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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: jmcamerlengo on March 13, 2012, 03:51:54 PM

Title: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 13, 2012, 03:51:54 PM
So Im doing a BIG RIS this weekend with 39 lbs of grain mashing in at 1.1 qts per lb my expected mash volume is 13.98 gallons.  Has anyone tried this size grain bill in a converted sankey keg? Im using norcalbrewing false bottom. I did a BarleyWine with 35.5 pounds of grain and didnt have any issues, just wondering how much grain any of you guys have successfully stuffed into a keg.

Share your horror stories or experiences!
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: bluesman on March 13, 2012, 03:59:57 PM
You'll be pushing the limits on that one. It will probably fit with about an inch to spare. Maybe...depending on how much dead space your false bottom consumes. I've done 38 lbs with a 1:1 (water/grain) ratio and it was pushing the limit in a 58qt cooler w/o a false bottom.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 13, 2012, 04:02:33 PM
I get a little shy of a gallon of deadspace from the false bottom, so im actually doughing in with 10 gallons of water and 39 lbs of grain. 

I think itll fit, the question is will the pump have issues with re-circulating! We shall soon find out.  My back up plan is toss some DME in the boil to replace some of the 2 row.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: morticaixavier on March 13, 2012, 04:11:21 PM
does the pump care what the total volume of liquid it's trying to move is? don't know, just asking.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 13, 2012, 04:24:31 PM
No its a March 815. The only thing I can see happening is the sheer weight and volume of everything compressing the steel dip tube a little bit to the bottom of the keg.  May try and pit a shim or something under there for this brew.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: bo on March 13, 2012, 04:27:39 PM
does the pump care what the total volume of liquid it's trying to move is? don't know, just asking.

It does if you're pushing it up a pipe.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: morticaixavier on March 13, 2012, 04:33:55 PM
does the pump care what the total volume of liquid it's trying to move is? don't know, just asking.

It does if you're pushing it up a pipe.

I see, so if the volume is above the output of the pump i can see how that would have an effect
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: bluesman on March 13, 2012, 04:35:58 PM
I get a little shy of a gallon of deadspace from the false bottom, so im actually doughing in with 10 gallons of water and 39 lbs of grain. 

I think itll fit, the question is will the pump have issues with re-circulating! We shall soon find out.  My back up plan is toss some DME in the boil to replace some of the 2 row.

Well...you'll definitely be testing the limits of your sytem.  :)
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 13, 2012, 04:40:09 PM
I get a little shy of a gallon of deadspace from the false bottom, so im actually doughing in with 10 gallons of water and 39 lbs of grain. 

I think itll fit, the question is will the pump have issues with re-circulating! We shall soon find out.  My back up plan is toss some DME in the boil to replace some of the 2 row.

Well...you'll definitely be testing the limits of your sytem.  :)

Thats the plan! Here is the recipe if anyone's interested!

26 lbs 2-Row
3 lbs Roasted Barley
2 lbs Black Patent
2 lbs Chocolate-English
2 lbs Flaked Barley
4 lbs Munich
2 lbs C-80

Collect 14 gallons- Boil 2 hours

Magnum @ 60 min
Centennial @ 45,30,15,10,5 min

Est 1.100 O.G. 97 IBUs

Split batch into 5 gallon WLP001 in one WY1084 in the other.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: tschmidlin on March 13, 2012, 04:56:34 PM
does the pump care what the total volume of liquid it's trying to move is? don't know, just asking.

It does if you're pushing it up a pipe.

I see, so if the volume is above the output of the pump i can see how that would have an effect
The volume doesn't matter, only the height it has to overcome.  If you haven't moved your pump or the outlet there should be no change.

You're definitely going to be pushing it - I would get your strike water set, and half of the base malt, then the specialty malts, then add as much of the rest of the base malt as you can fit.  Make up any that you couldn't fit with DME, and I'd have some extra DME or sugar on hand in case you miss your gravity.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 13, 2012, 04:57:49 PM
does the pump care what the total volume of liquid it's trying to move is? don't know, just asking.

It does if you're pushing it up a pipe.

I see, so if the volume is above the output of the pump i can see how that would have an effect
The volume doesn't matter, only the height it has to overcome.  If you haven't moved your pump or the outlet there should be no change.

You're definitely going to be pushing it - I would get your strike water set, and half of the base malt, then the specialty malts, then add as much of the rest of the base malt as you can fit.  Make up any that you couldn't fit with DME, and I'd have some extra DME or sugar on hand in case you miss your gravity.

Exactly my plan!
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: bo on March 13, 2012, 04:59:30 PM
does the pump care what the total volume of liquid it's trying to move is? don't know, just asking.

It does if you're pushing it up a pipe.

I see, so if the volume is above the output of the pump i can see how that would have an effect
The volume doesn't matter, only the height it has to overcome.  If you haven't moved your pump or the outlet there should be no change.

You're definitely going to be pushing it - I would get your strike water set, and half of the base malt, then the specialty malts, then add as much of the rest of the base malt as you can fit.  Make up any that you couldn't fit with DME, and I'd have some extra DME or sugar on hand in case you miss your gravity.

Exactly my plan!

Look at the specification for feet of head. That will tell you how far vertically you can push it.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: tschmidlin on March 13, 2012, 05:14:24 PM
Exactly my plan!
Perfect, what could go wrong? ;D


Look at the specification for feet of head. That will tell you how far vertically you can push it.
Exactly. :)
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: bo on March 13, 2012, 05:17:17 PM
Exactly my plan!
Perfect, what could go wrong? ;D


Look at the specification for feet of head. That will tell you how far vertically you can push it.
Exactly. :)

That and Feet of Head just has a certain ring to it. :D
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: tom on March 13, 2012, 11:19:02 PM
What efficiency are you planning for?  Did you get 10 gallons from your barleywine mash?  I do that for 6 gallons of barleywine.

I would leave out a gallon or two of hot liquor and then mix it back in after the rest is stirred in.
I get a little shy of a gallon of deadspace from the false bottom, so im actually doughing in with 10 gallons of water and 39 lbs of grain. 

I think itll fit, the question is will the pump have issues with re-circulating! We shall soon find out.  My back up plan is toss some DME in the boil to replace some of the 2 row.

Well...you'll definitely be testing the limits of your sytem.  :)

Thats the plan! Here is the recipe if anyone's interested!

26 lbs 2-Row
3 lbs Roasted Barley
2 lbs Black Patent
2 lbs Chocolate-English
2 lbs Flaked Barley
4 lbs Munich
2 lbs C-80

Collect 14 gallons- Boil 2 hours

Magnum @ 60 min
Centennial @ 45,30,15,10,5 min

Est 1.100 O.G. 97 IBUs

Split batch into 5 gallon WLP001 in one WY1084 in the other.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: corkybstewart on March 13, 2012, 11:37:49 PM
I've done an RIS with 42 pounds of malt(and a pound of molasses)and 11 gallons of water in my converted keg .  The only issue is sparging, it takes forever because the grain bed will compact considerably.  I prefer fly sparging on a grain bill this big instead of doing 5 or six "batches" required to collect 13 or 14 gallons of wort.  Efficiency sucks on a grain bill this big but it can be done.
The last time I brewed this beer I used my old ZapPap mash tun for about 10 pounds of the malt and boiled it in a smaller kettle.  I collected a total of about 17 gallons before the refractometer indicated the runoff was around 1.010, and it took almost 3 hours to boil it back to the 11 gallons I wanted.
But it was worth it.  I finished the second keg of that batch almost 3 years after I brewed it and it was still an amzing beer.  I had to keep telling my friends the keg was empty or they would have finished it in no time.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 14, 2012, 03:07:59 PM
I did get 10 gallons out of my barleywine mash and achieved 84% efficiency on that mash, I calculated this one at 82% efficiency figuring a slight drop with a few xtra pounds of grain.  Ill also have plenty of rice hulls on hand to help the sparge!
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: PSUhomebrewer on March 14, 2012, 04:17:03 PM
The max I heard for a keg is 49, I've done a batch with 43. If you want to see an fool around with your water to grist ratio you coul use the "can I mash it" calculator.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 14, 2012, 04:36:39 PM
I have done 39 pounds.  Not too bad, but it had to be stirred with care so that some didn't slop over the lip of the opening.  Efficiency for that one was about 72-73% if I remember.
Title: Re: Converted Sankey Keg Volume Limits
Post by: jmcamerlengo on March 19, 2012, 07:24:37 PM
Brewed this up yesterday. It all fit and I got 77% efficiency. The pump didnt clog once. I just so happened to guesstimate 77% in Beersmith at the last minute so everything was perfect. Also hit a pH of 5.5 which is just what I was looking for. Hit 1.100 OG. The brew gods were with me yesterday.