Messages

721

All Grain Brewing / Re: More about water

« on: January 27, 2011, 07:12:09 PM »

Distilled water is always an option for brewing.  Adding important major and minor ions that help promote good mashing performance and fermentation performance is a good idea too.  Even though brewers in Pilsen were able to brew great Pils using water with really low calcium, we now know that calcium is very important to good mash and yeast performance. 

If starting with distilled water, adding gypsum and or calcium chloride to boost the calcium concentration to at least 50 ppm is a good idea. I'm not sure where the notion that sodium is necessary came from, but its not needed except as desirable for flavor impacts.  I'm with Jeff regarding the mention of the Beersmith article.  Although I appreciate their software, I'd say it was safe to say that brewers should not get water knowledge or advice there.  Kai's and Palmer's sites are much better for basic water information. 

Distilled water will work OK for light colored beers, but might produce a lower mash pH and thinner, lower bodied beer as the color increases.  Alkalinity is a necessary evil for brewing darker beers.  Adding alkalinity is a little tougher and that may be a reason why a brewer might want to include some of their tap water in their brewing water. These are nuances that cannot be covered in a quick message.  But as a brewer increases their brewing knowledge, those nuances become more understandable and approachable. 

Understanding what you need for brewing great beer might not be a goal yet, but brewing a good beer is probably a minimum goal for any brewer.  Adding minerals may not necessaryily improve efficiency, but it might make better tasting beer.  Keep doing what your doing and add knowledge with each brew.

722

Yeast and Fermentation / Re: Primary time

« on: January 27, 2011, 01:40:51 PM »

The duration on primary is also influenced by the temperature the beer is being held at.  In you're in a cool region or fermenting in a cool place, then the duration will be longer than when in a warm place. 

723

All Grain Brewing / Re: A simple model for pH buffers

« on: January 27, 2011, 09:02:22 AM »

I have no problem with the ball park sentiment.  +/- 10 ppm on any ion isn't going to be a big deal.  But if the water is going to change much more than that, especially hardness or alkalinity, then having a decent idea of the change will be helpful. 

If you were trying to replicate a previous brew, it would be tough to do with a variable water.  If you're just making beer, then the heck with it.  RDWHAHB

724

All Grain Brewing / Re: A simple model for pH buffers

« on: January 27, 2011, 06:26:30 AM »

One question, are the test kits necessary if I have the report from my municipal supplier? I do realize the reports are averages, and can vary quite a bit by season. Whoops, did I just answer my own question? The test kit would also be useful when using or blending different water.

Yes if your water supply varies, then those aquarium test kits for hardness and alkalinity are pretty nice additions.  They're cheap too. 

Water supplies vary if the supplier gets their water from a variety of groundwater and/or surfacewater sources. 

With the baseline information that is reported by the water supplier, the test kits can help you decide how the present water quality is going to affect your brewing.   

725

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: using bottled water

« on: January 27, 2011, 06:19:39 AM »

I caution the use of Euge's topping off procedure.  Although there is only a small chance of infection, the reason that there is such a low chance is that all municipal water systems in the US have to maintain a disinfection residual in the water lines.  For most places, that means chlorine or chloramine. 

I strongly recommend that removal of these compounds is critical to producing good beer.  So hopefully Euge just failed to mention that he does that.

726

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Do I need a rest?

« on: January 27, 2011, 06:14:56 AM »

I consider Palmer's advice on modern malts to be accurate.  You really don't need to do anything other than a saccharification rest to achieve good results. 

The only time I feel that a brewer should consider a low temp rest is to promote the formation of Ferulic compounds and 4VG for that clove component in German Weizens. 

727

Equipment and Software / Re: dial thermometer

« on: January 26, 2011, 01:14:23 PM »

As long as you don't bend the shaft, these dial thermometers are very durable and repeatable.  You should still plan on calibrating with a known thermometer such as a NIST-traceable thermometer or other really accurate instrument at a temperature in your typical mashing temperature range.  You CANNOT calibrate these dial thermometers accurately by doing the ice-water and boiling water calibration.  They probably won't be reading the right temp at your mashing temp. 

For you homebrew clubs out there, buying a club thermometer that is calibrated is a pretty good thing to have.  Then you can bring it to club meetings or functions and members can bring and calibrate their thermometers.  I just stick all the units in an insulated cup with water heated to the proper temp and start comparing and adjusting.  You can find calibrated units on Ebay frequently for under $100, probably well under that.

728

All Grain Brewing / Re: Adding mineral salts for both flavor and pH adjustment purposes

« on: January 25, 2011, 09:22:46 AM »

Unfortunately, the figure does not disprove what my original contention was.  Possibly I stated it incorrectly. 

The buffer system in the mash prevents the pH from dropping much lower than the low 5 range.   Adding a bunch of calcium or magnesium in order to reduce RA into the negative range has little effect.  That is a good thing. 

Maybe Kai could continue the experiments he presented in that excellent paper and see if my contention is incorrect?  I think that something other than a Ca or Mg vs. phosphate buffer interaction is needed to bring the pH lower than the low 5 range (ie acid). 

The point I'm trying to make is that it appears to me that a normal mash is naturally incapable of dropping below about 5 without adding an external acid.  (PS: I see that some dark cyrstal & roast malts do have enough acidity to drop below 5, but those are used sparingly in a normal mash).

Good work, Kai. 

729

All Grain Brewing / Re: Adding mineral salts for both flavor and pH adjustment purposes

« on: January 25, 2011, 08:58:22 AM »

Kai,

That is an interesting finding, but possibly I'm misunderstanding you.  You're telling me that you're depressing the residual alkalinity to around -400 (this assumes there is maybe 150 ppm HCO3) and the pH continued to drop?  Did the slope of the pH per RA relationship became much shallower around the low 5 range?  I would be surprised to hear that the phosphate buffer system would allow the pH to drop like it does in the upper 5 to 6 range (ie, the slope of that line is the same in the upper range as the low 5 and under range). 

730

All Grain Brewing / Re: A simple model for pH buffers

« on: January 25, 2011, 08:43:21 AM »

The link works, it just takes time.  Give it several minutes.  It must be running from a home computer.

731

All Grain Brewing / Re: A simple model for pH buffers

« on: January 25, 2011, 08:25:28 AM »

I'm with Kai on this issue of brewers using the 5.2 stuff.  With just a little bit of education, a brewer can better accomplish what this product tries to do.  Note that I said 'try to do'.  It is not always successful and some waters cannot be corrected with this product.  

This stuff adds sodium to the mash and that carries over to the finished beer.  Sodium is only desirable in wort at modest concentrations.  Using this product to correct mash pH can lead to some unwelcome taste consequences.  

And as Kai pointed out, this product does not really help a mash stay at a truely desirable pH, it keeps it from moving to a too high range.  Unfortunately, the mash is already compromised at that upper end.   Stay away from snake oil.  Learn how to test your water alkalinity and how to adjust it.  Your beer will be better for it.

With regard to Lennie's quest, read one of AJ's articles on Malt phosphates here:
http://ajdel.wetnewf.org:81/Brewing_articles/Cerevesia/Final_galley

732

Ingredients / Re: Water adjustments

« on: January 24, 2011, 03:49:59 PM »

It looks like this water is fairly well suited to brewing American Ales.  The magnesium content is a little high, but passable.  The sodium, sulfate and chloride levels are kind of steep but not unbrewable.  A moderate dilution of about 50% wouldn't be a bad idea.  That dilution would drop the calcium a bit too low and you might consider adding either CaCl or gypsum depending on the brewing goals.  In general, I would only consider gypsum when brewing a fairly hoppy style since the sulfates are high as is.

If you're brewing a very pale beer, then 0.1 mL of 88% lactic acid per gallon of mash water is suggested to counter the alkalinity.  I'd suggest adding 0.3 grams of CaCl per gallon to bump the calcium back up after dilution. 

This water would do a good job for an American Brown or Amber without much adjustment at all. A little more alkalinity might be needed for a black beer, but I would try it without first. 

Its not a terrible water, but its going to be tough to brew lighter or delicate styles with the high Na, Cl, and SO4.   

733

All Grain Brewing / Re: Adding mineral salts for both flavor and pH adjustment purposes

« on: January 22, 2011, 02:37:12 PM »

I'm finding that residual alkalinity is only a component to understanding and predicting a desirable mash pH.  The beer color versus residual alkalinity recomendations that I've made in the past and many water calculators use, are woefully inadequate. 

It turns out that the variation in grain acidity that Kai deciphered over a year ago is very key to the refinement in our ability to assess what might happen in the mash before we actually brew.  To brewers that don't have pH meters and the time or inclination to fine tune their brewing water, there is the potential that better water calculators can be devised. 

Another thankful property of our brewing grists appears to be its tendency to buffer the over application of either gypsum or calcium chloride and not push mash pH too low.  I've complained in the past about brewers that espouse creating water with negative residual alkalinity.  My research suggests that the mash buffers prevent these mineral additions from pushing pH down.  So, that doesn't matter too much.  If you want to create negative RA brewing water, it is OK, but it doesn't really do anything extra for the mash. 

Mash water chemisty is still very complicated, but hopefully we will move beyond the misinformation that is out there now and devise tools that a regular brewer can apply.  I'm trying and I know there are others.

734

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: High Nitrate levels

« on: January 20, 2011, 09:46:54 AM »

Diluting by half is not near enough.  The Mg is way too high. 

A lot of the hardness is temporary, so softening by boiling is a possibility as is lime-softening.  But that is still going to leave a lot of Ca and Mg in the water. 

Does this water taste gritty when you drink it?  Just kidding.

735

Equipment and Software / Re: Extra magnet for stirplate

« on: January 19, 2011, 03:14:29 PM »

You don't really need a magnet to hold the stir bar.  Just a piece of iron should work...nail, bolt, etc.  It won't be as strong an attraction as another magnet, but I'm assuming your not turning the flask upside down and shaking it.