General Category > General Homebrew Discussion
That German lager flavor
beersk:
So I've realized that my palate really lies in German beer after all these years. I've always liked it, but never really focused on it as my main beer of choice. So I want to replicate some of those favorite styles of German beer that I love so much.
So, based on your experience (if any), what does one have to do to achieve that distinct German lager flavor found in beers like Spaten Dunkel, Weihenstephaner Festbier, Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest, etc? Is it anything specific that gives the beer that flavor? Is it the yeast? Is in decoction mashing? Is it specific malts? Hops? I'm thinking the answer is going to be a combination of all those. But I've tasted a lot of Oktoberfest beers fermented with Wyeast munich lager yeast I'm sure, that don't taste anything like what I'm after. I want that flavor found in those beers listed above, not just a "clean" flavor. Get what I'm saying?
Anyway, thanks!
davidgzach:
Most of it definitely lies in the yeast and ingredients. But I will not discount the process either. Most all German breweries perform Hockhurz mashes. Sac rest at 146-148, Dex rest at 158-160 mash out at 168-172.
Funny enough, I just made two Spaten clones, one with 2308 Munich Lager and the other with 2206 Bavarian Lager. The 2206 is much closer to the Spaten, but the 2308 came out with a wonderful malt character. It's not Spaten, but it's really good!
As for the Octoberfest, you definitely need to perform a decoction mash to get it right. I perform a triple decoction for this style and use the Wyeast Oktoberfest Blend. It has pleased the crowd at our mountain Oktoberfest Party every year.
Finally, you have to use Noble German hops. Nothing but Hallertau varieties or Tettnanger.
For what it's worth, this is what has worked for me so I'm sticking to it! :D
Dave
Pawtucket Patriot:
I've been interested in this subject for awhile, as my tastes have definitely gravitated toward German lagers over the years. Probably 75% of what I brew now are German lagers. I know a few other forum members have done a lot of experimentation/research regarding how to achieve that elusive German lager "quality." Anecdotally (that is to say non-scientifically), I think it is a careful interplay of having the right water profile, using sound yeast management/fermentation techniques, and using quality German base malts. I've also sort of resigned myself to the notion that like wine, there might be something of a terroir aspect to German lagers, i.e., something that is really unquantifiable that contributes to the uniqueness of the flavor. Anyway, I'll be interested to follow this thread! Sorry I don't have much more insight than some non-scientific musings. :-\
davidgzach:
+1. I forgot to mention adjusting the water, pitching a huge starter and the mash PH.
I started to boil my strike water to get the bicarb out of it. If I make a Dortmunder, I will leave the bicarb in. Do you have your water chemistry?
I now use 4oz of Acidulated Malt to get my mash PH to 5.2-5.3. It has definitely made a difference.
The major difference was making a 1G starter and pitching the correct amount of yeast. I have been saving the diffferent strains, washing it and pitching the entire amount back in. My hydrometer samples now taste like I could drink the beer now while before, when I was underpitching, you knew it needed some serious lagering time.
Great thread. I look forward to seeing additional posts as well. There is always much to learn!
Dave
redbeerman:
Through experimentation we have also found that the hop character found in German lagers relys a lot on late hop additons (5 min. and flameout). Don't be stingy here, it really makes a difference. Right Ron?
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