd check. The closer the pH is to 3 the slower the ferment will be. I made a pre-soured Berliner Weisse pitched onto a whole yeast cake that only got about 50% apparent attenuation, because the pH was under 3.

1698

Other Fermentables / Re: Kris England's 2008 NHC Mead presentation

« on: March 03, 2012, 09:57:03 AM »

Cool, thanks Denny! All the ones I found sent me here: http://www.ahaconference.org/presentations/2008/KrisEngland_NHC.pdf

1699

Other Fermentables / Kris England's 2008 NHC Mead presentation

« on: March 03, 2012, 08:34:57 AM »

Does anyone have a copy of this they could post? All of the links I've found are broken.

1700

Other Fermentables / Re: Kolsch Yeast for Cider?

« on: March 02, 2012, 08:08:38 PM »

FWIW I really like t-58 for ciders. It gives a nice spicy/clovey character like hot spiced apple cider.

1701

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 02, 2012, 07:46:10 PM »

I'm a very recent mead enthusiast. Schlafly Brewing in St Louis made a sparkling mead for their taproom. AFAIK it was just a one-off thing, but it was really, really good. Mead doesn't have to taste like cheap white wine, but it usually does. The mead world just needs some beer brewers to show them how it's done. That's part of why I think selling a good mead might be a relatively untapped market, whereas good beer is fairly abundant and doesn't sell for much.

The biggest downside would be having to have a lot more cellaring space for all the stuff while it ages.

1702

Wood/Casks / Re: Possible barrel source for people

« on: March 02, 2012, 07:40:19 PM »

Would anyone else be interested in their specialty oak options? If I find enough people to split a bag up with, I could order it and divide it up. I really don't need 40lbs of chips or cubes all by myself.

1703

Wood/Casks / Possible barrel source for people

« on: March 02, 2012, 05:16:10 PM »

Has anyone seen this place?
http://www.iscbarrels.com/

They're located maybe 10 miles down the road from me. They don't allow local pickup, otherwise I'd probably own one of these already. Not sure how much freight would be, but the barrels are $133 for plain charred, and $260 for heavy toast + char. They're geared toward distillers, but they'd probably make good beer barrels too.

Their sister company sells super fancy oak alternatives, but they only come in 40lb bags
http://www.oaksolutionsgroup.com/

The chips that caught my eye were the specially toasted ones that were labeled, "High Spice, High Mocha, High Vanilla." they also have a few other oak options I've never heard of before.

1704

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 02, 2012, 04:55:34 PM »

I've been crunching more numbers, and reading up on liquor laws in Missouri. Thanks to direct-to-consumer wine shipping laws, a 2bbl nano-meadery would be between 2-7x more profitable (depending on how much I could sell direct and how much wholesale) than a 3bbl nanobrewery. It would also require a lot less time and effort brewing, and a lot less equipment.

1705

Ingredients / Re: Besides more alcohol, what exactly does honey contribute?

« on: March 02, 2012, 09:00:54 AM »

I'd use the honey for mead. I had a dry sparkling mead the other day at the Schlafly Taproom. It was awesome. All the other mead I've had tasted like awful white wine, but apparently mead doesn't have to suck. I'm planning on making some this summer. 

1706

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 02, 2012, 06:00:45 AM »

The logistics of selling 750 pints in-house at a taproom would depend a lot on location. A lot of people don't like to drink a lot without eating something, and a lot people don't like to drink a lot and then drive home (far too many probably do). If your taproom is open 30 hours a week, you'd need to sell 25 pints/hour to sell 3bbl in a week. You'd probably always need about a dozen people in your taproom to make that work. You'd probably need capacity for two or three times that during peak business. Serving and seating that many becomes an issue at that point, and a 3bbl system in a brewpub/restaurant starts to make a lot more sense.

Great Divide taproom in Denver was crazy busy on ballgame nights because it was walking distance from the field, but a lot of the time there are only one or two people drinking there.

1707

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 01, 2012, 08:16:16 PM »

Just be aware that you will most likely need to brew on at least a 3 bbl scale to make any money to compensate your time.

Major, how big is your system? I've been crunching the numbers for a 3bbl system, and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how guys make any money on a 3bbl system. It looks like you could break even, which would be fine for what I'm wanting to do, but I'm having a hard time seeing how some brewers can support themselves on systems that small. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic?

1708

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Poll: Do you use a secondary fermentation

« on: March 01, 2012, 11:50:42 AM »

I'll still use one occasionally if I'm going to let a big beer that I'm planning on bottling bulk age for several months or more.  Other than that it's always 2-3 weeks in the primary and then into the keg.  When I dry hop I do it in a bag in the keg.

Just do what Tygo says.

1709

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 01, 2012, 11:43:16 AM »

Can't recall if this was mentioned yet, but consider going the Brewer's Guild Program. 

I would love to do that program, but at this point it's cost-prohibitive. We would have to hire at least a full time and part time employee, or two full time people, to replace me at our current business for 6 months. I think it might be cheaper to hire an out-of-work brewer to train me, as Sean suggested.

If there ends up being enough time between when we sell this place and buy the brewpub, the program might be feasible. Or maybe another tornado will come through and wipe out our whole operation. Then I'd have plenty of free time.

1710

Going Pro / Re: How hard is it to be a pro brewer?

« on: March 01, 2012, 09:50:45 AM »

I studied audio engineering in college before I switched programs. I knew a lot of people graduating ahead of me with plenty of skill and talent who couldn't find jobs. Even internships were hard to impossible without being friends with someone who owned a studio. One of my friends told me to just drop out and spend my tuition money on my own studio, because he learned more in one year working for himself than he did in four years in school.

When I got interested in brewing, I ran into a similar situation with brewers. Even when I lived in Denver, I couldn't find breweries who were willing to take on interns or volunteers. Most of the breweries I talked to either had their friends volunteering already, or didn't want to deal with the hassle of volunteers. Like in audio, I think brewers are looking at the kids trying to get started and thinking about how that'll slice into their piece of pie, so I don't blame them for not training new people.

I know finding a way into the brewing industry is something a lot of people struggle with, even people with brewing degrees and lots of internship experience. If nepotism and money can get me into the brewing industry, I'll take it.