Should the AHA Keep TechTalk?

[paul62]

I voted to keep TT.  Yes, I do not use the Forum that much.  I find it less useful than TT.  It reminds me of Usenet from decades ago.  Are there benefits to both formats?  Sure.  But what I read here in opposition to keeping TT, is condescending, and quite frankly, not very intelligent.  Hence the dislike of many of us for the Forum over TT.  I see the same sophmoric, snarky defensiveness.
Yes, we will get over it.  As stated above, one of the reasons (apart from the merits or demerits of each approach to information sharing) for the opposition is how it was decided and announced.  No input from the membership.  Sadly it is another example of something good being taken over by the beancounters.  That is how Budweiser became tasteless, alcoholic fizz.  Once upon a time it was a good beer.  I see the same progression for the AHA.  I guess this is another change we can believe in.

Paul Mahoney
Star City Brewers Guild
Roanoke, Va.

[weithman5]

i have never been able to actually find and use techtalk to try it.  and yes i am a member. 

[hokerer]

That is how Budweiser became tasteless, alcoholic fizz.  Once upon a time it was a good beer.  I see the same progression for the AHA.  I guess this is another change we can believe in.

Paul Mahoney
Star City Brewers Guild
Roanoke, Va.

...and you complain about "condescending, and quite frankly, not very intelligent".  Might want to look in a mirror, seems that argument might apply both ways.

We can have much more constructive conservations and, hopefully, reach more reasonable conclusions if everyone just sticks to the facts and avoids the personal attacks.  Talk about what it is you like/dislike about TT and what you like/dislike about the forum (assuming you give it an honest shot).

ps.  Tell Beth D. I said Hi!

[wfaris]

I skim through TechTalk everyday but don't get a whole lot out of it.  I would participate in it a lot more except that it is a PITA to reply to an individual post without doing major edit of the quote.  In addition, the lag between posting a question and getting a response ends up with with many responses stating basically the same thing over and over.  Gets a bit boring to read.  I like the quick response you can get off forums like this.  You can see how others have responded and then limit your response to something that actually adds to the content rather than just repeating what has already been said.

Wayne
Bugeater Brewing Company

[majorvices]

Hey Wayne - its great to see you here. haven't seen a post from you in quite some time!

[Joe Sr.]

Do I detect a general current here? People who say they use both but prefer TT .... but who don't really seem to be usingt he forum at all. 4 posts?? You have looked at it once or twice ... maybe 4 times tops. 

Hey, Major.  Isn't one of the objections to TT that people post the same question over and over and never search for the answer?

If people are using the forum as it's intended - an information resource - then chances are they are searching, reading and learning perhaps never posting.

If, instead, the forum is a social network where number of posts is important, I think it has a lot less value.

Is the number of posts really that important to you?  Should we not be looking at the quality of someone's posts rather than the volume?  I can post a hundred "me too"s and "+1" and I add nothing to the community.

As one of the loudest and most frequent proponents of the forum, you do yourself no benefit by harping on number of posts.

As I think I pointed out previously, there appears to be a small number of frequent posters on the forum, similar to that of TT.  That of course does not mean there is not a vast quantity of silent brewers gleaning information and enjoying the repartee.

Try listening to what people have to say rather than looking at their post-count.  Since the forum is open to all, I would assume all opinions matter and all voices should be heard.

The judgemental nature of some of your posts on this topic is entirely absent from the conversation that occurs on TT (but for the current rancorous debate) as well as from the majority of your other posts on the forum, from what I have seen. 

Help yourself out and rise above it.  You do a lot better when you stick to what you honestly believe are the benefits of the forum, but this sort of noise detracts from your message.

[majorvices]

WOW!  jrdunne, quite frankly, its hard not to find your post insulting and you have really got me pegged wrong! And if you REALLY read my posts on this thread you will see where I have said numerous times that I think that if people want to keep TT then I am behind them 100 percent. To insinuate that I care about post count at all really is more of a reflection of yourself.  Or perhaps it is a projection of your own. But it is not at all what I care about.

I absolutely agree that people can use it as a search tool. But It is also incredibly obvious that way too many TTers are coming over, voting for the poll and not really trying to give the forum a shot - period. I could care less how many post counts people have, but it is hard to overlook that when people come in and say "I hate the forum" and it is their first post, that they surely haven't given it a fair shake.

I'l be frank, in every case where people have brought up instances where they say TT beats the forum, I'm baffled! I can find absolutely no instance. When people have a question or want to share ideas or make an announcement the forum does this instantly. It's quicker to navigate, not slower. Its easier to search on. Easier to skip topics that don't interest you. I understand that the people who enjoy TT are looking at it as a routine, something they enjoy with their coffee in the AM (the way I do with this forum, BTW). And I am in no way an advocate for people to lose this. But I also think people could get the same thing from this forum, and more.

Oh, and for the record, I voted No Pants. I am in no way against the TTers.

[bluesman]

I am also subscribed to TT and read the emails occasionally.  I find that they are informative in nature and provide much insight to homebrewing as a craft. I can understand the disappointment form the folks that regularly use TT.

I find that on the forum I can search, read and learn from the massive amount of information that the forum has generated in less than only one year. The forum is a living and breathing entity that is very dynamic in nature. Some days I'm troubleshooting a fermentation issue while others I'm helping another newbie homebrewers reconcile a mash efficiency issue.  The forum is a great entity that not only helps me learn but allows me to help others as well. 

I have often times found myself laughing at posts not in a destructive way but in a way that is inherently part of the everyday business here.  Many of the members here have a sense of humor which I find to be a benefit because if I can't laugh and learn from my mistakes I might as well just go home.

Give the forum a chance.  I think you'll find it to be a valuable resource and a place to call your own.

[brushvalleybrewer]

Is it okay if I like both the Forum and TechTalk? Can I like Ales and Lagers? Is it all right to eat meat and vegetables? Is it acceptable to like wine and mead? Beer and cider? Extract and all grain?

There is a situation called the sucker’s choice. It is when we accept a false choice where no choice exists. It does this by ignoring the third choice. The choice of “and.”

Should the AHA only have a forum?
Should the AHA only have a mailing list?
Should the AHA have both a forum and a mailing list?

I like the third option. I enjoy the Forum and TechTalk (though I have to admit I have replies and image loading disabled so that spammers cannot tell they have reached a valid account and deny them a valuable property to resell to their fellow spammers).

I tend to lurk in both, but I think that is the default behavior on most lists and forums. I have a pretty good system worked out for reading everything on the forum, though I have to remember to use it (that’s the “pull” that people talk about). The mailing list has much more marketing value (that is the “push” that people talk about). It reminds me every day that I am an AHA member in a way that does not get annoying or seem like marketing spam. I don’t know why you would want to throw that away.

If there are labor, skill set, or economic issues, then let’s address those.

Can we talk about beer now? 

[Joe Sr.]

Keith - apologies for any insult given, as none was intended.

However, I remain at a loss as to why you point out post counts in this discussion.  I don't see that as relevant even if the only reason they posted was to say they prefer TT.  For those who say they hate the forum, whatever.  They won't be participants so who cares?

Someone can be a part of this community, or the TT community, without ever posting.  That's my point.

I think you'll notice I'm giving the forum a chance.  This is not the only thread I've posted on.

I appreciate your support of TT and would note that I have not been opposed to the forum or negative about it in any way.  For the record, I did post on TT that I don't believe I will be an active participant in the forum, but that is clearly falling by the wayside...

JOE

[majorvices]

Joe - here's the thing about post counts. There's only two that matter. The FIRST FEW (1 or 2 or 3 or even 4) post counts that let people know that someone is new to the forum and should be welcomed as such. And any numbers that are rediculously and embarrassingly high like mine (and a few others) that show people are spending way too much time here.   Honest to goodness I do not take my post count with any amount of pride. If there as a way I could hide it or lock it in at 501 I would.  

My only point in bringing up post counts here was that it is obvious that a lot of TTers are coming over, posting once (or joining, voting and not posting), saying they "hate the forum" and not giving it a fair shake. Its not really about post counts per se. My emphasis is simply on people not really giving the forum a genuine try. The fact that I bring up "post count" is only a necessary evil. I will also point out that I often scan the users lurking on the forum and I recognize a lot of them from day to day or week to week. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with lurking! And perhaps it was unfair of me to criticize someone initially with a total of four posts. The "winky" emoticon was there to make whomever it was know that I was teasing and not being entirely serious. But I am being serious when I say that many people are not really giving the forum a genuine try.

I will restate, just to be clear, that it is not the post count I am concerned about at all. I just think that - to be fair - people should actually give the forum a genuine try before they come over here and make the pronouncement that they "hate it" for what ever reason, or make criticisms that, in all honesty, don't seem to hold a lot of water. That is really my point - not post count.

I appreciate you giving it a try and I hope to see you around participating in the future. A sincere welcome to everyone who is coming over and trying the forum!

[Malticulous]

I've searched but can not find out how to subscribe to TT. I'd guess that's something that comes with the membership card I've never gotten? (no vote from me)

[Joe Sr.]

The "winky" emoticon was there to make whomever it was know that I was teasing and not being entirely serious.

Missed it.  Saw it later.  Not my thing but I suppose I should get used to emoticons.  As another poster noted, some of the humor/sarcasm/good-natured ribbing gets lost in the reading...  No fix for that I suppose.  Perhaps my fault in being reactionary.

I just think that - to be fair - people should actually give the forum a genuine try before they come over here and make the pronouncement that they "hate it" for what ever reason

Fair enough and agreed.  However, on the flip side just because some people like the forum doesn't mean TT doesn't have it's place, though I believe you agree with that.

[beerocd]

And any numbers that are rediculously and embarrassingly high like mine (and a few others) that show people are spending way too much time here.

Hey! 

[theDarkSide]

Hey Wayne - its great to see you here. haven't seen a post from you in quite some time!

You should head over to the Brewing Network forum...you can't shut this guy up 

Just kidding Bugeater....this guy has helped me out of a jam several times through the BN forum!!