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General Category => Going Pro => Topic started by: jjflash on March 03, 2012, 12:25:13 AM

Title: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: jjflash on March 03, 2012, 12:25:13 AM
Is there any other manufacturer of craft brewer mash filtration technology systems besides Meura and their Monsville system? I know the Alaskan Brewing Company is now using this system. Perhaps one or two other craft brewers in the USA. Of couse the really big brewers on their really big systems, but I am not interested in that massive scale.

I also heard a rumor that Paul Farnsworth is down south somewhere building a full custom mash filtration system - for some big name brewer I would venture a guess.  Rumor? Gossip? Straight out lie? Any insider info on this?
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: majorvices on March 03, 2012, 02:42:34 PM
I have no idea, a regular old false bottom works perfectly well for most breweries. why would the need be for something more complex? I can see the benefit of adding a grant, but a "mash filter"? Not sure what the point is.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: tschmidlin on March 03, 2012, 11:36:35 PM
I think the breweries that use mash filters are pulverizing the grain with a hammer mill or something like it, so they need a better strainer than a false bottom.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: majorvices on March 03, 2012, 11:52:46 PM
I see. So you can get a higher yield. Interesting.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: jjflash on March 04, 2012, 05:13:57 AM
A mash filtration system is not a simple mash filter. It is a highly complex, high volume production system, until recently used only by mega pro brewerys.

It is reported in the literature that 25% of the world's beer is made on mash filtration systems. This is done for simple economic reasons - best efficiency, more production, more energy efficient -> more profit -> $$$. Some of these systems run 14 batches a day!
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bo on March 04, 2012, 12:50:06 PM
A mash filtration system is not a simple mash filter. It is a highly complex, high volume production system, until recently used only by mega pro brewerys.

It is reported in the literature that 25% of the world's beer is made on mash filtration systems. This is done for simple economic reasons - best efficiency, more production, more energy efficient -> more profit -> $$$. Some of these systems run 14 batches a day!

I can certainly see where a finely crushed grain would yield better efficiency but definitely need filtration. Probably out of my price range but interesting.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: narvin on March 04, 2012, 12:53:32 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bluesman on March 04, 2012, 04:03:42 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bo on March 04, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bluesman on March 04, 2012, 05:12:46 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?

Last time I checked it was.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: majorvices on March 04, 2012, 05:13:30 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?

yeah, what's your point?
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bo on March 04, 2012, 05:18:26 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?

yeah, what's your point?

This isn't the Going Small Pro section.;)

If I was going pro I'd want to investigate all equipment, so I can brew the best possible beer. Seems like some are shooting the horse before it gets out of the gate.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: majorvices on March 04, 2012, 05:23:49 PM
I'm interested in learning about any technology that has to do with homebrewing or pro brewing. certainly is something I am interested in discussing. probably not something I will be adding to my brewery anytime soon though. but I agree it is fun to talk about it.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bo on March 04, 2012, 05:25:52 PM
I'm interested in learning about any technology that has to do with homebrewing or pro brewing. certainly is something I am interested in discussing. probably not something I will be adding to my brewery anytime soon though. but I agree it is fun to talk about it.

I love talking about all things brewing, pro or home. :D
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bluesman on March 04, 2012, 05:26:48 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?

yeah, what's your point?

This isn't the Going Small Pro section.;)

If I was going pro I'd want to investigate all equipment, so I can brew the best possible beer. Seems like some are shooting the horse before it gets out of the gate.

This isn't the going large pro-brewing section either.  ;) This is all things pro-brewing.

Investigate until your heart's content. We will state our opinions here just as you've done.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bo on March 04, 2012, 05:41:09 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?

yeah, what's your point?

This isn't the Going Small Pro section.;)

If I was going pro I'd want to investigate all equipment, so I can brew the best possible beer. Seems like some are shooting the horse before it gets out of the gate.

This isn't the going large pro-brewing section either.  ;) This is all things pro-brewing.

Investigate until your heart's content. We will state our opinions here just as you've done.

WOW Not sure where that came from. I'm just trying to keep it open to all discussions. Sorry, I'll back out of the thread.
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: bluesman on March 04, 2012, 05:50:16 PM
So, what's the point?  On a small scale, would you ever make back the money that it cost?  It won't make better beer.  It sounds like it might actually make worse beer... super high efficiency can come at the expense of flavor (which is not a problem for the large batch macro lager producers).

+1

Sounds like it really won't benefit the small pro-brewer. At least from a cost savings standpoint.

But isn't this the Pro Brewing area?

yeah, what's your point?

This isn't the Going Small Pro section.;)

If I was going pro I'd want to investigate all equipment, so I can brew the best possible beer. Seems like some are shooting the horse before it gets out of the gate.

This isn't the going large pro-brewing section either.  ;) This is all things pro-brewing.

Investigate until your heart's content. We will state our opinions here just as you've done.

WOW Not sure where that came from. I'm just trying to keep it open to all discussions. Sorry, I'll back out of the thread.

No need for an apology Bo. We're just discussing mash filtration technology systems.  :)
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: jjflash on March 04, 2012, 11:01:24 PM
My additional two cents:

Alaskan Brewing Company has converted to it.
Full Sail has converted to it.
My personal prediction:
We will see more craft brewers convert to mash filtration technology systems.
This is cutting edge technology.
The new turnkey systems are 50hl and 100hl.
Pefectly sized for serious craft brewers.
Not for homebrewers!
For homebrewers dreaming about going pro!
Title: Re: mash filtration technology systems?
Post by: wiley on March 07, 2012, 03:33:30 AM
I listened to the guys from Alaskan Brewing Company speak about their mash filtration equipment at the last year's CBC. I was trying to find the presentations in the midst of the "Attendee Bag" schwag, but I'm not finding it. From what I recall, their justification was two-fold:

1) Efficiency (as stated)

2) The cost of shipping wet, spent grain became a huge factor. Being in Juneau, they had no local source to offload spent grain and had to ship it to the lower 48. With the mash filter, they were able to extract more wort from the "grain bed" thus reducing the residual moisture content of the spent grain and the resulting shipping costs.

The biggest cons they talked about were the change in milling and the lost ability to do small batches. As Tom mentioned, they had to invest in a new hammer mill, and there was a relatively narrow production band for mash sizes -- i.e. they couldn't produce huge beers, small beers or lower volume batches.

IMHO, I think wide adoption is going to be limited to the larger regional breweries with established brands who are looking expanding with new plant builds. Even then, I have a hard time seeing established breweries adopt the technology at the same time as a major expansion. Maintaining consistency throughout those kinds of changes seems like a huge undertaking.

I'm interested to see which way New Belgium and Sierra Nevada end up going with their Eastern US expansion plans -- speaking of, has anyone heard if mash filtration is in either's budgets?

I'll dig around a bit more and see if I can come up with the slides from the presentation or at least more info.