Low gravity saison

[erockrph]

I'm planning on brewing a low-gravity saison to prop up a pitch of 3711 for a Biere de Mars. Any tips? In particular, I'm wondering what mash temp I'd want to use. My gut tells me to mash low, but if I'm only starting out at 1.040ish for my OG is there a risk that I may end up with a brew that ends up too thin-bodied?

Here's what I was thinking of:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Table Saison

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 3 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3.5 gallons
Efficiency: 85% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.039
Final Gravity: 1.008
ABV (standard): 4.08%
IBU (tinseth): 27.36
SRM (morey): 5.86

FERMENTABLES:
3 lb - German - Bohemian Pilsner (82.8%)
4 oz - American - Wheat (6.9%)
4 oz - German - Munich Light (6.9%)
2 oz - Belgian - Special B (3.4%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Ultra, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: First Wort (AA 9, IBU: 27.36)
1 oz - Ultra for 0 min, Type: Leaf/Whole, Use: Boil (AA 9)

MASH STEPS:
1) Infusion, Temp: 149 F, Time: 90 min, Amount: 16 qt, Sacc rest

YEAST:
Wyeast - French Saison 3711

NOTES:
Pitch at 66F, hold for a day, then let free rise.

[svejk]

I think you'll find that 3711 will have no trouble taking a 1.039 beer all the way down to 1.000, so I wouldn't hesitate to raise the mash temp to 154 to see if you could leave a couple points on the hydrometer.  From a recipe standpoint, I would probably throw in 4 oz of acidulated malt, because my belief is that it adds a little bit of a twang in the finish that really works well in the style.  I'm not sure whether I'd go with the Special B myself, maybe a bit of aromatic or special roast to add complexity.

Good luck with the brew!  I'm a big fan of making small saisons to build up my yeast, and I would be very interested in reading a followup posted to this thread once you know how it turns out.

[erockrph]

I think you'll find that 3711 will have no trouble taking a 1.039 beer all the way down to 1.000, so I wouldn't hesitate to raise the mash temp to 154 to see if you could leave a couple points on the hydrometer.  From a recipe standpoint, I would probably throw in 4 oz of acidulated malt, because my belief is that it adds a little bit of a twang in the finish that really works well in the style.  I'm not sure whether I'd go with the Special B myself, maybe a bit of aromatic or special roast to add complexity.

Good luck with the brew!  I'm a big fan of making small saisons to build up my yeast, and I would be very interested in reading a followup posted to this thread once you know how it turns out.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably shoot for the mid-150's for my mash temp, then. Aromatic sounds like a good addition - I may end up adding a few ounces of that here. The Special B is partly because I want a touch of crystal malt here to keep it from drying out completely, and partly because I'm just a big fan of Special B (especially in most Belgian styles). I don't necessarily want a big crystal malt flavor, but I've had some Saisons with a considerable amount of crystal malt and they have worked surprisingly well.

I prefer lactic acid to acidulated malt for repeatability purposes, but I agree about the twang. I'm lucky to have low sodium in my brewing water, so I may even add some extra baking soda so I can get a little extra lactic acid in there and still keep my mash pH in the 5.3-5.4 range.

[morticaixavier]

I think you'll find that 3711 will have no trouble taking a 1.039 beer all the way down to 1.000, so I wouldn't hesitate to raise the mash temp to 154 to see if you could leave a couple points on the hydrometer.  From a recipe standpoint, I would probably throw in 4 oz of acidulated malt, because my belief is that it adds a little bit of a twang in the finish that really works well in the style.  I'm not sure whether I'd go with the Special B myself, maybe a bit of aromatic or special roast to add complexity.

Good luck with the brew!  I'm a big fan of making small saisons to build up my yeast, and I would be very interested in reading a followup posted to this thread once you know how it turns out.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably shoot for the mid-150's for my mash temp, then. Aromatic sounds like a good addition - I may end up adding a few ounces of that here. The Special B is partly because I want a touch of crystal malt here to keep it from drying out completely, and partly because I'm just a big fan of Special B (especially in most Belgian styles). I don't necessarily want a big crystal malt flavor, but I've had some Saisons with a considerable amount of crystal malt and they have worked surprisingly well.

I prefer lactic acid to acidulated malt for repeatability purposes, but I agree about the twang. I'm lucky to have low sodium in my brewing water, so I may even add some extra baking soda so I can get a little extra lactic acid in there and still keep my mash pH in the 5.3-5.4 range.

If you are adding the lactic for twang and not for pH adjustment why not just add it to the kettle? then you don't have to mess around with adding lime or soda and acid.

[erockrph]

If you are adding the lactic for twang and not for pH adjustment why not just add it to the kettle? then you don't have to mess around with adding lime or soda and acid.

Good point. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I always pick up good ideas around here.

[denny]

If you are adding the lactic for twang and not for pH adjustment why not just add it to the kettle? then you don't have to mess around with adding lime or soda and acid.

Good point. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I always pick up good ideas around here.

You could even add it post fermentation so you can taste to get just the right amount, rather than guessing when you put it in the kettle.

[redbeerman]

If you are adding the lactic for twang and not for pH adjustment why not just add it to the kettle? then you don't have to mess around with adding lime or soda and acid.

Good point. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I always pick up good ideas around here.

You could even add it post fermentation so you can taste to get just the right amount, rather than guessing when you put it in the kettle.

+1  I have had to make lactic adjustments in the past.  This is what I do.  You can take a smaller sample, doctor it, and scale up from there when you get the flavor profile you are looking for.

[kraftwerk]

Sounds quite nice. Just in time for early spring!

I've been on a serious saison kick recently and can't get enough of the 3711. You might find that it is even better in subsequent generations! I've always added acidity with about 4 oz acidulated malt for a 5 gal batch but it's really just guess work. I usually end up with good results. This conversation has inspired me to try adding lactic acid prior to kegging just for fun!

[reverseapachemaster]

I FWH a saison and thought the smoother bitterness actually left the beer a little lacking. I think you need some of that sharper bitterness for the style although it doesn't need to become an IPA in disguise.