Messages

751

All Grain Brewing / Re: A simple model for pH buffers

« on: January 25, 2011, 08:25:28 am »

I'm with Kai on this issue of brewers using the 5.2 stuff.  With just a little bit of education, a brewer can better accomplish what this product tries to do.  Note that I said 'try to do'.  It is not always successful and some waters cannot be corrected with this product.  

This stuff adds sodium to the mash and that carries over to the finished beer.  Sodium is only desirable in wort at modest concentrations.  Using this product to correct mash pH can lead to some unwelcome taste consequences.  

And as Kai pointed out, this product does not really help a mash stay at a truely desirable pH, it keeps it from moving to a too high range.  Unfortunately, the mash is already compromised at that upper end.   Stay away from snake oil.  Learn how to test your water alkalinity and how to adjust it.  Your beer will be better for it.

With regard to Lennie's quest, read one of AJ's articles on Malt phosphates here:
http://ajdel.wetnewf.org:81/Brewing_articles/Cerevesia/Final_galley

752

Ingredients / Re: Water adjustments

« on: January 24, 2011, 03:49:59 pm »

It looks like this water is fairly well suited to brewing American Ales.  The magnesium content is a little high, but passable.  The sodium, sulfate and chloride levels are kind of steep but not unbrewable.  A moderate dilution of about 50% wouldn't be a bad idea.  That dilution would drop the calcium a bit too low and you might consider adding either CaCl or gypsum depending on the brewing goals.  In general, I would only consider gypsum when brewing a fairly hoppy style since the sulfates are high as is.

If you're brewing a very pale beer, then 0.1 mL of 88% lactic acid per gallon of mash water is suggested to counter the alkalinity.  I'd suggest adding 0.3 grams of CaCl per gallon to bump the calcium back up after dilution. 

This water would do a good job for an American Brown or Amber without much adjustment at all. A little more alkalinity might be needed for a black beer, but I would try it without first. 

Its not a terrible water, but its going to be tough to brew lighter or delicate styles with the high Na, Cl, and SO4.   

753

All Grain Brewing / Re: Adding mineral salts for both flavor and pH adjustment purposes

« on: January 22, 2011, 02:37:12 pm »

I'm finding that residual alkalinity is only a component to understanding and predicting a desirable mash pH.  The beer color versus residual alkalinity recomendations that I've made in the past and many water calculators use, are woefully inadequate. 

It turns out that the variation in grain acidity that Kai deciphered over a year ago is very key to the refinement in our ability to assess what might happen in the mash before we actually brew.  To brewers that don't have pH meters and the time or inclination to fine tune their brewing water, there is the potential that better water calculators can be devised. 

Another thankful property of our brewing grists appears to be its tendency to buffer the over application of either gypsum or calcium chloride and not push mash pH too low.  I've complained in the past about brewers that espouse creating water with negative residual alkalinity.  My research suggests that the mash buffers prevent these mineral additions from pushing pH down.  So, that doesn't matter too much.  If you want to create negative RA brewing water, it is OK, but it doesn't really do anything extra for the mash. 

Mash water chemisty is still very complicated, but hopefully we will move beyond the misinformation that is out there now and devise tools that a regular brewer can apply.  I'm trying and I know there are others.

754

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: High Nitrate levels

« on: January 20, 2011, 09:46:54 am »

Diluting by half is not near enough.  The Mg is way too high. 

A lot of the hardness is temporary, so softening by boiling is a possibility as is lime-softening.  But that is still going to leave a lot of Ca and Mg in the water. 

Does this water taste gritty when you drink it?  Just kidding.

755

Equipment and Software / Re: Extra magnet for stirplate

« on: January 19, 2011, 03:14:29 pm »

You don't really need a magnet to hold the stir bar.  Just a piece of iron should work...nail, bolt, etc.  It won't be as strong an attraction as another magnet, but I'm assuming your not turning the flask upside down and shaking it.

756

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: High Nitrate levels

« on: January 19, 2011, 01:30:49 pm »

Good info Tom, but only EPA has the authority regarding establishing and enforcing Primary Drinking Water Quality standards.  I'm assuming that EPA relied on the Public Health Service though.  

757

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: High Nitrate levels

« on: January 19, 2011, 01:02:31 pm »

Denny nailed it on the head.  The long-term consumption of high nitrate water could lead to a chronic toxicity for some individuals.  The real consideration here is that the 10 ppm limit based on infant consumption is actually an acute toxicity for them.  They could develop the 'blue baby' syndrome. 

I'm kind of with Tom in that we consume nitrates at times in our food, so it can't be too bad.  I sure like my bacon and sausage!  The 10 ppm limit that is in place is clearly geared to protecting a vulnerable segment of our population.  Better to be safe, but we know that for most people that the limit would be much higher.   

758

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: High Nitrate levels

« on: January 19, 2011, 09:55:19 am »

The reporting from Ward Labs strikes again.  

The Nitrate concentration reported by Ward is given in NO3-N which means nitrate as nitrogen.  To find the true Nitrate concentration in the water using the Ward reported value, you have to multiply their results by 4.43.  That means the nitrate concentration for this water is 44.7 ppm.  The EPA limit for nitrate is 10 ppm.   I'm hoping that Ward has their safe/unsafe flag set at 10/4.43 = 2.25 ppm NO3-N.

The level reported for this water is definitely hazardous to infants since their digestive system doesn't assimilate nitrate like adults.  

The other problem with nitrate in brewing water is that it can be reduced to nitrite which is hazardous to yeast.  

Maybe there is a treatment system in your future.

PS: there are other options for nitrate removal than RO.  If nitrate is the only problem, then there are anionic exchange units that will do the job.  

759

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Water adjustment with extract

« on: January 18, 2011, 12:52:15 pm »

I would expect that the maltster did not do anything to their water to change chloride or sulfate levels.  Why would they and how would they know what a brewer would want to make with that extract. 

There isn't a strong reason that I can think of for the Maltster to add calcium to the mash other than it might be a cheap way for them to achieve their preferred mash pH without other treatment or acid.  I don't think they would necessarily add calcium to provide a brewer that uses distilled water enough calcium content in their finished wort for good yeast performance. 

Too many variables and I would have to believe that they would be looking to avoid paying to add something else to their product that doesn't aid all brewers.

760

All Grain Brewing / Re: Bookend APA Water? Ya

« on: January 18, 2011, 12:44:57 pm »

I'm agreeing with Tom.  The ratio is helpful, but it has to be evaluated for impact.  If the concentrations of these ions are too low they won't have an effect.  Conversely if the brewer blindly considers only the ratio and bumps either sulfate or chloride too high to get the ratio right, there can be an unwelcome taste impact. 

761

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Water adjustment with extract

« on: January 18, 2011, 11:55:04 am »

There are probably enough minerals in the extract to suffice for the yeast, but there is one aspect that an extract brewer might consider, Flavor ions.

The main thing would be if you wanted to accentuate maltiness or hoppiness in the finished beer.  An extract brewer may add either gypsum or calcium chloride, but not both at the same time.  

I show that for a starting water with little ionic content, adding up to about 3/4 gram of calcium chloride per gallon of kettle water would be about the limit if maltiness is the goal.  

Adding up to 2 grams of gypsum per gallon of kettle water would be about the limit if accentuating hoppiness is the goal.  I would keep it under 1 gram/gallon if you weren't too interested in hopping it up that much.  

The added calcium from either of these minerals will be beneficial to the yeast since the starting water is low.

762

All Grain Brewing / Re: Bookend APA Water? Ya

« on: January 16, 2011, 08:48:20 pm »

It doesn't make any sense to me to use the post boil volume.  In many cases we're trying to duplicate a supposed historic brewing water.  Its not like someone did a post boil water analysis to figure out what the ionic concentrations were way back then.  In my opinion, its the preboil concentrations that should be considered.  This allows the same losses in the mash and the concentration in the boil that happened even in the good old days.

763

All Grain Brewing / Re: Bookend APA Water? Ya

« on: January 16, 2011, 03:14:44 pm »

I concur that the proposed sulfate content is not really that pronounced and bumping the sulfates significantly is OK for an APA.  No need to worry about the chloride/sulfate ratio since it will be depressed even further.  Keeping the chlorides where they are and bumping the sulfates to around 300 is acceptable. 

The Mg is already high enough, so gypsum is your only option.  Recognize that adding a bunch more gypsum will significantly depress the mash water RA.  Depressing RA further than the -5 that you already show will increase the fermentability of the wort and reduce the body.  I'm not sure if that is your goal.  You should be able to reduce the amount of lactic added to the mash for pH control to avoid that effect.  Sparge acidification will be still needed though. 

764

All Grain Brewing / Re: Rice Hulls?

« on: January 16, 2011, 09:25:29 am »

I do dough in slowly and mix all the while.  I'm pretty sure the hulls are interspersed.

765

General Homebrew Discussion / Re: Probably an easy math question/water

« on: January 16, 2011, 09:22:16 am »

The near surface sediments in the Gulf Coastal plain are typically composed of sands and gravels without a carbonate aquifer.  That explains the near lack of calcium and hardness.   That Sand and Gravel aquifer stretches westward from just east of Pensacola, FL.  That aquifer is typically fed locally from direct rainfall and the ionic content is therefore low.  The sediments can sometimes contain iron that leaches into the very soft groundwater. I see that this water does not really have that problem. 

Where this aquifer is not affected by salt water intrusion, it is a very high quality water source but can easily be contaminated by spills at ground surface.  The sandy sediments allow those contaminants to quickly enter the aquifer. 

As I mentioned, there is a bust in the concentrations quoted for this water.  Since it is likely suffering from salt water intrusion from the Gulf, its more likely that the chloride concentration is not accurate.  It is more likely on the order of over 25 ppm.  Still good enough for brewing.