double IPA recipe help

[goschman]

Hi All. I am trying to do one last batch in my current home before I have to suspend operations for some time. I thought I would do a double IPA to get rid of some hops and also have a strong beer that will age well. I prefer more balanced hoppy beers.

For the grains I was thinking:
45% two row
40% munich I
10% wheat
5% honey malt

OG 1.080
Mash at 150
US-05 yeast

My first question is what kind of efficiency should I expect? I recently started going to a different brew store and my efficiency has jumped up about 10 points because of their grain mills. I have been getting around 80%. Any idea of what I should drop it to as an estimate for a 1.080 beer?

Now for hops. I have a bunch of columbus and bravo that I want to use up and I was going to shoot for slightly above 80 IBUs and a bitterness ratio of 1.0. I also have some centennial, amarillo, and cascade that I will probably use for later additions and or dry hopping. I plan to FWH with columbus and do a standard 60 min addition with bravo with both of those additions coming to about 1/2 of the total IBUs. Any recommendations on the rest of the hop schedule?

18 g Columbus FWH
18 g Bravo 60 min

[denny]

I'd advise you to add at least a lb. of sugar to lighten up the body.

[goschman]

I'd advise you to add at least a lb. of sugar to lighten up the body.

Good advice. I forgot about that

[goschman]

okay I am slowly getting somewhere

For 5.5 gallon batch:
6.25# two row
6.25# munich I
1.5# wheat
.75# honey malt
.75# table sugar

Dropped by my estimated efficiency to 75% which calculates to an estimated og of 1.080

I am thinking about only using Columbus and Bravo for hops but I have not heard great things about Bravo. I have seen it compared to Columbus many times but it seems only appropriate for bittering. I have used a small amount of bravo once and I thought the pellets smelled great. So my hop scheduled is still TBD.

Proposed hop schedule:
18 g Columbus FWH
18 g Bravo 60 min
35 g Columbus 15 min
35 g Bravo 10 min
21 g Columbus 5 min

I have various leaf hops that I will probably throw in at flame out and let steep through cooling. Then I plan to dry hop with columbus and bravo. This is all dependent on what kind of feedback I get regarding Bravo as a flavor/aroma hop.  84.7 IBUs

[erockrph]

I'd probably try to simplify the grain bill a bit. I normally love a bit of Munich in an IPA, but for an IIPA I think you really want the malt bill to get out of the way of the hops. I'd swap out the Munich for 2-row. The honey malt may be OK, but I'd be more inclined to replace it with a light Crystal (20-40ish) or even Carapils.

I'd add about 4-6 oz of hops at flameout and a minimum of 6 ounces as dry hops.

[goschman]

I'd probably try to simplify the grain bill a bit. I normally love a bit of Munich in an IPA, but for an IIPA I think you really want the malt bill to get out of the way of the hops. I'd swap out the Munich for 2-row. The honey malt may be OK, but I'd be more inclined to replace it with a light Crystal (20-40ish) or even Carapils.

I'd add about 4-6 oz of hops at flameout and a minimum of 6 ounces as dry hops.

Thanks for the input. Any suggestions about bravo?

I am thinking half two row and half munich may be more to my liking after do an all munich APA recently. At first I thought it was way too malty but now I love it. I prefer my hoppy beers to be more on the balanced side with some sweetness. I am hoping to do this Friday so I still have some time to develop the recipe.

As far as the hops, I cannot afford to do 10-12 oz between flameout and dry hop. I was more in the range of 8 oz total max. Maybe I should scale it down to a regular IPA.... My normal IPA is 70% 2 row, 25% munich, and 5% crystal which is great. I only use about 5 oz of hops in the beer and it is very close to what I like at 69 IBUs and an OG of 1.063

[majorvices]

An IIPA is a hop showcase, plain and simple. It''s not about balance, it's about hops. If you cant afford to go absolutely  crazy with your hops addition I'd look too scaling back down to IPA or just brew a barley wine.

Also, what's the wheat in there for? Not that it will hurt but it ain't really there for anything either. If it is for head retention hops actually have better head forming qualities than wheat.

[mypenguin]

I am confused at this thread.  He wants to get rid of a bunch of his leftover ingredients, but wants to brew something to age with high ABV.  A DIPA will have the ABV, but there is no point in aging it as then you are just wasting the hops you are putting into it.  Maybe that's just me though.

[jeffy]

I am confused at this thread.  He wants to get rid of a bunch of his leftover ingredients, but wants to brew something to age with high ABV.  A DIPA will have the ABV, but there is no point in aging it as then you are just wasting the hops you are putting into it.  Maybe that's just me though.

No, it's not just you.  I'd agree that going for an American Barleywine may be a better beer to lay down, plus it's more balanced, which he wants.

[goschman]

Sorry all I guess I am just an idiot. When I meant I wanted something to age I meant for 6 months or less. I know that a lot like their hoppy stuff very fresh but not me.

I have never had a barleywine that I liked and don't really want to brew one. I will just plan to switch gears and do something else.

My favorite double IPA is listed to have the following malts although I obviously don't have the %; 471 is a double IPA, that combines Pale, Munich, Caramel-30, Carapils and Torrified Wheat malts. I would assume the munich is a smaller % than what I was planning. It is described to have a "big sweet mouthfeel". I guess I had that in my head as a goal.

Thanks for all the help

[majorvices]

In my opinion a IIPA at 6 months is starting to get long in the tooth the fresher the better.

None of that means you are an idiot, but I think your idea of what a IIPA is way different from mine or most of the people on the forum.

But the recipe you have will make a tasty beer if you brew it, so if that's what you want - go for it. But if you are asking help with a IIPA recipe then all the advice given here sound. And FWIW a IIPA should definitely not have a "big, sweet mouthfeel".... Least, not the ones I care for. Think IIPA as a deceivingly high gravity session beer. It should be fairly dry and surprisingly drinkable for the gravity.

[goschman]

Got it and all the advice makes complete sense.

I used to be a raging hophead and the more hoppy and bitter the better. Now, my palate has changed and I like things more balanced but I still love hop flavor and aroma. The bigger IPAs and IIPAs  that I like are still classified as these styles however I consider them to have more malt character and complexity than it appears most around here like.

It appears that I probably don't have the right hop types and amounts to do a good IIPA unless I did a smaller batch which is another option. I will probably scale it back to an IPA and use a hop schedule like something here:

Bravo - 60 min
Columbus - 20 min
equal amts of Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade - 10, 5, 0 min
Columbus - Dry hop

Maybe simplify the malt bill
75% two row
20% munich
5% honey/crystal

[tschmidlin]

An IIPA is a hop showcase, plain and simple. It''s not about balance, it's about hops. If you cant afford to go absolutely  crazy with your hops addition I'd look too scaling back down to IPA or just brew a barley wine.

I see it as an unbalanced balance - massive overload on one side, but still something on the other side.  Too many homebrewed IIPAs are all hops without the malt to support it.  I don't need to taste the malt, but I should feel its impact on the beer.  A good IIPA doesn't taste like super hoppy fizzy water.

[majorvices]

I don't disagree with you Tom but if you go timid on the hops or if you are worried about turning away people who are not a hop head from you IIPA then yer not brewing a IIPA

[tschmidlin]

Agreed.