Messages

781

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 23, 2012, 07:08:33 AM »

Chit Malt is essential, it lends that honey like graininess with an amazing head (and NO flaked barley is not the same).

Don't forget proper attenuation, all German beer is dry, with a malty backbone.. Hockurtz can only achieve this for me.

2) for this beer, and also for my Maibocks and O-fests, I've been doing a rest around 130-133F, then infuse up to my sach rest (anywhere from 149 to 155 depending on the beer), then hitting it with a thinnish mash-out decoction.   You think a Hochkurz double decoction will vastly improve on this?  I've done Hochkurz on my last 2 Bo Pils and loved them, but it does take an extra hour or so....

-red

Red,

I would skip the rest at 130 and do a double infusion Hochkurz at 146 and 158-162.  Try that first before going all out on the decoction..... 

Dave

782

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Barley Crusher

« on: June 22, 2012, 11:13:08 AM »

I left mine there with great results.  I think the only reason to lower it would be if you want to condition your malt.  Others can comment on that.

Dave

783

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 22, 2012, 10:59:00 AM »

Lagering on the primary yeast gives good results too.  This is something that I just started doing.  I made a  Vienna lager with WLP830 some time ago, lagered it for about six weeks on the primary yeast and it was crystal clear going into the keg.  The flavor is super clean as well.

I've been meaning to try that and have not gotten around to it.  I transfer to keg and lager.  I don't worry too much about getting some yeast in there, but it's not the same as leaving it on the cake.

784

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 22, 2012, 09:28:47 AM »

Bryan,

Thanks for the recipe!  Already copied and converting in to BeerTools.  May have to make it this weekend......

Much of what I've been pontificating in this thread I learned from you on the Midwest Forum......

Dave

785

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 22, 2012, 08:01:30 AM »

+1.  Good thread.  Keep em coming!

I should also clarify why I think water is first.  I think the assumtion is made that one is using treated RO or decent brewing water.  That being the case, then water would fall on my list of contributing factors.  But since water is the main ingredient in beer, I put it as #1.  You cannot make an authentic Bohemian Pilsner with super hard water just as you cannot make a authentic Dortmunder with super soft water.  And crappy water cannot make any good beer!   

Dave

786

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 22, 2012, 05:46:35 AM »

Water, yeast, ingredients, process.

Edit:  IF you want an authentic German lager.  You can make great beer with different water types, yeast, grains, hops, etc.  It will just not be authentic.

Dave

787

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 12:51:47 PM »

I would think that process would be bottom of the list, but I'm still finding that for myself.

I just didn't perceive enough of a benefit to justify doing them regularly.

+1 to that. And I agree that process is at the bottom of the list after water (for Light Lagers), yeast and ingredients. 

I seriously wish we could have this discussion over the two Spaten clones in my basement.  The difference just the yeast made is amazing!

Dave

788

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 12:01:56 PM »

Ron Price brewed a German pils that was one of the best lagers I've had, including commerical examples (freshness helps).  Maybe we can coerce him into posting that recipe when he gets back from the NHC.  The German restaurant down the road from my house has Bitburger pils on tap and it is a world of difference from what I've had in bottles.

Definitely!  Would love to try and brew it!

789

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Unplanned open fermentation

« on: June 21, 2012, 12:00:16 PM »

You should be fine.......RDWHAHB!

790

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 11:58:39 AM »

I'm in line with everyone.  That's why I dedicated myself last year to light German Lagers.  I have a chest freezer consistently filled with 4 different lagers at all times.  Oops, except now as I was on vacation last week.  I'll make that up this weekend.   

Red, I'll PM you a few of my favorites but they are simple recipes with slight variations.

gsandel, agreed water will not effect an Oktoberfest nearly as much as a Pilsner.  But you should try a decoction and taste the malt quality and carmelization you get.

beersk, you get such a different beer with a Hockhurz mash versus single infusion at say 152.  This is what gives the German beers their unmistakable malt profile.  Give it a shot!

FWIW all....  

Dave

791

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 10:24:21 AM »

I love Spaten.  Wish I could find it on tap....

792

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 09:37:52 AM »

I would definitely agree for a Bohemian Pilsner, a little less for a German Pils, but not so much for a Dortmunder and a Munich Helles should really not have any hop aroma.

Disclaimer:  As far as I have read.....

Dave

793

Equipment and Software / Conical Fermenters

« on: June 21, 2012, 09:27:34 AM »

I saw one on Craig's List and it got me wondering.  What are all the pros and are there any cons about using a conical?  One con is it will not fit in my chest freezer so I cannot make lagers with it.  But I know little about all of the pros.  So what better place to hear about why I should buy it, right!

Can the forum gurus please make a case for me so I can make a case to my wife?  What are the advantages of the conical?

Dave

794

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 09:18:35 AM »

+1.  I forgot to mention adjusting the water, pitching a huge starter and the mash PH. 

I started to boil my strike water to get the bicarb out of it.  If I make a Dortmunder, I will leave the bicarb in.  Do you have your water chemistry?

I now use 4oz of Acidulated Malt to get my mash PH to 5.2-5.3.  It has definitely made a difference. 

The major difference was making a 1G starter and pitching the correct amount of yeast.  I have been saving the diffferent strains, washing it and pitching the entire amount back in.  My hydrometer samples now taste like I could drink the beer now while before, when I was underpitching, you knew it needed some serious lagering time.

Great thread.  I look forward to seeing additional posts as well.  There is always much to learn!

Dave

795

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: That German lager flavor

« on: June 21, 2012, 08:33:41 AM »

Most of it definitely lies in the yeast and ingredients.  But I will not discount the process either.  Most all German breweries perform Hockhurz mashes.  Sac rest at 146-148, Dex rest at 158-160 mash out at 168-172. 

Funny enough, I just made two Spaten clones, one with 2308 Munich Lager and the other with 2206 Bavarian Lager.  The 2206 is much closer to the Spaten, but the 2308 came out with a wonderful malt character.  It's not Spaten, but it's really good!

As for the Octoberfest, you definitely need to perform a decoction mash to get it right.  I perform a triple decoction for this style and use the Wyeast Oktoberfest Blend.  It has pleased the crowd at our mountain Oktoberfest Party every year. 

Finally, you have to use Noble German hops.  Nothing but Hallertau varieties or Tettnanger.

For what it's worth, this is what has worked for me so I'm sticking to it!   

Dave