Messages

61

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: I am new to lager

« on: December 16, 2011, 07:19:46 am »

I brewed my first lager on Saturday.  I made a starter on Friday evening (WLP833)...just under a gallon.  By the time I was done my batch on Saturday there was still no activity in my starter.  Fearing it was dead I went to my brew shop and bought a vial of White Labs WLP800.  I had to go ahead and just pitch that vial, knowing that I was probably under-pitching.  I cooled the wort down to about 62 degrees F.  Pitched the yeast which was probably about 70 degrees F.  I am slowly letting it come up to 70 degrees F until I see activity and then was going to ramp it back down in temp.  

My question is:  Does it take a long time for fermentation to start in lager yeasts?  My ales don't take more than 8-12 hours to start rolling.  I typically make my ale starters 1-2 days before and they are rolling in a few hours.  Should I be seeing any activity?  Is there anything I can do to save my lager?

Lagers are a difficult beast.  IMO, they take more work, more resources and definitely more time than ales.  I imagine that is (partly) why the craft explosion is centered around ales.  I highly recommend scrolling through the pages of the Jamil Show on the Brewing Network and listen to the podcasts on the lagers: light lagers, pilsners, dark lagers and bocks.  Jamil and Plise are great lager brewers and they go into great detail on their methods for making great lagers. 

Here is the link: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show

62

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Yeast Starter Temp Question

« on: December 16, 2011, 07:10:56 am »

If you are going to settle the yeast and dump the residual wort/beer/liquid, then the temperature does not matter.  In fact, the warmer it is, the faster the yeast will grow.  However, it sounds like you are fermenting an ale really cold (60-62F), likely to suppress ester formation and make it very clean.  If you are going to dump the whole starter in without settling the yeast, then I would definitely make the starter at your ferment temp or even 1-2F cooler.  

63

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: First time using washed yeast/Any contamination worys?

« on: December 16, 2011, 07:06:07 am »

You can also use a water purifying tablet to wash the yeast and kill most of the bacteria present.  I have never done that personally, but it is referenced in some peoples' processes.

Are you referring to Campden tablets (sodium metabisulfite)?  These are used to kill bacteria and wild yeast.  In wine and cider making these are used to completely halt fermentation even with Sacc.  I have never tried using Campden in my starter to wash them, as it seems counterproductive to use a compound that kills yeast to purify your yeast and eventually make a starter. 

If someone has more experience with this, then I would be interested in hearing your experiences. 

64

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lacto Starter

« on: December 15, 2011, 05:00:59 pm »

Remember, bugs replicate every ~30 minutes, whereas yeast replicate every  ~8 hours (on average, of course).  You get plenty of growth with bacteria in just 24 hours. 

That holds for e coli and probably some other bugs, but for lactobacillus it's more like 2-3 hours at best (depending on your conditions).  I agree though, lots of growth in 24 hours.

If you make your bug cultures at blood temperature (37C) or warmer, then you will get closer to the 30-45 minute estimate.  I think someone already posted something relative to these temperatures in their protocol above.  However, if you are simply making a starter in your cool basement, then you are right and you probably will be closer to 2 hours per replication. 

65

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Lacto Starter

« on: December 15, 2011, 07:35:24 am »

To answer you original question, time and refrigeration is all you can really do to settle a lacto starter.

However...

I decanted a sour pack into 500 ml of wort and put it on a stir plate for 24 hours.  Since the starter wort was simple and the same gravity as my Berlinerweisse, I just pitched the whole thing into the fermenter.  After 24 hours on the stir plate, the starter smelled amazing.  All the sour flavors and aromas that were created in the starter, I definitely wanted everything in my beer.  Remember, bugs replicate every ~30 minutes, whereas yeast replicate every  ~8 hours (on average, of course).  You get plenty of growth with bacteria in just 24 hours. 

I think it is more important to get the bugs ramped up and pitch them cranking than it is to increase the cell counts via the traditional yeast starter methods.

66

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Brewing a Maibock......

« on: December 15, 2011, 07:26:50 am »

You can also do two rounds of a starter as well.  Let the yeast go 24 hours, chill on Friday.  Add fresh wort on Saturday and let go 24 hours, then chill on Sunday.  Decant your liquid and pitch into your beer on Monday.  If you are worried about cell counts, then make your starter with two vials or packs to begin with. 

67

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: First time with Brett

« on: December 14, 2011, 05:45:55 am »

When pitching Sacc into beer to clean it up or start a stalled ferment, you generally have to get it cranking first.  The combination of alcohol, low nutrienst, no oxygen, etc. etc. makes it so it needs a little help first to get going.  When you pitch Brett after primary fermentation is complete, do you need to treat it like adding more Sacc or can you pitch it straight from the tube into nearly finished beer?

68

All Grain Brewing / Re: FLOW RATE INTO BOIL KETTLE

« on: December 13, 2011, 01:47:04 pm »

I, too, like the one hour rule.  Since I run off 7 gallons into my brew kettle in 1 hour, this equates to 1.17 gallons every 10 minutes.  I have a mark at 2 gallons, 4 gallon and 6 gallons in my kettle to gauge volumes.  Know the volumes at certain points in your kettle (like a valve, rivet, etc.) and you can keep a pretty accurate estimate of how fast you are flowing into the boil kettle. 

69

All Grain Brewing / Re: Humdinger Attenuation Issue

« on: December 13, 2011, 01:40:56 pm »

Are you strictly using a refractometer?  If you are, then remember that those are only accurate using malt.  The ethanol in the beer throws off the readings.  There are many different calculators out there to convert Brix to specific gravity after fermentation, but none are precisely accurate.  I had one tell me my English mild was 1.004 based on the conversion from Brix, but when I put it in an actual hydrometer it read 1.012. 

70

All Grain Brewing / Re: Mash thickness using a RIMS

« on: December 13, 2011, 09:33:17 am »

I worried about this too with my system, as it holds 2 gallons under the false bottom.  However, I don't feel that the quality of the beer is any different than when I used a bazookah screen and less total water. 

The main concern, to me, about higher liquid to grain ratios manifests in the pH.  The grain supplies the organic acids and the water supplies the calcium and alkalinity.  If you have a lower total volume of water, then the available alkalinity is less and easily consumed.  If you have to use more water, then there is more residual alkalinity to impact pH.  Unless you have very alkaline water, this is a minor problem, maybe only 0.1 pH units.  However, if you have moderate to high alkalinity, then the pH could be off (basic) by 0.2-0.4, which could put you in the 5.8 pH range and enzyme activity could be reduced.  You can either add a little acid to correct or simply give the enzymes a little more time to work.  If making dark beers with dark kilned, acidic grains, then you probably won't ever notice.

71

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale Yeast

« on: December 11, 2011, 06:18:31 am »

Just repitched some WLP028 into a scottish 80.  After 36 hours @ 64 F, I have slightly over 3" of krausen.  This stuff really rips.  Interestingly though, I do not find it to be very flocculant.  In the starter, it never forms visible clumps of cells and in the carboy, it takes a good 2 weeks of cold crashing to get all of the cells out of suspension.  This stuff acts more like an alt or lager strain, IMO. 

72

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: First time using washed yeast/Any contamination worys?

« on: December 11, 2011, 06:12:39 am »

What's your experience with using washed yeast?  Any problems?

My experience is that it produces great beer and saves me money.  However, I follow a fairly rigid aseptic technique.  I autoclave bottles and flasks at work, and if I need something on short notice I use boiling water to sanitize before using.  I work over a strong flame (torch flame) to create an area of uplifting air where bacteria cannot settle.  My washing water has been autoclaved or at least boiled for 15 minutes, then cooled to the same temperature as the yeast before I wash it.  The area where I work is clean and I have sprayed 70% ethanol over the area.  Caps, threads, bottles tops - everything gets hit with ethanol before I transfer. 

Sometimes I just leave the yeast cake in beer and don't worry about washing it.  It is a lot less work and there aren't as many opportunities to contaminate it.  I find that yeast stored in beer stays viable longer than yeast washed 3-4 times then stored away.  I believe this is due to introducing oxygen at multiple times and getting the yeast starting to wake up over and over.  If you transfer from the carboy into a jar and put it in the fridge, then the yeast stay dormant and happy.

73

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Yeast Strain Development with Subsequent Generations

« on: December 11, 2011, 05:58:54 am »

It's the precipitation of calcium phosphate that releases the H+ and lowers the pH.  Calcium phosphate forms and precipitates out much more easily than magnesium phosphate.

74

Ingredients / Re: Reading water reports that state "ppm as CaCO3"

« on: December 10, 2011, 04:29:51 pm »

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/drinkingwater/Documents/Drinkingwaterlabs/AlkalinityConversions.pdf

75

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Yeast Strain Development with Subsequent Generations

« on: December 09, 2011, 03:55:43 pm »

Right, I add epsom for a lot of my beers.
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Why do you magnesium sulfate to your beers?