Messages

691

Ingredients / Re: CDA Carafa Special Use

« on: February 09, 2011, 12:23:52 PM »

The decision to add Carafa at the beginning or end of the mash can be partially answered by looking at your water.  If your brewing water has moderate to high alkalinity, I would recommend adding it at the beginning to help consume the alkalinity.  If the brewing water is low alkalinity (like RO, DI, or rainwater) then you should delay adding the carafa until the end.   

692

All Grain Brewing / Re: Yeah, the 5.2 stuff. Don’t get me started on that.

« on: February 09, 2011, 10:34:28 AM »

There is a little something wrong with the bicarbonate and carbonate levels they report.  I think someone miss-keyed the pH either into their calculator or onto the report.  The reported pH with that alkalinity would provide 64 ppm bicarb and almost no carbonate.  A pH of 9 will give the carb and bicarb results they report.    Minor errors.  Still really good water for brewing.

693

Equipment and Software / Re: Wort chilling

« on: February 07, 2011, 06:30:20 AM »

Thermodynamically, it is best to get the bulk of the heat content out of the wort the way Jeff Gladish does it.  The tap water has plenty of temperature differential from the hot wort to remove a bunch of heat. 

After the wort is cooled to the ~100F range, then switch to the ice cooled chilling.  You will see a substantial reduction in the volume of ice used and the wort will be chilled almost as fast. 

694

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Advise for a Friend

« on: February 06, 2011, 11:02:44 AM »

More yeast is the best alternative, but increasing the wort to a warmer temperature (say 65F) temporarily will help.  This will come at the expense of a little more ester formation.  Once activity is apparent, move back to the normal lager temp.

695

Commercial Beer Reviews / Re: Leinenkugel's Fireside Nut Brown

« on: February 05, 2011, 06:47:41 PM »

I had one on tap from a bar in Milwaukee about 2 years ago.  Initally pleasant, but quickly becomes overpoweringly cloying.  They must have made this one for pansies.  No balance what so ever. 

With another 10 or 15 IBU's, it might be palatable.  In some ways like drinking syrup. 

Ok, it did have a nice malty character and I didn't think the nut flavoring was totally over the top, but maybe because I was distracted by the overwhelming sweetness.  Pass on this one.

This seems to be a signature of Leiny.  Overly sweet beers.  They need to get it a little more balanced. 

696

Ingredients / Re: Identifying hops by smell?

« on: February 05, 2011, 01:04:39 PM »

I love this, like their recipes are award winning and worth being closely coveted. 

Any brewer worth their salt knows that a recipe is only a start.  Good beer is a combination of skills that extend far beyond the recipe. 

Well, I try to frequent my LHBS as much as possible.  I don't have to worry about that firm in the future.  Thanks for the tip.

697

Kegging and Bottling / Re: How many volumes of CO2 can a standard brown bottle safely hold?

« on: February 05, 2011, 10:53:31 AM »

Be very careful.  The pitifully cheap Sam Adams bottles are paper thin and would break in a heartbeat.  I can't blame them for using light bottles since weight costs money to ship.

I used to have cases of the old returnable Budweiser bottles that are very tough.  I haven't bought Pacifico Clara, but I remember it used to come in brown bottles that you could club people to death with.  Tough!  I'd bet that they would easily handle 3 or 4 volumes.

698

All Grain Brewing / Re: Yeah, the 5.2 stuff. Don’t get me started on that.

« on: February 05, 2011, 10:33:09 AM »

I like that designation for lactic acid 'LA88'.  Good short hand that I hadn't seen before.

That stuff was probably calcium phosphate precipitates, but its hard to tell. 

Sparks water is probably pretty good.  Doesn't it come out of Lake Tahoe?  You should have little problem if it does.

699

Ingredients / Re: Check Out Some New Info on Palmer's Speadsheet - HBD

« on: February 05, 2011, 09:01:48 AM »

I too look forward to the Water book. 

John is a pretty studious guy and from what I can gather of Colin, he is a pretty thorough and experimenting brewer.  Unfortunately, I've met far too many professional brewers that have little to no knowledge of water and its effect on brewing and their beers showed it.

I'm hoping that John and Colin are having their book peer-reviewed prior to publishing since it would be a shame to have either of their reputations sullied and the reputation of Brewers Publication sullied by putting out poor work.  This is a tough subject since it crosses many fields.  Water chemists don't typically know anything about brewing and I find that few brewers know much about chemistry.  Then add to that the need for water treatment to bring it all together. 

Homebrewing and Craftbrewing are unique in their need to frequently assess and adjust their brewing water to better suit their upcoming beer.  This differs from the needs of production breweries that brew thousands of barrels of the same beer per year.  Consistency is the key for production brewers and they have little need to evaluate or change their brewing water.  Through trial and error and advanced laboratory analyses, production breweries typically know exactly what adjustments they need for their brewing water.  Homebrewers and Craftbrewers rarely have the tools or knowledge at their disposal to perfect their water and since they often change the beer they brew, they are the ones that need it. 

There is no doubt that this is a tough subject.  Most brewing text books provide a small chapter at best and most of them are still poor.  John and Colin have their work cut out for themselves. 

700

Ingredients / Re: Munich Helles Water Profile--Need Advice

« on: February 05, 2011, 08:41:55 AM »

Kai's information on the Munich profile that he shows on his site is reasonably accurate for the Munich water after it is boiled.  I just posted a lengthy discussion and presentation of the effects of boiling on the resulting hardness and alkalinity of water profiles with high temporary hardness in the Ingredients forum (Decarbonation by Boiling).  

Magnesium carbonate and magnesium chloride are both available from places that sell health supplements.  So you can get food-grade compounds.  I'm not sure about the chemical purity and make up of the magnesium carbonate though.  It exists in several hydrate forms and some say they have differing amounts of magnesium which makes it harder to know how much Mg you're actually adding (even when you're weighing it out).  Magnesium chloride has several hydrate forms, but it seems more typically available in a single form.  

You only need small Mg concentrations for yeast health (5 to 30 ppm), so I don't think its terribly critical to go out of your way to pick up either of the minerals above to perfectly mimic a certain water profile.  But if I were to pick one, it would be the MgCl2.   I agree that recreating the Munich profile is one that could use MgCl2.

701

Ingredients / Decarbonation by Boiling

« on: February 05, 2011, 08:20:28 AM »

The following information was taken from the water knowledge that I will be publishing with my water calculator shortly.  The following presentation on what happens when water is treated by boiling should help brewers understand the process and results.  Enjoy.

Decarbonation by Boiling is a practice that was employed historically and it does reduce alkalinity and calcium (hardness) in water with high Temporary Hardness.  The boiling process drives off carbon dioxide (CO2) that helps keep chalk (CaCO3) soluble in water.  When the CO2 is driven off, the CaCO3 will precipitate out of the water.

This process provides results that can be somewhat similar to performing Lime-Softening.  In my opinion, lime-softening is a less energy intensive and less expensive way to reduce temporary hardness, but it may not reduce alkalinity to the degree that the boiling method can.  
                              
The water is heated to boiling or near-boiling and stirred, splashed, or aerated to help get the CO2 out of the water.  As CO2 leaves the water, CaCO3 precipitates and causes the water to become cloudy.  The heating is ended and the precipitate is allowed to settle quietly to the bottom of the vessel.  The water is then immediately decanted off the sediment and used for brewing.  The water cannot be allowed to sit too long on the sediment or CO2 will again diffuse from the atmosphere into the cooled water and redissolve the CaCO3.  

This process does not reduce the magnesium content since Mg(OH)2 is much more soluble than CaCO3 in water and the CaCO3 precipitates first, leaving the magnesium with the bicarbonate remaining in the water.  
                              
Boiling reduces both bicarbonate and calcium content of the water when performed properly.  The practical limit for the process reduces the bicarbonate content to between 60 and 80 ppm.  Therefore, the quantity of CaCO3 that can be precipitated will be based on the difference between the starting and ending (60 to 80ppm) bicarbonate content.  A reasonable assumption is to use the upper bicarbonate limit for the ending bicarbonate concentration since that allows for more error in the process.  The ending calcium content for the water can be calulated using the following formula:  

Ending Ca (ppm) = Starting Ca (ppm) - ((starting HCO3 (ppm) - ending HCO3 (ppm))/3.05)
                              
The equation above assumes that the water has a high enough calcium concentration to execute the reaction to volatilize the CO2 and precipitate the CaCO3.  An ending calcium concentration that is negative indicates that additional calcium would be required.  If the calcium concentration is not high enough, it will be neccessary to add calcium in the form of Gypsum or Calcium Chloride to achieve the ending 80 ppm bicarbonate concentration.  The decision as to which of these supplemental calcium sources to use should be based on the desire for more sulfate or more chloride in the water.  
                              
A technique to help encourage and speed the precipitation of CaCO3 from the boiled water is to add more Chalk to the water.  The Chalk provides nucleation sites for the precipitating CaCO3 to agglomerate with and form larger flocs that will settle faster.  A teaspoon of Chalk per 5 gallons should be sufficient to improve the settling.  The added Chalk does not dissolve and add to the calcium concentration since it is not soluble in water without CO2.
                                
Examples of the effect of Decarbonation by Boiling are presented in the water profiles below.  The bicarbonate content was assumed to be reduced to 80 ppm and the calcium corresponding to the quantity of removed bicarbonate was also removed.  All other ion concentrations remain as for the original water.  In the case of the Burton and Dortmund profiles, the low original RA and significant reduction in RA with boiling, indicates that those profiles do not need to be treated in this way for brewing.  Typically, water profiles such as Dublin, Edinburgh, London, Munich, and Vienna are suitable for boiling treatment.

Brewing Center   Ca     Mg    Na    SO4    Cl     HCO3

Burton             213     40    25    610    35     80
Dortmund        179     15    40    330    130    80
Dublin              43       4    12     55     19     80
Edinburgh        33      20    55    140    50     80
London            42       6    15     40     38     80
Munich            6        17    4      18      8      80
Vienna            27      15    10     60     15     80


These profiles present the theoretical precipitation of calcium that will occur as the water is decarbonated by boiling.  I'm not sure that I truely believe the really low Ca result for the Munich profile, but the chemistry indicates it is possible. The practical limit for calcium removal using lime softening is about 30 ppm, so I remain skeptical that a 6 ppm Ca result could be attained.
                              
Although the effect of boiling on Temporary Hardness is well documented and understood, the effect of minor water heating is less understood.  Since the solubility of CO2 is inversely proportional to the water's temperature, it follows that minor heating will produce some of the effects of boiling.  Bubbles can often been seen on the side of the kettle as the water heats.  Therefore, a partial reduction in alkalinity and calcium content may occur when heating water with high Temporary Hardness to mashing or sparging temperature if the water is stirred and the bubbles are forced into the atmosphere.   Since precipitation and decanting is not typically performed for mashing and sparge water preparation, the effectiveness of heating on the alkalinity and calcium reduction is probably limited.  As already known for chalk, the precipitated CaCO3 in the water does not readily redissolve in the mash and therefore the heating may provide some minor alkalinity and calcium reduction.  

702

All Grain Brewing / Re: Vienna Lager water profile...

« on: February 04, 2011, 10:36:54 AM »

The BJCP specifically says "moderately hard, carbonate rich water".  It does seem that 80ppm HCO3 fits this bill.

Lennie, you are right.  But, the raw water from Vienna is exactly that...moderately hard, carbonate rich water.  As I point out, brewers still had the capability to alter their water and they did.  The other point to consider is the raw Vienna profile could not produce a good amber colored beer, its far too alkaline.    This revised profile is most likely what the originators of the Vienna style had to work with.

703

All Grain Brewing / Re: Vienna Lager water profile...

« on: February 04, 2011, 09:35:30 AM »

Kai is correct that Lime-Softening is very similar in its results, excepting that if you take the pH during lime softening up to about 11 you will also drop out some magnesium.  That is another possible advantage to lime softening.  I agree that it is a better way than boiling, but I actually don't know when the advent of lime softening was.  I'm pretty sure some of my water treatment text books have that information, but I couldn't find it now.  I'm not sure if Dreher or other brewers at that time would have had that knowledge.

Remember, either of these treatments can only remove the temporary hardness components and not the permanent hardness.  If the water has bicarbonate, its got temporary hardness.  The sulfate and chloride contributes to permanent hardness.

Oh, and I agree with Kai that using the aquarium test kits for GH and KH are perfect for assessing what goes on with either treatment.

704

All Grain Brewing / Re: Rice Hulls?

« on: February 04, 2011, 09:24:10 AM »

The depth of the grain bed and the flow rate have a big effect on the lautering performance.  My compliments to the brewers who can brew high wheat grists without hulls. 

I run a RIMS and its pretty important to have a fairly permeable grist so that my flowrate is good.  Many RIMS and HERMS brewers probably know that the permeability of the grist actually changes during the mash.  It starts out at a lower permeability and you cannot try and push too much wort through the grist for the first 15 minutes or so.  As the conversion and soluablization progresses, the permeability of the grist increases and you can start increasing the flowrate.   Pushing too much flow through the grist can contribute to compacting the mash and possibly producing a stuck mash.

Therefore, I use hulls with high wheat grists or grists with rye.

705

All Grain Brewing / Re: "Lactic" Flavor

« on: February 04, 2011, 09:10:21 AM »

I'm not sure I would go so far as to say no flavor with lactic, but the food grade lactic that we typically use is a pretty clean and one-dimensional flavor in my opinion.  I've grown nice Berliner Weisse cultures and the flavors from that are much richer and complex.  In either case, I agree that lactic acid is one of the cleaner acid flavor producers.