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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: tschmidlin on December 22, 2011, 08:14:21 AM

Title: help me choose hops
Post by: tschmidlin on December 22, 2011, 08:14:21 AM
I need to order some hops for my English ales and Irish stout, and I'm trying to decide between:

Sonnet™ Golding c.v. Leaf 2011 NEW CROP Size: 1 Lb.  6.6%       $ 18.60

East Kent Golding Leaf Hops NEW 2011 CROP Size: 1 Lb. 4.6%     $ 14.65

First Gold UK Leaf Hops NEW 2011 CROP SIZE: 1 LB 5.1%            $ 12.15

Fuggle UK Leaf Hops NEW 2011 CROP Size: 1 Lb. 4.3%                 $ 14.35

Clearly the First Gold gives the most bang for the buck for bittering, which is all I use it for in my stout, so I might get a pound of that.  I liked the Sonnet golding, but I'm not liking the price this year.  I think I'd pick the EKG over the Fuggles, but I'm open to being convinced.  I'll probably get a pound each of two varieties, so what do you guys think?
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: euge on December 22, 2011, 09:16:31 AM
EKG and Fuggles.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: tschmidlin on December 22, 2011, 09:53:45 AM
Come on euge, you got to give me some reasons.  Those are the easy choices, but I haven't used First Gold.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: eltharyon on December 22, 2011, 12:50:16 PM
EKG, because I said so.

Hmm, then between 1st Gold and Fuggles.  I just don't know the other one and its expensive.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: pinnah on December 22, 2011, 01:19:35 PM
going on about the difference between 14 and 18 bucks?

Personally I would not even worry about the cost difference.
It is a whole pound of hops.  How many gallons can you make with that?

...for the price of a burger.

Sonnet.  because something with ™ behind the name has to be better ;)
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: majorvices on December 22, 2011, 01:52:41 PM
To me Fuggles is more earthy and herbal which suits itself well with darker ales and EKG is a bit more grassy which suits to lighter english styles. I'm afraid I'm not much help with the others. For English pale ales and IPAs I prefer a blend of Challenger and EKG.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 22, 2011, 02:01:22 PM
First Gold can give some apricot flavor and aroma.  Don't know the Sonnet hop, never used it.

I have a pound of the EKG ready to go, and some Willamette which is close to Fuggles.  Of the ones listed, I would order EKG and Fuggles to do classic recipes.
 
There are also some Progress, Challenger, Northdown, and Target pellets in the freezer.  Doing some of the English styles again.

 
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: euge on December 22, 2011, 05:54:45 PM
Come on euge, you got to give me some reasons.  Those are the easy choices, but I haven't used First Gold.

LOL I used them a great deal about 4 years ago! A nice citrus quality to the EKG. I've bittered with Fuggles before followed by EKG. Was a very nice bitter though I usually have both of these as flavor and aroma hops.

I guess the First Gold would be a good purchase for it's dual-usage.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: bluesman on December 22, 2011, 06:01:32 PM
I would go with a pound of each if you could afford it, but if it comes down to money then I would have to give them a good sniff before I could make up my mind. For me it comes down to the aroma for most hops and unfortunately you probably won't be able to sample them.  :-\ Will they send samples?

Anyway...I usually keep EKG'S and Fuggles on hand most of the time. I'm also getting ready to place an order to HD.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: denny on December 22, 2011, 06:06:09 PM
Gary Glass and I have formed a Fuggles Haters Club....;)
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: bo on December 22, 2011, 06:08:12 PM
Gary Glass and I have formed a Fuggles Haters Club....;)

Can I join? I think they're only good for naming a puppy.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: denny on December 22, 2011, 06:10:18 PM
Gary Glass and I have formed a Fuggles Haters Club....;)

Can I join? I think they're only good for naming a puppy.

You're in!
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: mabrungard on December 22, 2011, 06:20:56 PM
Gary Glass and I have formed a Fuggles Haters Club....;)

I don't know why, but I do not like Fuggles either.  I tried them in several brews that I had made before with other hops and came away with an unfavorable impression.  There seemed to be a flavor that I did not agree with.  C'est la Vie. 
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: denny on December 22, 2011, 06:26:08 PM
Gary and I agreed that what a lot of people perceive as "earthy" we find more "dirty" or "woody".  Join the club, Martin!
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: jeffy on December 22, 2011, 06:39:22 PM
Gary and I agreed that what a lot of people perceive as "earthy" we find more "dirty" or "woody".  Join the club, Martin!

Cheesey and musty to me, but I can understand what you mean by "dirty".  Send me a membership card.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: denny on December 22, 2011, 06:41:18 PM
Gary and I agreed that what a lot of people perceive as "earthy" we find more "dirty" or "woody".  Join the club, Martin!

Cheesey and musty to me, but I can understand what you mean by "dirty".  Send me a membership card.

Man, there seem to be a LOT more of us than I had imagined!

And to all the Fuggle lovers, I'm not saying that there's anything bad" about it.  Just personal taste....
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: euge on December 22, 2011, 06:41:52 PM
Oh you guys are nuts. Though I also like Chinook which some think smell like cat-piss. ;D
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: eltharyon on December 22, 2011, 06:42:16 PM
Fuggles did make nice Brownies though.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: bluesman on December 22, 2011, 07:03:36 PM
Gary and I agreed that what a lot of people perceive as "earthy" we find more "dirty" or "woody".  Join the club, Martin!

Cheesey and musty to me, but I can understand what you mean by "dirty".  Send me a membership card.

Man, there seem to be a LOT more of us than I had imagined!

And to all the Fuggle lovers, I'm not saying that there's anything bad" about it.  Just personal taste....

They especially work well with pumkin and ringwood yeast.  ;D
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: majorvices on December 22, 2011, 07:45:08 PM
Gary Glass and I have formed a Fuggles Haters Club....;)

This maybe why I prefer them in darker english style ales, where their contribution is much more subtle. Never cared for them in pales. I think they work well with dark beers though. Something about the "woodiness" or "dirtiness" goes with roasted malt.

And, FWIW, if "dirty" and "woody" are not synonymous with "earthy" I don't know what would be.  ;)
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: alikocho on December 22, 2011, 07:49:26 PM
Gary Glass and I have formed a Fuggles Haters Club....;)


Fuggles and Goldings in everything! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImNKjFGo410 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImNKjFGo410)

Seriously though. I have used homegrown First Gold. Similar to Goldings, but with a bit more of a floral citrus lift. Good for dry hopping.

I like fuggles for dark beers, much more than I like Goldings.

Could I also throw the idea of Challenger into the mix for an English Bitter....
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: jmcamerlengo on December 22, 2011, 08:40:00 PM
Man all the Fuggle haters!  One of my fav beers is Shipyard's Fuggles IPA

I also make a all Fuggle English IPA and use nothing but Fuggles in my Brown Porter and love em!

EKG also for the win...great in bitters, stouts, and just about any english beer.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: morticaixavier on December 22, 2011, 08:44:45 PM
I gotta sign on to the anti-fuggles haters club. My favorite recipe of the day is a simple munich 93% c40 7% more or less equal parts fuggles and goldings every 5 minutes starting at 15 minutes left. 15, 10, 5, 0
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: tschmidlin on December 22, 2011, 08:52:25 PM
I would go with a pound of each if you could afford it,
It's not the money so much as space and usage considerations.  I already have a lot of hops (9-10 lbs), I'm just out of English varieties.  Last time I got a pound (Sonnet Goldings) it took me 8 months to go through it, so 2 lbs should be enough to get me through to next harvest.

I think I'll get the First Gold to give it a try.

Based on the comments I'm wary of the Fuggles now, I haven't used them much in the past and then only for bittering.  And my wife loves the "earthiness" of beets, while I think they just taste like dirt.

That leaves me with Sonnet Goldings or EKG.  I like them both a lot.

going on about the difference between 14 and 18 bucks?
I'm cheap. ;)

Personally I would not even worry about the cost difference.
It might make me feel better if I understood why a hop grown less than 150 miles from me is more expensive than one grown more than 30 times further away.  This is the main source of irritation.

It is a whole pound of hops.  How many gallons can you make with that?
40 last time.

Sonnet.  because something with ™ behind the name has to be better ;)
Sonnet, because it is local.  First Gold and Sonnet it is, placing the order now.

I'll pick up a couple of ounces of Challenger and Fuggles and give them a try too, then maybe they'll be in line for getting a pound next year.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: tygo on December 22, 2011, 09:18:48 PM
I gotta sign on to the anti-fuggles haters club. My favorite recipe of the day is a simple munich 93% c40 7% more or less equal parts fuggles and goldings every 5 minutes starting at 15 minutes left. 15, 10, 5, 0

Same here.  I guess I'm not as crazy about fuggles all by themselves I like it a lot paired equally with EKG.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: morticaixavier on December 22, 2011, 09:28:29 PM
I gotta sign on to the anti-fuggles haters club. My favorite recipe of the day is a simple munich 93% c40 7% more or less equal parts fuggles and goldings every 5 minutes starting at 15 minutes left. 15, 10, 5, 0

Same here.  I guess I'm not as crazy about fuggles all by themselves I like it a lot paired equally with EKG.

yeah, I wouldn't say fuggles is anything close to my favorite hop but it has it's place.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: mabrungard on December 22, 2011, 09:45:01 PM
Tom, you haven't described what the Sonnet Goldings are like and how they differ from Goldings. 

PS: I love EKG.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 22, 2011, 10:18:14 PM
Must say that I don't mind Fuggles.  EKG is the one I like the best. 

I use a whole bunch of Styrian Goldings, which is Fuggles grown in Slovenia.  That does not bring "earthy" to mind when I drink a beer with that.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: tschmidlin on December 22, 2011, 10:26:28 PM
I haven't done them side by side, but to me the Sonnets and EKG are similar.  I find it to be pretty mild, floral and a bit earthy (but definitely not dirt-like).  I only used them for flavor/aroma in one beer (a bitter), the rest of them went in my Dry Irish Stout for bittering.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: pinnah on December 23, 2011, 12:47:24 AM

That leaves me with Sonnet Goldings or EKG.  I like them both a lot.

going on about the difference between 14 and 18 bucks?
I'm cheap. ;)

Personally I would not even worry about the cost difference.
It might make me feel better if I understood why a hop grown less than 150 miles from me is more expensive than one grown more than 30 times further away.  This is the main source of irritation.

It is a whole pound of hops.  How many gallons can you make with that?
40 last time.

Sonnet.  because something with ™ behind the name has to be better ;)
Sonnet, because it is local.  First Gold and Sonnet it is, placing the order now.




 :), I guess I was just saying that for four bucks difference in your choices,
you should pick the hop for what it contributes,
and forget about the cost.

It is true that locally produced goods can be more expensive than mass produced foreign commodities,
and I think it is cool that you will support local agriculture,
despite your admitted cheap nature. ;) 

Cheers to a few more pounds in your stash.

I will say nothing about dirt hops, but my favorite is Willamette dammit.
Title: Re: help me choose hops
Post by: tschmidlin on December 23, 2011, 09:27:43 AM
:), I guess I was just saying that for four bucks difference in your choices,
you should pick the hop for what it contributes,
and forget about the cost.
If they were radically different from each other it would have been a different story, but they're similar and since I mostly use them to bitter the DIS that my neighbors drink the flavor isn't as critical.  I think they'd notice if I bittered with cascades though . . . I'll have to test that. :)