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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: jmcamerlengo on February 28, 2012, 08:50:03 PM

Title: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: jmcamerlengo on February 28, 2012, 08:50:03 PM
Hey all Im thinking about doing my own version of an Orval clone inspired by this issue of Zymurgy.

Brett B is pretty expensive stuff and I usually brew 10 gallon batches.  I know its generally not recommended to make a starter with Lambic Blend but Im assuming thats because the different bugs in there may grow at different rates and throw off the proportions intended by Wyeast.

Is it ok to make a starter with Brett B as normal to double the available cells and pitch half into each 5 gallon carboy in the secondary? If so do you do anything differently to encourage bacteria growth? Thanks!
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: ryang on February 29, 2012, 02:56:42 PM
Lambic blend has bacteria.  A pure culture of brett b only has yeast.

I recall seeing the article, but I've not had time to read anything yet.  Surely the brett is added a secondary vessel or bottling.  In that case, I'd just use one yeast pack and split that between the two carboys.  It's strong stuff and resilient to punishment (under-pitch, high alcohol environment, etc)

For 100% brett pitches, I make a starter per usual practice.  They can be sluggish to start sometimes, but that's not a problem in a pre-fermented beer.
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: Jimmy K on February 29, 2012, 03:02:22 PM
I also remember orval being fermented with a relatively clean yeast and bottled with brett.
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: jmcamerlengo on February 29, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
I also remember orval being fermented with a relatively clean yeast and bottled with brett.

Yes I was able to get a hold of their strain(WLP515) Belgian Bastogne Ale.  I was going to Brett in the secondary as opposed to bottles.  I may make a starter to double to cell count and pitch half into each secondary carboy.
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: Jimmy K on February 29, 2012, 03:40:39 PM
Makes sense then.
 
I saw on a white labs Q&A that you should double your starter sizes to get the same growth as with Saccharomyces.
 
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp650.html (http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp650.html)
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: jmcamerlengo on February 29, 2012, 04:03:02 PM
Makes sense then.
 
I saw on a white labs Q&A that you should double your starter sizes to get the same growth as with Saccharomyces.
 
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp650.html (http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp650.html)

It also says its very productive at under pitching hmmm...to starter or not to starter. That is the question! lol.

Im thinking a 1L starter to achieve around 1 doubling and make em extra active.
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: udubdawg on February 29, 2012, 05:47:18 PM
I also remember orval being fermented with a relatively clean yeast and bottled with brett.

Yes I was able to get a hold of their strain(WLP515) Belgian Bastogne Ale.  I was going to Brett in the secondary as opposed to bottles.  I may make a starter to double to cell count and pitch half into each secondary carboy.

Did you get Bastogne, or did you get 515?
I'm pretty sure I just put WLP515 in a De Koninck clone a few days ago...

cheers--
--Michael

Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: jmcamerlengo on February 29, 2012, 06:18:53 PM
My Bad Bastogne WLP510
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: hoser on February 29, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
No need for a starter for Brett B. if you are using it for a secondary fermentation.  You want the Brett to be stressed to produce those characteristic funky flavors and aroma. 1 tube per 10 gallons is more than enough, or just use the dregs of a bottle of Orval.  I generally use 2 bottles/5 gallons with good success.  I usually start to taste the Brett within 10-14 days.  And yes, WLP510 Bastogne yeast is reportedly the Orval strain.
Title: Re: Making a starter with Brett B
Post by: jmcamerlengo on February 29, 2012, 08:11:02 PM
Great info hoser. Thanks!