Messages

901

All Grain Brewing / Re: Stupid high gravity brew

« on: July 26, 2012, 09:19:34 am »

I've got the first round in the fermentor now. I had a yeast cake left over from a Dubbel, so I'm using that instead of trying to build up a regular starter. It's a blend of Ardennes (3522) and T-58. Avery has tweaked their recipe since I started thinking about this, so their OG is lower now.

Depending on my actual volume and gravity of stage two, I'll adjust the volume and gravity in stage 3 to target 30L with a cumulative gravity of 1.135. I'll be splitting that in half to age it. I had a version called "meph addict" at the Avery tap room years ago where they dumped a pound of coffee into a keg of Mephistopheles, so I'll age 1/2 on oak, and 1/2 on oak with coffee beans.

Here's my basic plan:

Stage 1 (completed)
Size: 11L
OG: 1.073

2kg Floor-malted pils
400g Aromatic
400g Special B
200g Carafa II
200g Black Barley

50g Magnum (10%) @ -60min

1tbsp yeast energizer

Stage 2:
Size: 17L
OG: 1.105

7kg F-M pils
500g Black barley
400g Carafa II

100g Magnum (10%) @-60min

1tbsp yeast energizer

Add yeast cake from tripel that's currently fermenting

Stage 3:
Size: TBD
OG: TBD

50% Turbinado
50% Dextrose

902

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Fermentation Temps

« on: July 25, 2012, 09:43:27 am »

If that's the case, why would raising the temp (the recommendation for finishing most saison fermentations) work?

I think there's an obvious correlation between high ferment temps and high yeast activity. Bamforth talked about any 10*C rise in temp doubles the activity of bacteria. We know low pH inhibits yeast activity. We know increasing temp increases yeast activity. I'm just saying raising the temp might achieve our attenuation goals without addressing the cause of the inhibited activity, but without detailed notes of fermentation pH it's just a WAG.

Even if I'm right, you'd still need to weigh the pros and cons of each method to achieve your goals. Higher temp means faster oxidation and increased fusel production. A heavy hand when adding bases can result in unpleasant mineral flavors.

Wine yeasts can also have dramatically different nitrogen needs. Wort contains a lot of FAN so brewers don't really care about this, although wine yeast generally does better with staggered nitrogen additions, instead of a lot upfront. Maybe Saison yeasts are crapping out early because of FAN deficiency?

903

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Fermentation Temps

« on: July 25, 2012, 09:26:57 am »

So maybe a tiny bit of bicarbonate at a key time (before it actually stalls) might help avoid this problem?

The easiest thing to do would be to rouse and degas once it's been fermenting for a few days. I've read stirring in a low-gravity wort decreases ester formation. CO2 in solution = carbonic acid. But CO2 in solution doesn't explain all the pH variation I've noticed in mead fermentation.

I use a 2N caustic potash solution when making mead. I've definitely noticed a correlation between the worst stallers and the biggest acidifiers. I would worry about using bicarbonate because it's such a weak base you might get some off-flavors with too much of it. A little bit of slaked lime would be a better way to go if you don't have food-grade KOH. But that's assuming you've been monitoring pH and can dose it with the proper amount. You also need a plan for when you over-do the base addition and need to add some acid to brighten it up once fermentation is done.

904

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Fermentation Temps

« on: July 25, 2012, 09:09:27 am »

PH can drop dramatically during fermentation. Some yeast make pH drop more than others. I haven't done enough experiments to confirm this, but my WAG is that some Saison strains stall out because they drop the pH too low before they can finish fermenting. This phenomena is something I've noticed when making mead with different wine yeasts. Since some Saison strains may be directly descended from wine strains, this may be an issue.

Has anyone using those strains kept notes about pH during ferment?

905

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??

« on: July 24, 2012, 07:37:06 pm »

The concept of a pH buffer is chemically valid, but that doesn't mean it makes good beer.

No one is arguing buffers don't exist, only that no one with a pH meter has ever seen "5.2 mash stabilizer" buffer a mash to a pH of 5.2.

906

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Flanders Red fermentation

« on: July 24, 2012, 01:34:57 pm »

This doesn't really help you now, but I'd look into the fast lacto method of making sour beers. A lot of people say you need extended aging, but with the fast lacto method I've made sours better than many commercial sours, though not better than the best commercial sours. You can dial in the acidity really well with that method. I've had some homebrewed sours that went way past "sour" to the point where they were hard to drink.

Basically, you can make a clean sour this way in about one or two days longer than a "normal" beer, and if you want to use Brett that cuts the time down to about 2-3 months, vs 12-18 months for "traditional" souring.

907

Other Fermentables / Re: How'd mead and cider get to be part of a beer organization.

« on: July 24, 2012, 10:02:16 am »

I don't know about "shouldn't be allowed" but at the very least a judge should recognize their preferences and not judge a category they don't feel good about.  For example, the reason I was judging IPA that day was because I'd originally been assigned to judge wheat beers, which I don't care for at all.  I had asked to be reassigned to a category I was more comfortable with.

I just meant, as an organizer you should try to keep in mind the limits of your judges' abilities and preferences to the best your abilities. I'm sure that's not always practical, and you may not always have enough of the right kinds of judges, or judges may not tell the truth about their prejudices.

908

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Sour Worting

« on: July 24, 2012, 09:53:46 am »

That is really weird. I've never had a sour wort that smelled like anything but sauerkraut. I remember reading something about how the yeast-lab Brett strains don't come with very many cells, compared to a Sacc. yeast. I suspect your Lacto culture was just too small to out-compete the other bugs. One of the benefits to using a starter is you can smell/taste it before you use it to make sure your bugs are working correctly.

909

Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Massive haul from trip to CO

« on: July 24, 2012, 09:49:17 am »

I used to work a few miles from Dry Dock. My favorite "microbrewery" in CO for sure. I'd pick up some brew supplies at the Brew Hut next door, then have a few pints.

910

All Grain Brewing / Re: Decocting a Pils

« on: July 24, 2012, 05:14:01 am »

Whatever calculator or formula you use, pull 25% extra just to be sure. You should also keep some boiling water on hand too. I think the issue for my setup is that my mash is cooling while I'm bringing the decoction up to boiling, so by the time my decoction is done boiling my mash temp is too low to hit my new target. I use an Igloo cooler for my MLT.

911

Other Fermentables / Re: How'd mead and cider get to be part of a beer organization.

« on: July 23, 2012, 04:35:30 pm »

The other judge and I made him go through the guidelines step by step with us and he finally admitted that the beer we liked was the winner. 

I think it's really cool you stood up to him and made him go "by the book." The easy thing to do in those situations is to avoid confrontation and just go along with whatever the pushy guy wants.

I don't understand why people even want to be judges if they hate certain beer styles. If you only love Belgian beers and despise everything else, that's cool, but you should only be allowed to judge Belgian beer contests.

912

All Grain Brewing / Re: Skimming foam

« on: July 23, 2012, 03:33:38 pm »

Since I FWH about 80% of my batches, I obviously think it does.

If I remember correctly from your results on the FWH experiment, the feedback was kind of all over the map, with no clear preference or effect on the finished beer. I don't have your slides from the NHC presentation on my work computer, so what convinced you that it made a difference?

913

Ingredients / Re: 100% Wheat Malt

« on: July 23, 2012, 03:29:32 pm »

I'm pretty OCD when it comes to my grist. If you condition wheat malt really well and crush it 3 times, you can keep the "exterior" of the wheat kernels mostly intact while pulverizing the insides. I do this whenever I use a large amount of wheat and haven't noticed any difference in run-off between those and my all-barley mashes.

914

All Grain Brewing / Re: Skimming foam

« on: July 23, 2012, 03:18:27 pm »

I'm a skimmer. We all have stupid stuff we do for no particular reason. Skimming is one of mine.

915

All Grain Brewing / Re: Decocting a Pils

« on: July 23, 2012, 02:15:24 pm »

How important is the sacc. rest in the decoction? I thought the grain bill of a pils had enough enzymes so why not go straight to boiling?

Here's an extreme example: Kris England's Kesselmaisch. Basically, you boil all the grain in the mash, leaving only a thin portion of mash liquid behind. I've tried this, and it took for-freaking-ever to get decent conversion, which didn't happen even with a 2 hour mash.

Theoretically, enough enzymes should be left in the dunnmaisch portion to convert the liberated starches, but in my case it wasn't enough. I threw in another pound or two of base malt and it converted within a reasonable timeframe (30-45min, IIRC, it was a few years ago I did this). That was a long brew day, and a PITA, so now I always stop for sacc. rests on all my decoctions.

I think Kris England is a smart guy and great brewer, but also kind of crazy. His skill level is so far above the rest of us I think he needs a "Kids, don't try this at home" warning on a lot of his advice.