Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum
General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: tomsawyer on December 11, 2011, 09:22:59 PM
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Judged a homebrew contest sponsored by the St Louis Brews this weekend. Its a tough job but someone has to do it. Entered three beers, and managed a second place on a Flanders red.
Most importantly though, I won the grand prize in the raffle. It was a Brewhemoth conical fermentor with all the bells and whistles. We're talking a 22gal stainless steel conical (easily ferments a half barrel/15.5gal), tri-clamp version, with the internal cooling coil and the pressurizing attachment. They even included the tri-clamp valves and hardware so it is completely ready to go.
I was totally stunned when they read my number. I've been a small-batch brewer but this system will let you brew 5gal just fine so it will see a lot of use. I'm already ordering some extra hardware to explore closed-system pressurized fermentation, something I only learned about when I started looking at Brewhemoth threads on another forum. I've also got a plan for temperature control with the chiller unit.
In any case, thanks to Josh and Dale for donating such a fantastic prize. Enjoyed judging a round with Josh on Saturday, not knowing he was one of the guys running Brewhemoth. The company is based in St Louis and the guys are award-winning homebrewers. Go check out their website and be prepared to be jealous.
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Congrats, that's a great prize just for showing up and judging. I've had a pair of them since earlier this year and haven't even put anything besides water int hem. I'm almost to the point in my project of putting some beer in them though
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Very cool! Congrats, Lennie.
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This one won't sit empty for long, I've got plenty of malt and I'll start with an ale and the basement is already cool so I have great ambient temps.
Thanks Denny, I may pressure-ferment a BVIP this winter. The BVIP that won the specialty beer category (see my post on Specialty Judging) was just excellent.
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Wow..congrats Lennie!
I'm sure you'll put it to good use. :)
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Jealous. Nice score and being able to use it even better.
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Congrats on your good luck. Excellent score!
You know you could always brew multiple batches to fill that bad boy up.
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Lennie, you will find that you like having a conical. Great that someone who will put it to good use won it. Congrats!
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Congrats on your good luck. Excellent score!
You know you could always brew multiple batches to fill that bad boy up.
I'll definitely do a 15gal batch at some point this year just for fun. I could probably do two mashes/boils with my system and come up with that amount. I'll have to get help drinking the beer but I have a feeling there would be volunteers who would bring a keg by for a fill. I have 400+ lb of malt in the basement so that won't be a problem either.
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Just wondering, but do you judge your own beer category in a case like this?
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No, if you have entries you can't judge that style category. There are 23 categories though so its usually not a problem unless you enter a whole lot of beers. The only problem is if you enter categories you really enjoy, then you can't be assigned to judge those. They will usually ask you what you want to judge, and sometimes you get one of those.
I entered in light lagers, amber lagers, and sours. I judged German wheats, Belgian and French ales, and Specialty beers. I liked the weizens, I have experience brewing those. I also have experience with the Belgians but I'm not that big of a fan of the phenolic character anymore. The Specialty category was all over the place. I think the worst are the dark beers, 10 stouts and your palate is toast.
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That's awesome Lennie, congrats!
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I woke up early and decided to fill the Brewhemoth with hot water and PBW. Its full to the brim, 22gal. I opened the dump valve and the racking valve to get cleaner through them, that amount of head really makes the water shoot out with some force.
Now I just have to hope the water heater recovers before my wife wakes up and wants to shower.
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Congratulations, that's awesome! Definitely an excellent addition to the brewing equipment.
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Just wondering, but do you judge your own beer category in a case like this?
Never.
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Just wondering, but do you judge your own beer category in a case like this?
Never.
You certainly hope never.
One time I was a BOS judge and was served my own beer. The organizer goofed up. I chose to withdraw my beer from BOS judging. It seemed less disruptive to remove the beer than recuse myself mid-judging. I was given the choice.
All things considered, I would have rather had the pile of goodies that came with winning BOS than the BOS experience points. But the time for that decision was before the BOS judging started, not midstream.
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Just wondering, but do you judge your own beer category in a case like this?
Never.
You certainly hope never.
One time I was a BOS judge and was served my own beer. The organizer goofed up. I chose to withdraw my beer from BOS judging. It seemed less disruptive to remove the beer than recuse myself mid-judging. I was given the choice.
All things considered, I would have rather had the pile of goodies that came with winning BOS than the BOS experience points. But the time for that decision was before the BOS judging started, not midstream.
Actually I remember that incident, too, but I thought that the best of show judging points earned you the very first BJCP National rank in the state. That was probably worth it. :)
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Good Karma!
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I drained the PBW and have it soaking with Starsan now, so its ready to go. I ordered some additional tri-clamp fittings and the stuff to make a spunding valve, hopefully things will be in by the weekend. My Chicago trip got postponed so I have the weekend to play.
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I'm considering setting up a chiller with a small wine fridge I'm not using. Its Peltier cooled, I would drill holes in the top for the plastic hoses and put my coolant reservoir in the fridge and pump with a small pond pump. Not sur ethis would give me lager temps, although duirng the winter the basement is cool (60F tops) anyway.
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I'm considering setting up a chiller with a small wine fridge I'm not using. Its Peltier cooled, I would drill holes in the top for the plastic hoses and put my coolant reservoir in the fridge and pump with a small pond pump. Not sur ethis would give me lager temps, although duirng the winter the basement is cool (60F tops) anyway.
You only need to take it down 5 to 10 degrees lower to ferment lagers.
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I suppose I would have a chance in the winter. And I could help the Peltier along at first with ice bottles.
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I didn't have a great deal of success with the peltier coolers. They cool down real good but don't maintain temps that well. To do it all again augmenting with frozen bottles would be a must.
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Euge, how were you using them/n what application?
Right now I'm being too cheap to get a controller so I'm jus going to use a tape-on thermometer on the fermentor and set the temp of the cooler to hold at what I'm after. The cooler has a digital temp readout so I'm assuming it won't be too far off whats going on in the fermentor, maybe 5F, with decent recirculation.
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Euge, how were you using them/n what application?
Right now I'm being too cheap to get a controller so I'm jus going to use a tape-on thermometer on the fermentor and set the temp of the cooler to hold at what I'm after. The cooler has a digital temp readout so I'm assuming it won't be too far off whats going on in the fermentor, maybe 5F, with decent recirculation.
Peltier coolers are like anything else, they have to have good control to maintain temp. That said, they do suffer from their inability to cool any further when the hot side and cool side reach a maximum differential, which I think is around 60 degrees. A good heatsink and cooling fan on the hot side is a must.
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Well mess with the current setup and see if it works for you. I pulled mine out of a coleman cooler and used it in two different applications- one with the ranco thermostat I have in my freezer right now.
The first time I swapped it into a igloo ice-cube cooler (blue) and it chilled into the low 50's. I placed it into the insulated tote and it would cool into the mid 60's with a lot of condensation and temp swings. But with some frozen bottles it worked well enough for fermenting ales. I wasn't happy though and abandoned this approach. Bought a freezer.
I think you might have to build and place the appropriate TEC's. There was a mention in Zymurgy with the ghetto chill 9000... I don't think you'll be lagering easily with the cooling unit.
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Well mess with the current setup and see if it works for you. I pulled mine out of a coleman cooler and used it in two different applications- one with the ranco thermostat I have in my freezer right now.
The first time I swapped it into a igloo ice-cube cooler (blue) and it chilled into the low 50's. I placed it into the insulated tote and it would cool into the mid 60's with a lot of condensation and temp swings. But with some frozen bottles it worked well enough for fermenting ales. I wasn't happy though and abandoned this approach. Bought a freezer.
I think you might have to build and place the appropriate TEC's. There was a mention in Zymurgy with the ghetto chill 9000... I don't think you'll be lagering easily with the cooling unit.
Did you provide plenty of ventilation to the heatsink on the back if the device(s).
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Euge, do you understand what I'm talking about doing? I'm not going to dissamble the wine chiller. I am going to put a gallon or so container in the little wine cooler, something that will take up most of the volume of the cooler's interior. Then I intend to pump this chilled coolant using a fountain pump, through the internal chilling coil of the Brewhemoth.
I know the little wine cooler will maintain temp on white wine, I've had several bottles in it before. The question is whether it will keep up with a 5gal ferment, and I think it will at least while the basement is running around 63F. It'd be nice to be abel to cool the wort down to 50F and do lagers, although I have other means for that (keezer).
I can also use the keezer as my cooling source for the reservoir, I just had this other device and thought it would make things more portable. For that matter theres the small frig/freezer, I could put the coolant reservoir in the freezer. I bet that would keep up easily.
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Euge, do you understand what I'm talking about doing? I'm not going to dissamble the wine chiller. I am going to put a gallon or so container in the little wine cooler, something that will take up most of the volume of the cooler's interior. Then I intend to pump this chilled coolant using a fountain pump, through the internal chilling coil of the Brewhemoth.
I know the little wine cooler will maintain temp on white wine, I've had several bottles in it before. The question is whether it will keep up with a 5gal ferment, and I think it will at least while the basement is running around 63F. It'd be nice to be abel to cool the wort down to 50F and do lagers, although I have other means for that (keezer).
I can also use the keezer as my cooling source for the reservoir, I just had this other device and thought it would make things more portable. For that matter theres the small frig/freezer, I could put the coolant reservoir in the freezer. I bet that would keep up easily.
Use lots of insulation. That is a pretty inefficient cooling system.
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Yes I will wrap the system with something if necessary. The one thing i have going for me in making the smaller batch in the larger fermentor, is that the empty space will act as a heat sink to some degree. The internal coil sits low in the fermentor so I think I'll at least get full use of the system's capability.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think it will be able to keep up. The heat transfer out of your 1-gallon jug into the surrounding air will be much less efficient because 1 - air is a poor conductor of heat, and 2 - it has a much lower surface to volume ratio than the coil in the beer.
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I'm going to probably use a 2.5gal reservoir in the peltier-cooled wine chiller, one of those water jugs with the spigot looks like it should fit nicely. I installed the $25 Lowes fountain pump tonight and it looks like it will sustain a recirc rate of around 1/2gal/min. I don't know if it will withstand some ethylene glycol or alcohol, my guess is no snce teh little pump sits in the liquid. I'll put the cooler on a table (level with the fermentor) to reduce the head and maximize flow, I'm probably limited by the 1/4" ID cooling coil ID. Theres no telling what the system will do when the wine cooler is set to around 40F, but I'll be finding out this weekend. I was thinking of doing no-chill with this setup (dumping the trub through the dump valve after cooling and prior to pitching yeast) but I'm not going to push it at first.
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2.5 gallons will get you better capacity, but plastic is worse (because it is a better insulator, slowing the heat transfer from the air in the cooler). It may work for small temperature drops, but I really can't see it chilling a batch of beer in a reasonable time. Try it though :)
I'd do it with just water the first time and see what happens.
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I installed the $25 Lowes fountain pump tonight and it looks like it will sustain a recirc rate of around 1/2gal/min. I don't know if it will withstand some ethylene glycol or alcohol, my guess is no snce teh little pump sits in the liquid. I'll put the cooler on a table (level with the fermentor) to reduce the head and maximize flow,
I suspect you'll find slower is better. You might want to try throttling back to 1L/min and see how it goes.
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2.5 gallons will get you better capacity, but plastic is worse (because it is a better insulator, slowing the heat transfer from the air in the cooler). It may work for small temperature drops, but I really can't see it chilling a batch of beer in a reasonable time. Try it though :)
I'd do it with just water the first time and see what happens.
Good point, I will give the reservoir material, shape and flow rate some more consideration. I suppose it doesn't do any good to pull the cool out of the system right away if the chiller doesn't promptly replenish it. If I do try no-chill I'll let the temp get into double digits before I even try to chill.
The Brewhemoth site says the coil itself will get 25F lower than ambient. I don't think it is going to be the weak link.
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First brew is in the Big Unit, 6gal of black IPA. 1.068 OG and about 1:1 BU:GU. Used some midnight wheat and British chocolate right at the end of the mash. Bittered with Magnum to 50IBU, flavored with Centennial/Amarillo, aroma was Columbus. May dry hop, haven't decided yet.
Edited to add: I decided to go big on this first batch so I'm breing another one of this recipe so it will be a 12gal batch. I already pitched extra yeast, will add the wort later today.
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wow what a great score, you must be psyched! gratz man, use it in good health!
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Yes I'm definitely appreciative and will put it to good use. It does require that I change my process somewhat to accomodate larger batches. I'll still do my smaller batches too, but I think I will do my house brews in the Brewhemoth.
Today I brewed a second batch of black IPA to add to the fermentor just to do it justice, so I'll have 12gal in the fermentor by then end of the evening.
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I finished batch #2 and added it to the fermentor, this one came out a little stronger so the average OG is 1.072 and theres 11.5gal total. Checked the spunding valve this morning and it was at 5psi so we're off to the races. I'll take it to 7psi and ferment a few days at that pressure, then bring it up to 15psi. I'll harvest yeast at some point then bring the pressure up to 30psi for carbonation. I'll most likely use bottled CO2 for that.
The temp is at 64F as judged by a thermocouple taped to the cone of the fermentor. My recirculating chiller is set at 60F, it should keep up since the basement is pretty cool.
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I finished batch #2 and added it to the fermentor, this one came out a little stronger so the average OG is 1.072 and theres 11.5gal total. Checked the spunding valve this morning and it was at 5psi so we're off to the races. I'll take it to 7psi and ferment a few days at that pressure, then bring it up to 15psi. I'll harvest yeast at some point then bring the pressure up to 30psi for carbonation. I'll most likely use bottled CO2 for that.
The temp is at 64F as judged by a thermocouple taped to the cone of the fermentor. My recirculating chiller is set at 60F, it should keep up since the basement is pretty cool.
Lots of questions.
1. Is 5 psi the normal natural CO2 production pressure caused by fermentation?
2. Are you artificially bringing the psi up to 7 and 15? If so, does that help with fermentation? If not is 15psi the max natural fermentation rate?
3. You can carbonate in that fermentor? I thought you could only raise the psi for movement purposes?
very interesting stuff here
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1. Normal fermentation in a closed vessel would quickly put it up to 50+ psi, not terribly safe. Theres a lot of CO2 given off during active fermentation, at 7psi I can actually hear the faint hiss of CO2 slowly leaking off.
2. No the natural production of CO2 is giving me all the pressure I need, the adjustable pressure relief valve (spunding valve) bleeds off whatever extra pressure while maintaining what I have it set at. The 7psi is supposedly the kind of pressure yeast feels at the bottom of a large conical commercial tank.
3. Dale Penrose said they are tested to 160psi, and I've heard of a few people carbonating in the vessels. Some have even served from them, although its more common to counter-pressure transfer to kegs. You can actually use the CO2 produced by the fermentation to prepurge your keg, just leave it attached via a ball lock QD hose for a day or two.
Check out the wiki on pressurized fermentation, or the very long thread on that other homebrew talk site. I'm a poor person to talk about it other than I have maybe the ultimate vessel for this method. It can be done with cornies or sankes as well.
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7psi = 16.2ft. of head
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7psi = 16.2ft. of head
I guess there are fementors that large? Maybe not in a small brewpub but I've seen some that look that tall.
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Yes indeed. Even taller.
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7psi = 16.2ft. of head
I guess there are fementors that large? Maybe not in a small brewpub but I've seen some that look that tall.
There are ones that are much taller than that. Don't know about the 800 barrel ones I have seen, but they are tall.
Don't know the size of the ones on the left, but you can get an idea.
http://www.muel.com/ProductDivisions/ProcessingSystems_Equipment/Beverage/Beer/FermentationTanks.cfm
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So can I conclude that some yeast sees closer to 15psi? Thats what I've read they can take before you start to see fermentation suffering.
I'm running my early ferment at 7psi, but will ramp up to 15psi in a few days just to capture more CO2 in the beer.
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I dialed up to 10psi this morning, although I haven't tested the spgr I have a sense that the fermentation may have peaked or is peaking. I hope to get my triclamp barb in the mail tomorrow so I can hook up a picnic tap to the racking valve and get a sample without having to spray the valve out after opening to collect a sample. If the adapter doesn't come tomorrow I'm going to go ahead and get a spgr sample.
The temp is still around 65F, I turned off my chiller unit.
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I took a gravity sample tonight. As I suspected, the beer has reached 1.016 after just five days, and thats including a 24hr lag time for dry yeast. It has excellent aroma, a rocky head and a very firm bitterness. No sign of diacetyl or other green flavors other than a yeastiness. It might not be quite as black as I wanted but its tough to judge color since the sample had yeast in it. I'm going to keep it at 10psi for another couple of days, then bleed pressure and harvest yeast then dial up the pressure. I might add some priming sugar to ensure adequate carbonation, and maybe some gelatin to speed the clearing.
1.072 to 1.016 in five days, thats fast. 78% attenuation is a perfect result as far as I'm concerned.
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So your beer will be fully carbonated before the keg? I may have to reconsider how I brew.
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Fully carbonated or at least mostly carbonated to where I can just adjust carbonation with my CO2 tank rather than starting from scratch. You can even purge your keg with the gas out of the fermentor, then counter-pressure fill the keg. I'll probably put the kegs on a bathroom scale and fill them by weight.
This is part of the beauty of a pressurizable conical.
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Well, hot dog. That's quite a spiffy setup ya got there, Lennie.
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Yeah I find myself wanting to periodically shine it up like a car, except I don't do that to my car.
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I made up a gas transfer line today and purged a keg with pressure from the Brewhemoth. That brought the pressure doen to 5psi. I harvested yeast from the dump valve into a couple of quart jars, then cleaned up the valve with a spray bottle of starsan. I bled the remainder of the pressure off and added gelatin and an ounce of Cascade for a modest dry-hopping. Sealed back up and pressurized with my CO2 tank. I decided not to add priming sugar this time, I'll try that next time or ramp my pressure up sooner to take advantage of the initial sugars.
I'm still waiting on my barbed triclamp, brewershardware had an item on backorder and that is holding up the works. I really can't rack carbonated beer, I need to transfer using counterpressure and for that I have to have the barbed fitting for the racking port.
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Got my barbed triclamp fitting in the mail yesterday and made up a transfer line this morning, then transferred beer to two cornies using counter-pressure. That worked slick, I used the bathroom scale to tell when it was full. I still managed to blow a little foam out the relief valve but it was simple enough to clean out. I could see a few clumps of trub come through to the first keg but overall the beer looked very clear. One keg is in the fridge now and I will get to have my first pint tonight. And maybe my second and third if it tastes like I hope.
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Glad you are having fun with it. I'll be kegging ten gallons out of my Brewhemoth tonight, 10 gallons out of my other one next week. Partigyle Scotch/Scottish ale up next if I can find some nice chunks of granite........
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Glad you are having fun with it. I'll be kegging ten gallons out of my Brewhemoth tonight, 10 gallons out of my other one next week. Partigyle Scotch/Scottish ale up next if I can find some nice chunks of granite........
Wha???
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Glad you are having fun with it. I'll be kegging ten gallons out of my Brewhemoth tonight, 10 gallons out of my other one next week. Partigyle Scotch/Scottish ale up next if I can find some nice chunks of granite........
Wha???
I'd assume he's talking about the thing where you heat up rocks to plunk them in your wort to heat it
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Glad you are having fun with it. I'll be kegging ten gallons out of my Brewhemoth tonight, 10 gallons out of my other one next week. Partigyle Scotch/Scottish ale up next if I can find some nice chunks of granite........
Wha???
I'd assume he's talking about the thing where you heat up rocks to plunk them in your wort to heat it
that would be cool!
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Look up stein beer. i haven't tried to make it yet, but it would be fun. Not traditional in Scottish beers as far as I know, but would still be interesting.
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Chuck Skypeck took steinbier commercial here in the US at Bosco's in the early '90s. Here is an article about the technique:
Steinbier (http://www.beernotes.com/breakingnews/steinbier.html)
Good references cited at the end.
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Damn can you reconcile making a steinbier and fermenting it in a Brewhemoth stainless steel conical with santiary fittings? Seems like it should be done in a goats stomach or at least a big crock. Hollowed out stump, that would be the medieval equivalent of a Brewhemoth.
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I'm on pint #2 of the black pale ale and I'm happy with some aspects and not so much with others.
First of all, there are no faults in the beer, the fermentation went just fine and finished completely. The color is deeper than I thought, I can't see a light across a pint glass. It may need to clear a bit, I think it will. Theres little black malt flavor coming through which is exactly what I wanted. Theres a restrained hop aroma, certainly not the level I was going for. I have to get used to brewing large batches I guess, that 1oz of dry hops seems have got lost for the most part. The malt flavor is restrained, a hint of chocolate and less biscuit than I was hoping for. The bitterness is medium, also lower than I wanted. Overall the beer is a little muddled but that may clear up as the beer clears. Its certainly drinkable though, and I have a clear way forward on the recipe.
The biggest thing that I am dissappointed about is that the malt flavors aren't more distinct, I was thinking a total lack of oxidation might generate a different level of malty flavors than I've gotten from conventional bucket brewing.
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Sounds like a success to me. First run-through with no infections or off-flavors is a good thing.
Maybe you should invite weaz's friends over to fill a growler or two... ;)
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Sounds like a success to me. First run-through with no infections or off-flavors is a good thing.
Maybe you should invite weaz's friends over to fill a growler or two... ;)
+1
Sounds like some recipe adjustments and your off to the races. :)
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I finally got a functional CIP system put together for the Brewhemoth. My initial attempt failed due to a pump that wouldn't push the water fast enough to turn the large 2" spray ball. I got a testimonial about a 1.2hp trash pump and so I bought a 1.5hp trash pump for $80. I put together a PVC pipe run that brought water from the pump to the ball about 6" down in the fermentor. The pump sits in a reservoir under the fermentor that collects water from the dump and racking valves.
The system works great, there is vigorous spraying in all directions from the spray ball. Even with both valves wide open, this pump now outpaces the draining so every so often there is a pause while the reservoir fills adequately. I'm not sure if a small restriction somewhere in the piping could be used to slow the flow rate, but it isn't a big deal. It cleaned the Brewhemoth nicely.
On the black IPA, I got help with one keg and am about done with the other. It got better with age as usual. I'm considering what to brew for my next Brewhemoth beer. Most likely an APA.
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I finally got a functional CIP system put together for the Brewhemoth. My initial attempt failed due to a pump that wouldn't push the water fast enough to turn the large 2" spray ball. I got a testimonial about a 1.2hp trash pump and so I bought a 1.5hp trash pump for $80. I put together a PVC pipe run that brought water from the pump to the ball about 6" down in the fermentor. The pump sits in a reservoir under the fermentor that collects water from the dump and racking valves.
Which pump did you end up getting?
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Its an Xtreme Power 1.5HP 1100W submersible trash pump. I'd recommend the 1.2HP version, it might not go faster than the draining.
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Its an Xtreme Power 1.5HP 1100W submersible trash pump. I'd recommend the 1.2HP version, it might not go faster than the draining.
How hot is the cleaning liquid you use? Dumb question, but where do you stick the ball? Does it fit through the dump valve or do you go in through the lid?