Timothy Taylor Landlord

[dak0415]

I am about 1/2 way through my first keg of Landlord clone.  I have never used Styrian Goldings or WY1469 before.  Comments have been, "Creamy mouthfeel", "refreshing", "little bit of grapefruit", nobody has had just one.
I have mad LOTS of ESBs prior to this, using WY1968, so I do not quite understand where the grapefruit is coming from.  I also have never tried the original Landlord Bitter for comparison.  Any thoughts?

Recipe: 12 gallons

18 Lbs Maris Otter
1 LB Simpsons Crystal Maris Otter (55L)
4 oz British Chocolate (450L)
4g gypsum in mash
1g Pickling Lime in mash


Mash at 154 for 60 min, batch sparge

60 min boil
6g gypsum in boil
38g Target(8.6%) for 60 min
28g Fuggles(4.2%) for 60 min
56g Styrian Goldings(2.9%) for 20 min
28g Styrian Goldings(2.9%) at flameout

10 minute whirlpool, then chill.


Yeast: WY1469

Two Step Starter 2L-->4L Split between two fementers
Pitched at 62F, raised to 68 after krausen started to fall (about 3 days)
Kept in primary for 2 weeks, crashed to 31F for 1 week before kegging.

OG 1.047
FG 1.014
ABV 4.3%

[jeffy]

Interesting.  The judges in two competitions mentioned the use of American hops in mine and I used the same yeast and hops (Styrian Goldings) as you.

[dak0415]

Interesting.  The judges in two competitions mentioned the use of American hops in mine and I used the same yeast and hops (Styrian Goldings) as you.

Were your Styrian Goldings 2.9%?  That is what my LHBS had and I'm sure he did not mis-label the hops.
Does the fruitiness of the yeast present as grapefruit(tart)?

[kmccaf]

I've made a landlord clone very similar to yours about 4/5 times. Can't say I've ever tasted grapefruit in it. I would describe the flavor more as an orange marmalade taste myself, which I have been told can come from the styrian goldings. I've only tasted notes of it though, and it has never been overwhelming. The 1469 definitely throws some stone fruit off as well.

[dak0415]

I've made a landlord clone very similar to yours about 4/5 times. Can't say I've ever tasted grapefruit in it. I would describe the flavor more as an orange marmalade taste myself, which I have been told can come from the styrian goldings. I've only tasted notes of it though, and it has never been overwhelming. The 1469 definitely throws some stone fruit off as well.

It's not overwhelming, it's just there, kind of like, Oh! a little citrusy, is that grapefruit?  Maybe no gypsum in the boil next time and the orange will come through?

BTW, what is the "stone fruit" flavor?  I've heard it mentioned before, I'm sure I have tasted it, but what fruit specifically?

[jmcamerlengo]

I've made a landlord clone very similar to yours about 4/5 times. Can't say I've ever tasted grapefruit in it. I would describe the flavor more as an orange marmalade taste myself, which I have been told can come from the styrian goldings. I've only tasted notes of it though, and it has never been overwhelming. The 1469 definitely throws some stone fruit off as well.

It's not overwhelming, it's just there, kind of like, Oh! a little citrusy, is that grapefruit?  Maybe no gypsum in the boil next time and the orange will come through?

BTW, what is the "stone fruit" flavor?  I've heard it mentioned before, I'm sure I have tasted it, but what fruit specifically?

plum, fig that kinda thing.

[jeffy]

I've made a landlord clone very similar to yours about 4/5 times. Can't say I've ever tasted grapefruit in it. I would describe the flavor more as an orange marmalade taste myself, which I have been told can come from the styrian goldings. I've only tasted notes of it though, and it has never been overwhelming. The 1469 definitely throws some stone fruit off as well.

It's not overwhelming, it's just there, kind of like, Oh! a little citrusy, is that grapefruit?  Maybe no gypsum in the boil next time and the orange will come through?

BTW, what is the "stone fruit" flavor?  I've heard it mentioned before, I'm sure I have tasted it, but what fruit specifically?

plum, fig that kinda thing.

Or peaches.
I think the S.G. were more like 5.5%

[kmccaf]

I've made a landlord clone very similar to yours about 4/5 times. Can't say I've ever tasted grapefruit in it. I would describe the flavor more as an orange marmalade taste myself, which I have been told can come from the styrian goldings. I've only tasted notes of it though, and it has never been overwhelming. The 1469 definitely throws some stone fruit off as well.

It's not overwhelming, it's just there, kind of like, Oh! a little citrusy, is that grapefruit?  Maybe no gypsum in the boil next time and the orange will come through?

BTW, what is the "stone fruit" flavor?  I've heard it mentioned before, I'm sure I have tasted it, but what fruit specifically?

I see what you are saying, and I think we are getting the same thing, but our taste buds are interpreting it differently. Yeah, I think there should be a little citrus in the beer. I think Kris England said as much in another forum, and he definitely researched it. Others have already answered this, but by stone fruit I think pear, cherry, plum etc.

Other than that, do you like the citrusy note? I would say relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. I don't add gypsum, but it certainly has its place in an English ale of this sort. So, it depends on how much you like it. That citrusy note definitely belongs there though.

[Pawtucket Patriot]

I've made a landlord clone very similar to yours about 4/5 times. Can't say I've ever tasted grapefruit in it. I would describe the flavor more as an orange marmalade taste myself, which I have been told can come from the styrian goldings. I've only tasted notes of it though, and it has never been overwhelming. The 1469 definitely throws some stone fruit off as well.

It's not overwhelming, it's just there, kind of like, Oh! a little citrusy, is that grapefruit?  Maybe no gypsum in the boil next time and the orange will come through?

BTW, what is the "stone fruit" flavor?  I've heard it mentioned before, I'm sure I have tasted it, but what fruit specifically?

Stone fruit refers to fruit that has a pit, such as plums, peaches, cherries, etc.  I totally get that ester when I take a whiff of 1469, which is my favorite English yeast.

Out of curiosity, why are you using both gypsum and pickling lime in the mash?  Gypsum lowers pH while pickling lime raises it.  Seems like you could add less gypsum, omit the pickling lime entirely, and achieve the same mash pH.

[dak0415]

Stone fruit refers to fruit that has a pit, such as plums, peaches, cherries, etc.  I totally get that ester when I take a whiff of 1469, which is my favorite English yeast.

Matt, at what temp do you ferment?

[Pawtucket Patriot]

Stone fruit refers to fruit that has a pit, such as plums, peaches, cherries, etc.  I totally get that ester when I take a whiff of 1469, which is my favorite English yeast.

Matt, at what temp do you ferment?

I usually start my 1469 fermentations out in the mid-60s and then let it naturally ramp up to 68-70.  I think it's ok to go a little warmer with 1469 than some of the American ale strains.  Also, I've reused 1469 up to six generations without any noticeable profile difference.  It's just a great yeast!

[dak0415]

Out of curiosity, why are you using both gypsum and pickling lime in the mash?  Gypsum lowers pH while pickling lime raises it.  Seems like you could add less gypsum, omit the pickling lime entirely, and achieve the same mash pH.

To get my calcium levels up.  My water is pretty soft.

[Pawtucket Patriot]

Out of curiosity, why are you using both gypsum and pickling lime in the mash?  Gypsum lowers pH while pickling lime raises it.  Seems like you could add less gypsum, omit the pickling lime entirely, and achieve the same mash pH.

To get my calcium levels up.  My water is pretty soft.

During the mash, I think getting your pH in range is more important than achieving a particular calcium level.  Once you've collected your runnings, you can adjust the mineral profile all you want to hit your desired calcium level.  Just a friendly suggestion.

[Rhoobarb]

I love this yeast, too.  I've done a TTL clone a couple of times now and the last 10 gal. batch I did I split b/w 1469 and Thames Valley 1275 and preferred the 1469.  It gave the beer what I called a "juicier" hop flavor, like the citrusy little explosion you get with a fresh stick of Juicy Fruit gum.   Loved it.