dark malt in saison

[euge]

Well that could be as to why I liked the term dubbel for my strong dark saisons when I used a significant amount of special-B. If color is so insignificant to an established guideline for a "saison" then dryness vs sweetness is also in the gray area IMO. I can pick and choose too when terming my strong beer.

[mtnrockhopper]

Why not? I've had dome dry Dubbels...

I think dubbles should be pretty dry, but not peppery and I think of saison yeast as peppery.

[euge]

Why not? I've had dome dry Dubbels...

I think dubbles should be pretty dry, but not peppery and I think of saison yeast as peppery.

That's a great point!

[mtnrockhopper]

Why not? I've had dome dry Dubbels...

I think dubbles should be pretty dry, but not peppery and I think of saison yeast as peppery.

That's a great point!

The BJCP guidelines for dubbel say low-moderate phenolics, including peppery, are OK.  But saison also has citrusy esters, while dubbel has dark fruit esters.

[majorvices]

And the candi sugar! Or at least special B. That caramel raisin and dark fruit quality is what makes a dubbel, for me anyways. Saisons are dry and peppery and can have a citrus fruit quality like you said. But if you use a saison yeast on a dubbel recipe (with candi and/or special B) it will strongly resemble a dubbel. Hell, I made a doppelbock one time with generous amounts of special B and it resembled a dubbel.

[euge]

I think you guys are right. After all isn't a dark saison just a specialty ale anyway?

[redbeerman]

There is a Zymurgy issue with lots of saison recipes, many dark. I think it is 1-2 years ago - might be on eZymurgy?

Drew did a pretty good article on Saison brewing last fall in Zymurgy.  It may have been the September/October issue.

[snowtiger87]

I brewed a Black Chocolate Saison recently with 1.5 lbs of Briess Blackprinz malt cold-steeped in 2 quarts of water for about 2 hours. I then boiled it for 10 minutes, dissolved 8 oz of bakers chocolate in it and then added to the fermenter with the main beer. It turned out black as night but still dry like a Sasion should be with a slight chocolate flavor but no roasty or coffee flavors. The rest of the grain bill was 20% Munich and the rest Pale Malt and about 10% sugar.