[juddz]

Hello!

This weekend, I had the pleasure of trying a black IPA at HopCat in Grand Rapids. I've made regular IPAs that have worked out pretty well, and I'm considering doing a darker variation. I think I'd like to end up with something that could be described as either a hoppy porter or significantly darker IPA.

I'm still an extract brewer, but let me know what you think of this idea:
- Crush & steep 6 oz Simpsons chocolate malt, 6 oz Simpsons black malt, and 1 lb Simpsons dark crystal malt for 20 minutes
- Add 5 lb unhopped, amber DME
- Add 6AAU Fuggles hops at start of 60 minute boil
- Add 4 AAU Fuggles hops after 30 minutes
- Add 8 AAU after 55 minutes
- Cool to 70 degrees, then pitch Wyeast Ringwood Ale yeast
- Dry hop - Add 4 AAU Fuggles when transferring beer into the secondary
- Let condition 3-4 weeks, prime, & bottle

Thanks for your ideas!

[skyler]

What you would be  making would more approximate an Imperial Stout or a Barley Wine than a Black IPA. I live in Portland, and drink a lot of Black IPA's... I would just brew your favorite IPA and add 6-8 oz of Sinamar, personally.

[deepsouth]

what is sinamar?

[Hokerer]

what is sinamar?

It's a malt coloring product extracted from Carafa malt by Weyerman...

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=37&sprache=2

[dbeechum]

And if you don't have access to Sinamar, you can take crushed chocolate malt (preferably Carafa) and steep it in cold water overnight. The soak ratio is quite intense. You want it to be like a super gritty slurry.

The next day, strain the liquid out. (I use a wire mesh strainer) and voila - you basically have homemade Sinamar.

[denny]

Here's some info on cold steeping...

From George Fix on Cold Steeping

Question to Dr. Fix:

On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival! The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics. The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My version goes as follows.

    * (i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
    * (ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
    * (iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the procedure.

The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.

[juddz]

Thanks for the suggestions! Another thing I'm a little on the fence about is my choice of yeast. Ringwood might be interesting; then again, there might be too much butterscotch flavor in the finished beer...

[dbeechum]

I almost universal loath Ringwood because without an experienced brewers hand it produces butter bombs. Then again I'm very sensitive to diacetyl

[deepsouth]

maybe/probably it's just dumb luck, but i've had good luck with ringwood ale in ipa's.  even won a contest and got third best of show with a ringwood ale fermented ipa.

[skyler]

If I made a Black IPA (and I plan to sometime in the next few months), I wouldn't use a "risky" yeast like Ringwood, but something extremely safe, like 1056, since off flavors could be difficult to attribute to the yeast, the malt bill, the hop bill, the process... when things are "experimental" on too many grounds. If you're looking for an "English" strain, try 1028 or 1275 (or even S-04).

[johncake]

Does sinamar contribute a flavor?  I realize brewing an IPA and turning it black, technically is a "Black IPA", but I tend to think of the Black IPAs as having a roasty touch to them.  There are quite a few of these beers out there now, I've had them but have never brewed one.  Aren't the brewers using some dark malt like chocolate or debittered black to get that roasty note and dark color?

[babalu87]

Imperial Black Ale

I dont see the point of just using coloring but thats just me.
I like the touch of roast in mine

[juddz]

Okay, so I think I will try the sinamar and a more typical ale yeast when I try to hit the black IPA. I'm planning on brewing two batches in March, despite the hassle of bottling nearly four cases when I finally have the time to do so! Thus, while following the suggestions here in an attempt to nail a style, I might also give the proposed recipe a shot just to see what I come up with. I'm really still learning the finer points of brewing, so a little exploration is probably in order. Besides, a friend of mine has really been encouraging me to give it a try! Recent experimentation has produced good results. I've primed my last two batches with a cup each of DME, and despite concerns that it may not ferment ad well as corn sugar, it did produce sufficient carbonation, and enhanced the maltiness of the beer. Slowly but surely, I'm learning how to brew better beer!

[k4df4l]

I did one recently with 1lb of Carafa II and it came out pitch black, definitely got a bit of mellow roasty flavor but it works pretty nice overall between the hops and the rest of the grain bill.  I used WLP007 and it's a stellar attenuator & flocs like mad.

[skyler]

I've primed my last two batches with a cup each of DME, and despite concerns that it may not ferment ad well as corn sugar, it did produce sufficient carbonation

One piece of added advice that I wish I had been given earlier in my homebrewing experience: when bottling a "big" beer, especially one that is somewhat expensive to make, add a pack of dry ale yeast (Nottingham, US-05, S-04, whatever) a couple days before bottling. This will GREATLY increase your likelihood of having good, reliable carbonation.