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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: redzim on March 10, 2012, 01:49:42 PM

Title: water for Dortmunder
Post by: redzim on March 10, 2012, 01:49:42 PM
I've never brewed this style before and I'm looking for suggestions on water recipe. I found Blatz's which is this: Ca 107, Mg 4, Na 21, Cl 70, SO4 115, HCO3 67, RA 3 (all in ppm).

This seems really hard to me...   I can almost get there using Kai's water calculator, starting with distilled water and adding gypsum, epsom, table salt, CaCl2, baking soda, and chalk... by playing with all of those I can get a water that is Ca 83, Mg 4, Na 19, Cl 60, SO4 116, HCO3 72, and RA of -3.....  I can't seem to get all of them to line up with Blatz's numbers....

there must be a simpler way to do this, it anyways seems counterproductive to be adding gypsum/epsom/CaCl2 to a mash at the same time as baking soda and chalk, seems kind of like they are going to be fighting each other...

so bottom line is, does anyone have a good water recipe for a Dortmunder???

tx all
Title: Re: water for Dortmunder
Post by: nateo on March 10, 2012, 02:44:38 PM
It's common for German brewers to use decarbonation by boiling. So whatever amount of chalk they started with in their water, they probably precipitated a lot out before they used it to brew. So I wouldn't add any alkalinity to your water unless it's necessary for your mash pH. I'd just focus on getting the flavor ions where you want them.
Title: Re: water for Dortmunder
Post by: tom on March 10, 2012, 05:38:22 PM
Look up Dortmunder's water in your homebrew book.  It's really hard.  Don't know if they if they brew with it though.  According to the BJCP, Dortmunder Export may have a "minerally" taste from the water.
Title: Re: water for Dortmunder
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 10, 2012, 05:55:17 PM
Then there are the stories that one brewer from Dortmund said that his brewery has a big RO system, and add minerals.  Read that on the Internet, so it must be true.
Title: Re: water for Dortmunder
Post by: nateo on March 10, 2012, 06:23:17 PM
I've seen some radically different water profiles given for "historic" cities. Those profiles change over time, too. Just because one well in Dublin two hundred years ago had high bicarbonates so it worked for their stout, that doesn't mean you should try to emulate any arbitrary water profile someone listed for a city.

In my experience, trying to emulate water profiles is a good way to break something that wasn't broken. The worst non-infected beer I've ever made was a pale ale with water trying to emulate Burton.
Title: Re: water for Dortmunder
Post by: dcbc on March 10, 2012, 07:06:57 PM
I have only brewed one Dortmunder, but it was very good.  I did my mash adjustment with acid and added salts to my kettle.  My final (kettle) profile was

Ca 65
Mg 3
Na 15.5
Cl 63
SO4 78
HCO3 51
Title: Re: water for Dortmunder
Post by: mabrungard on March 11, 2012, 01:22:17 AM
The Dortmund profile is one that I cannot confirm.  The city no longer gets its water locally and I dont' have a way of finding that local profile on line.  The city now gets its water from another valley located away from the city since its much better water. 

The Dortmund profile included in Bru'n Water is rock hard and highly mineralized.  In retrospect, that is probably the reason the city went to the expense of finding a new water source.  The local water was not that great to drink or clean with and its tough to treat since most of the hardness is permanent. 

The thing about the profile included in Bru'n Water is that since its rock hard, the resulting RA is actually quite low.  It should produce a good mash pH with a light colored beer grist, but the minerally character is likely to come through in the flavor.  I think that profile is likely to be reasonably accurate.