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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: ckpash88 on April 09, 2012, 06:22:11 PM

Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 09, 2012, 06:22:11 PM
So I am off to the lhbs to get rhizomes. I live in Minnesota and I am not sure what kind to get. I am not a hop head so high alpha acid hops are not my cup of tea. I like pilsners and blondes but I also want some for APAs. I am getting to different kinds. Any suggestions?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pyrite on April 09, 2012, 06:39:01 PM
Liberty and Magnum do well here in Sothern California. I've used Liberty in a number of lagers, ales, and Ambers.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 09, 2012, 07:10:39 PM
I went with cascade and hallertau.


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Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 09, 2012, 09:12:12 PM
Now I am just curious with when I should plant them?

How long can they sit in the fridge befor I plant them?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Slowbrew on April 09, 2012, 09:18:31 PM
I have not actually planted hops but did a ton of research a couple years ago.  If you soil is thawed, you can plant them now.  Mulch them in well with composted manure and get your trellis system figured out.

Paul
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: tschmidlin on April 09, 2012, 09:43:45 PM
Yeah, as soon as the ground is soft enough to dig it'll be fine.  They might get moldy in the fridge if you don't have good circulation, I always like to plant ASAP.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: beerstache on April 09, 2012, 09:50:47 PM
I live in Northern Michigan and my hops are about 3-4" high right now thanks to that early warm spell we had.  I would plant now, but use straw mulch to protect them from any freezing/frost.
I'm growing cascade, nugget and chinook, they seem to do best up here.  I tried fuggles/hallertau and other european varieties and they didnt grow to well.  Stick with domestic.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 10, 2012, 12:30:20 AM
So let's say I plant them tomorrow and they grow a couple of inches and there is a freezeand the tops freeze am I SOL?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 10, 2012, 01:10:24 AM
My established plants came through the freezes here just fine.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 10, 2012, 04:21:17 AM
I am a little skeptical lol. My ground is soft so I can dig a whole and plant. So if I plant tomorrow and the top freezes after it's sticking out of the ground I will be ok?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pyrite on April 10, 2012, 04:54:19 AM
In my experience, hop rhizomes are very resilient, and can withstand harsh treatment.  Although I don't live in or around your area, I do live in dessert like conditions, where the rhizomes have displayed much strength against the brutal heat.

I say plant away. But if you want peace of mind, you could start them in small pots to develop their roots and move them inside if it freezes.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: tschmidlin on April 10, 2012, 04:58:39 AM
How big around are they and how many shoots can you see on the rhizomes?  If they only have one shoot, it grows and then freezes and dies, you're probably SOL unless it has been going for a while or is a nice fat rhizome.

If there is more than one bud per rhizome, it should be fine even if it freezes unless it is a crazy hard freeze and all of them have grown above the soil.

I would check the weather for the next week or so.  If you're not expecting a hard freeze, plant them.  Then keep an eye on the weather - once they sprout above the soil, if you are worried about a freeze just cover them with an upturned pot overnight, they should be fine.

Btw, I just checked MN weather - there is a freeze alert for a good chunk of the state, so I would wait until Wednesday or Thursday and then plant them.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Pinski on April 10, 2012, 05:06:28 AM
If they're still just beginning to bud out from the rhizome I'd go ahead and plant them 3-4" down. It's going to take them several days to break the surface. 
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: jmcamerlengo on April 10, 2012, 02:04:22 PM
How many rhizomes do you guys normally plant per hop variety? Ive heard 4 rhizomes per hill is the way to go from hopsdirect, but thats in a farming setting.  Is 1 rhizome sufficient to get decent yields of each hop after 3 years or so? What kind of yields do you see from 1 single rhizome after year 1, 2, 3 etc?
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Pinski on April 10, 2012, 02:51:10 PM
How many rhizomes do you guys normally plant per hop variety? Ive heard 4 rhizomes per hill is the way to go from hopsdirect, but thats in a farming setting.  Is 1 rhizome sufficient to get decent yields of each hop after 3 years or so? What kind of yields do you see from 1 single rhizome after year 1, 2, 3 etc?
I guess it depends on how big of a hurry you're in. First years don't typically produce a lot. If you're dying for at least a brews worth this year you might go two or three.  I've always just planted one rhizome per mound and found that if they make through the first season and winter there's more than enought shoots that come up in year two and after that it's game on.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on April 10, 2012, 03:04:34 PM
I planted mine in rows next to the south side of the house to try to provide a little shade in those blistering hot summer months. Planted about 5 feet apart, centenial (5, only 4 up so far) along one section separated from the rest as they seem to spread and tangle alot underground. Cascade (5, all 5 are up)along the sunniest wall because I have heard that they are prolific on the foliage front and one single sterling (no sign yet but it's only been a week, the guy who gave me the rhyzomes only had 1 sterling and it was only 3 years old so there wasn't really much pruning to do) on the west side of the house in front of the bedroom window so it will help us sleep when we have the window open.

we have had a couple light frosts since they broke ground but no one seems to mind. I would guess that right next to the house they are probably kept a little warmer than they would be in the middle of the yard.

I couple tricks for early spring emerging plants in colder climates:

Plant on a north facing slope if you have one. This will discourage early growth and decrease the chance that they will emerge/bud(for trees) before the last killing frost has happened. You might also be able to build up a bit of a mound of earth (or earth and logs: google hugelkulture) and plant on the north side of that. I don't know if that would work or not though.

Place large dark colored rocks near the base of your planting. If you are getting warm sunny weather the rocks will heat up a little during the day and help buffer night time temp swings a bit. Also think about prevailing winds and try to figure out a way to block them a bit to further moderate night time temps.

And as several others have mentioned you can mulch with straw, cover with pots or even mulch with slightly under finished compost.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: tschmidlin on April 10, 2012, 04:18:20 PM
How many rhizomes do you guys normally plant per hop variety? Ive heard 4 rhizomes per hill is the way to go from hopsdirect, but thats in a farming setting.  Is 1 rhizome sufficient to get decent yields of each hop after 3 years or so? What kind of yields do you see from 1 single rhizome after year 1, 2, 3 etc?
One rhizome is plenty if you are patient and have a good planting spot.  After a few years in the new house I wasn't getting a crop so I ripped them out, but they were not planted in a good sunny place, just the best place I was willing to put them.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Delo on April 10, 2012, 04:34:38 PM
How many rhizomes do you guys normally plant per hop variety? Ive heard 4 rhizomes per hill is the way to go from hopsdirect, but thats in a farming setting.  Is 1 rhizome sufficient to get decent yields of each hop after 3 years or so? What kind of yields do you see from 1 single rhizome after year 1, 2, 3 etc?
For me it depended on the quality of the rhizomes. The first time I ordered hops, the rhizomes were pretty sad looking so I planted two per hill in 3 hills to increase the odds that a plant would grow.  The second time I ordered hop rhizomes, they looked pretty healthy so I planted one per hill and one rhizome in each of two large pots.  Last year I split off two Willamette hops rhizomes and planted them each in a new hill.  They didn’t produce any hops last year, but they did grow and are already growing at the same rate as my other Willamette this year.  I also planted the potted hops in the ground and got a small amount of hops in their second year.  I live in more of an urban environment so I dont have a lot of choices.

A lot of production depends on the weather, their location, and how much you take care of them. The first year I planted hops, I got hop plants to grow in all three hills and some hops to harvest the first year.   I didn’t really expect too much because the first year really establishes the plant itself.  I had a lot of hop production the second year, but the weather was great and I was diligent with their upkeep.   The third year was almost nothing because the weather was terribly hot and dry and I wasn’t keeping up with them like I should have been. Last year the weather wasn’t ideal and I was somewhere in the middle of keeping up with them and I got a decent yield.  This year I plan on being better about tending to them and I'm hoping the weather cooperates.  There is nothing like stuffing your freezer with vacuum sealed bags of your own hops.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: bluesman on April 10, 2012, 04:44:23 PM
I bought 2 Centennial Rhizomes about three weeks ago.  I started them in a 16" pot inside my house, as I didn't want to take any chances with the weather.  I used Miracle Grow potting mix and buried the rhizomes about 2" below the surface vertically with the buds pointing up.  The hops have since emerged from the soil and are about 12-16" long now.  I am planning to transplant them outside very soon.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: erockrph on April 10, 2012, 05:26:11 PM
Has anyone here had any luck growing their hops in pots? I haven't settled on (read: convinced my wife) a final location for my hops, so I planted my rhizomes in pots for now with the intent of trialing them in a couple of different spots for the first season or two.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: saintpierre on April 10, 2012, 05:55:06 PM
Has anyone here had any luck growing their hops in pots? I haven't settled on (read: convinced my wife) a final location for my hops, so I planted my rhizomes in pots for now with the intent of trialing them in a couple of different spots for the first season or two.

When I was renting a house in Oregon, I planted cascade and chinook in half whiskey barrels.  they grew alright... I only had them 2 seasons before my wife got pregos.  The first year they were 12-15 feet tall and didn't have any useable harvest and the second year they got 15 to 20 feet tall and I harvested enought for a 5 gallon batch fresh hop beer.

If you use whiskey barrels I would recommend drilling drainage holes and proping the barrel on something to let air under the pot the wood will mold or maybe that is a PNW thing...  Also as morti mentioned try to protect from the sunniest part of the day or have a soaker on timer to keep the roots cool.

YMMV but just my 2 cents.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 10, 2012, 08:27:42 PM
How deep should they be planted?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: bluesman on April 10, 2012, 08:35:36 PM
How deep should they be planted?


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Plant them a few inches below the soil vertically.  The highest part of the rhizome should be a few inches below the soil.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 10, 2012, 08:37:39 PM
Why do people say plant them horizontally?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: bluesman on April 10, 2012, 08:40:27 PM
Why do people say plant them horizontally?


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They grow best vertically, according to everything I have researched.  From my personal experience they grow well when planted vertically.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Slowbrew on April 10, 2012, 08:53:31 PM
Why do people say plant them horizontally?


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They grow best vertically, according to everything I have researched.  From my personal experience they grow well when planted vertically.

It probably doesn't matter a great deal either way.  If you watch the videos from Fresh Hops they plant them vertically.  If the pros do it, there's likely a reason.  I don't know what that reason is but I don't argue with people who make a living at it.   8)

Paul
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on April 10, 2012, 09:03:49 PM
Why do people say plant them horizontally?


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They grow best vertically, according to everything I have researched.  From my personal experience they grow well when planted vertically.

It probably doesn't matter a great deal either way.  If you watch the videos from Fresh Hops they plant them vertically.  If the pros do it, there's likely a reason.  I don't know what that reason is but I don't argue with people who make a living at it.   8)

Paul

IANAH (I Am Not A Horticulturalist) but I suspect is has to do with how well and fast it develops roots. When the crown is sending out new bits they can either be rhyzomes (so it can spread) or roots (so it can eat) I suspect that the orientation of the member has something to do with how the plant decides this. So by planting veritcally you encourage the plant to produce roots rather than more rhyzomes and since it is still getting established this could be beneficial.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pyrite on April 10, 2012, 09:25:18 PM
When I pant rhizomes, I make sure that the eye of the shoot is pointing in the vertical direction just about an inch under the soil. Usually that makes it so the rhizome is in the vertical position.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: aa7yy on April 10, 2012, 10:10:39 PM
Might want to touch base with these guys.     http://snakeriverbrewers.org/index.php?action=forum
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: b-hoppy on April 11, 2012, 05:13:04 PM
morti is on the right track.  They'll grow even if you plant them upside down, but for easier maintenance,  vertically will help keep them from spreading too much.  If you plant horizontally, some of the buds are angled upward (at about a 45 degree angle) and others downward at the same angle.  The downward oriented buds will grow down and away from the rhizome and may emerge a couple feet away.  All along this underground shoot, there will be more rings of buds that can continue this process year after year with more shoots popping up further and further away.  So, either way will work but it helps to understand the consequences before hand.  Hop ON!
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 16, 2012, 04:01:57 AM
I am putting them in pots and letting them grow.

When the pop out I am going to cut the bottoms out and put the half pot with plant in the ground so I gave a guard to mow around.

I think it's a good plan maybe?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: tschmidlin on April 16, 2012, 06:20:37 AM
Sure.  Might help keep the rhizomes from spreading too.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on April 16, 2012, 12:17:38 PM
Has anyone here had any luck growing their hops in pots? I haven't settled on (read: convinced my wife) a final location for my hops, so I planted my rhizomes in pots for now with the intent of trialing them in a couple of different spots for the first season or two.

I'm in North Florida and have to grow them in pots. I was told by a local brewer that he could only get Zeus to grow here and he's right. I bought Zeus and Cascade, the zeus are already 15+ feet and the cascade never grew more than an inch, and never sprouted any roots. I thought it was a fluke so I bought 2 more cascade rhizomes and they appear to be doing the same thing.

Anyway, the zeus seem to be doing just fine in a pot...now I just have to keep spraying them with insecticidal soap because of the damned bugs.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 20, 2012, 08:15:22 PM
If I potted them how long should expect till they sprout out and say hello?


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Title: Re: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: erockrph on April 20, 2012, 11:08:01 PM
If I potted them how long should expect till they sprout out and say hello

I planted mine 2 weeks ago. Mt Hood poked through in 10 days, Cascades in 11 and just seeing the tip of the first Willamette bine today on day 15. YMMV, obviously.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 21, 2012, 03:56:29 PM
I have one of my hallertau saying hello already and I plants them on Tuesday.

I planted cascade which I heard will work well in Minnesota but I also planted hallertau was that a bad choice?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: eltharyon on April 21, 2012, 04:47:40 PM
I Planted almost full plants that I pulled out of a garden from a club member.  Cascade, Nugget and Sterling.  They got a slow start I think from shock but have been going a couple of inches a day over the last few days.  I didn't clip too many sprouts, I figured more green=more food to get started on. 

My magnum bines are about 4 feet tall already, at my old place. 
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 21, 2012, 06:03:37 PM
Will hallertau grow in Minnesota or was it a bad choice.


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Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 22, 2012, 03:08:15 PM
No help?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on April 22, 2012, 09:07:04 PM

No help?


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What latitude does it normally grow at and how close is that to yours?  My crude understanding of hops is that similar latitudes will support similar hops.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 22, 2012, 09:37:05 PM
My established plants came through the freezes here just fine.

We have been having more frosts, and as teh plants get waist high, there is some frost damage on the tips.  Time for more shoots to come up and replace the ones that the tips are frozen off of.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pyrite on April 22, 2012, 10:24:29 PM
Will hallertau grow in Minnesota or was it a bad choice.


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I live in Southern California (Riverside) where it is dry and very hot during the summer months.  Although the Hallertau hop plants grew very well during the first months of summer, they suffered tremendously during the hot days of July and August.  After two years of no hop production I pulled out the Hallertau plants and replaced them with Liberty hops which grows very well here. 

If where you live in Minnesota the summer climate is on average no higher than the upper 80's, I think the plants should do well.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 22, 2012, 10:48:09 PM
Will hallertau grow in Minnesota or was it a bad choice.


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I live in Southern California (Riverside) where it is dry and very hot during the summer months.  Although the Hallertau hop plants grew very well during the first months of summer, they suffered tremendously during the hot days of July and August.  After two years of no hop production I pulled out the Hallertau plants and replaced them with Liberty hops which grows very well here. 

If where you live in Minnesota the summer climate is on average no higher than the upper 80's, I think the plants should do well.

The Michigan experience is that they don't produce much, a couple of hand fulls vs 2 paper grocery bags for Cascade.  If you have a mild summer they might do OK. The Hallertau area of Germany has a mild climate with a fair amount of rain.
http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Germany/Ingolstadt/climate-profile.aspx?month=7
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 23, 2012, 05:16:24 AM
I planted cascade bc from what I hear it's a power house and I use it quite often.
I wanted to plant a noble hop. If it doesn't go well what would be an alternative for next year. I am thinking of pilseners and such maybe a CAP


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: erockrph on April 23, 2012, 02:24:42 PM
I planted cascade bc from what I hear it's a power house and I use it quite often.
I wanted to plant a noble hop. If it doesn't go well what would be an alternative for next year. I am thinking of pilseners and such maybe a CAP

From everything I hear, Mt Hood is quite prolific. I went with Cascades, Mt Hood (an American-bred noble-style hop) and Willamette (an American-bred UK-style hop) for my first 3 plants. I don't know if there's any credence to it, but I just figured I'd have better luck growing American hop varieties.

Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 24, 2012, 06:35:18 PM
The hallertau are troopers in less then a week I have two tall sprouts.


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 24, 2012, 06:44:28 PM
The hallertau are troopers in less then a week I have two tall sprouts.


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Mine grow really well. Production of cones is another story.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on April 24, 2012, 06:54:10 PM
The hallertau are troopers in less then a week I have two tall sprouts.


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Mine grow really well. Production of cones is another story.

so now I am curious. did your Hallertau not produce any cones? or just a few. I am wondering if it's a dark/light cycle thing. If a variety is bred for a certain latitude it may need more hours of darkness to really produce flowers. If this is the case you might try (and this is going to seem like a huge PITA) trying to create a light tight environment around the bine so that you can extend the hours of darkness beyond what mother nature is providing. If it works it would probably only take an extra hour or so of total darkness.

just a thought
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 24, 2012, 07:12:47 PM
The hallertau are troopers in less then a week I have two tall sprouts.


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Mine grow really well. Production of cones is another story.

so now I am curious. did your Hallertau not produce any cones? or just a few. I am wondering if it's a dark/light cycle thing. If a variety is bred for a certain latitude it may need more hours of darkness to really produce flowers. If this is the case you might try (and this is going to seem like a huge PITA) trying to create a light tight environment around the bine so that you can extend the hours of darkness beyond what mother nature is providing. If it works it would probably only take an extra hour or so of total darkness.

just a thought
I got a double handful last year off the Hallertau, Tett, EKG. The Euroean varieties don't do well here. Cascades and other US varieties are productive.

I am at 42o3' which should not be a problem.  Aroma hops groen in the USA are mainly the Willamette Valley, which is 44o. The Hallertau is about 480/sup].

Soil and climate are the reasons I wuld think to be the first things to blame.  The hot dry spell we alway get in July-August when the cones are growing is what I blame.  The Hallertau is relatively mild, as is the WIllamette Valley.  They did the hybrids such as Mt. Hood, Liberty, Ultra and so on to get better yields even in the Willamette.

Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 25, 2012, 03:39:31 AM
In the next couple of years will I get enough hops to make maybe two five gallon batches of homebrew with three plants of hallertau?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: b-hoppy on April 25, 2012, 03:52:21 AM
Some varieties just don't produce well no matter where they're grown.  Over the past 20 or so years and 20 or more varieties, I've gotten rid of the following:  Hallertau, Tettnang, Saaz (and varieties related), Kent Golding, Willamette, Nuggett and a couple others.  If one plant won't produce at least half-a-pound, they get yanked.  A guy I gave some Hallertau cuttings to down near Pittsburgh had great success.  Was it because he was a little South of me, or the fact that he had them growing in a floodplain?  All you can do is try and make sure you give them at least 3-5 years before you decide to get rid of them.  Grow On!
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 25, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
Some varieties just don't produce well no matter where they're grown.  Over the past 20 or so years and 20 or more varieties, I've gotten rid of the following:  Hallertau, Tettnang, Saaz (and varieties related), Kent Golding, Willamette, Nuggett and a couple others.  If one plant won't produce at least half-a-pound, they get yanked.  A guy I gave some Hallertau cuttings to down near Pittsburgh had great success.  Was it because he was a little South of me, or the fact that he had them growing in a floodplain?  All you can do is try and make sure you give them at least 3-5 years before you decide to get rid of them.  Grow On!
Saaz only does well in the Zatec region. Itdoes well in the red soil there, and the fields are situated so they are in the right micro-climate (from the "Hop Atlas" by Haas).Your friend may have had a better soil or cool night air coming off the hills.

My Saaz plant died.

ckpash88 - you may get enought for a 5 gallon batch of a German style beer with a low hop rate.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on April 27, 2012, 05:31:37 AM
Is it expected that only 2 out of 6 plants rhizomes have broken the surface after ten days of being planted?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: tschmidlin on April 27, 2012, 06:59:34 AM
Is it expected that only 2 out of 6 plants rhizomes have broken the surface after ten days of being planted?


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It's probably fine, give it another 10 days and see what happens.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: thirsty on April 27, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
Some varieties just don't produce well no matter where they're grown.  Over the past 20 or so years and 20 or more varieties, I've gotten rid of the following:  Hallertau, Tettnang, Saaz (and varieties related), Kent Golding, Willamette, Nuggett and a couple others.  If one plant won't produce at least half-a-pound, they get yanked.  A guy I gave some Hallertau cuttings to down near Pittsburgh had great success.  Was it because he was a little South of me, or the fact that he had them growing in a floodplain?  All you can do is try and make sure you give them at least 3-5 years before you decide to get rid of them.  Grow On!

Nugget? I'm just north of NYC and my nugget plant used to produce quite a bit. It was only three years old when I moved. I tried to transplant it at the new house but it was one of the ones that didn't make it.

Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pyrite on April 27, 2012, 03:16:05 PM
Is it expected that only 2 out of 6 plants rhizomes have broken the surface after ten days of being planted?


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It took a little more than 2 weeks for the galena rhizomes I planted to break the surface.  Since then they have been growing vigorously.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on April 27, 2012, 04:30:20 PM
Some of mine have begun to sprout what looks an awefull lot like the beginings of cones. I suspect that the hours of light at this time of year, here in northern cali are just a little to short still and it's triggering some flowering behaviour. My fingers are crossed that, as the days get longer they will revert to vegetative growth. It's the cascade and the sterling. The centenial are not doing this.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Delo on April 27, 2012, 05:02:11 PM
Some of mine have begun to sprout what looks an awefull lot like the beginings of cones. I suspect that the hours of light at this time of year, here in northern cali are just a little to short still and it's triggering some flowering behaviour. My fingers are crossed that, as the days get longer they will revert to vegetative growth. It's the cascade and the sterling. The centenial are not doing this.
I can't speak for sterling because my sterling plant died after two years with no hops, but my cascade flower twice in a season. A small amount early and a large amount later, but if i remember right its usually not until the summer before the first flower and late summer fall for the larger amount. I live in New Jersey, around 40°.  I couldn’t tell you if there are any flowers forming right now though because I’ve already broken my promise to tend to them by not stringing them up yet and not checking on them in a week or so. When I get home from work today...
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 01, 2012, 06:00:33 AM
Ok so I planted them April 17th which is two weeks ago and I have 3 out of the six showing growth. Two being the hallertau and one cascade plant. Should I have faith in the other three even after two weeks and no sprouts.

Should I expect a certain percentage of plants to be failures?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 01, 2012, 06:14:18 AM
Ok so I planted them April 17th which is two weeks ago and I have 3 out of the six showing growth. Two being the hallertau and one cascade plant. Should I have faith in the other three even after two weeks and no sprouts.

Should I expect a certain percentage of plants to be failures?


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have faith brother. one of my centennial came up after almost a month.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 02, 2012, 02:34:45 AM
Zeus planted around March 3rd (maybe 5th):
(http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120428_190512.jpg)

(http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120428_190453.jpg)


Cascade planted April 9th:
(http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120501_171005.jpg)

I have to spray them with insecticidal soap at least once per week. The leaves on the bottom 5 feet of the zeus bine look horrible. Not sure if it was critters or what, but it seems to be doing fine now.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 02, 2012, 07:35:15 PM
What is a good fertilizer/plant food to use for hops?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 02, 2012, 08:07:31 PM
What is a good fertilizer/plant food to use for hops?


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compost. twice a year, in spring and late summer before infloresence side dress with about 3-6 inches of good compost about 3 inches away from the bines themselves and then water well. depending on your climate you could probably also plant a green manure cover crop (like clover or alfalfa) in the fall and let it grow before chopping and dropping as mulch.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 02, 2012, 08:10:12 PM
mine just grow.  i do pretty much nothing for them :)
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 02, 2012, 08:13:42 PM
mine just grow.  i do pretty much nothing for them :)

you've got that good midwestern top soil
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Pinski on May 02, 2012, 08:26:10 PM
Something is just loving my Cascade and Willamette shoots, they look like hell. The Mt. Hood and Columbus are taking off just fine. 
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 02, 2012, 09:00:50 PM
No miracle grow?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: jeffy on May 02, 2012, 09:41:46 PM
I remember a talk at the NHC in MN in which Gorst Valley Hops recommended lots of nitrogen, but I can't find the link to it right now.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 02, 2012, 10:02:57 PM
No miracle grow?


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Since I planted mine in pots I used Miracle Grow potting mix that is timed release. Not sure its the correct amount but they are doing OK. I figured that would get me until August before I have to start adding something.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Pinski on May 02, 2012, 10:58:48 PM
Nitrogen is the element they want during the vegetative growth stage. A balanced N-P-K fertilizer will suffice.  There are many strategies to "fertilize".
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Titanium Brewing on May 03, 2012, 02:04:47 AM
Just complete my hop farm for the year

(http://titaniumbrewing.com/img_3164.jpg)
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 05, 2012, 11:58:38 AM
I remember a talk at the NHC in MN in which Gorst Valley Hops recommended lots of nitrogen, but I can't find the link to it right now.
http://www.ahaconference.org/past-presentations/2010-presentations/
Open the one by James Altweis. That was an excellent presentation.

Too bad they are not putting more newsletters up. There is some more infromation on fertilzer there if you look those over. I do not have that good Midwestern topsoil.
http://www.gorstvalleyhops.com/newsletter.php
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 05, 2012, 11:29:50 PM
Ok so I did a little investigating of my hops that weren't growing. I pulled one out from the ground and found no signs of growth so I looked at the other two and same thing.

I got 3 bad rhizomes out of six one was a hallertau and the other two are cascade. I am a little disappointed. Would it be too late to try to plant some more?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 06, 2012, 04:36:48 AM
I had the same issue with cascade and ordered 2 more last month. Now 1 is growing and the other isn't. Seems like a crap-shoot.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 06, 2012, 05:44:57 AM
I picked up a big bag of old coffee grounds from Starbucks today. Any idea how much to put on top of the soil?
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 06, 2012, 06:57:09 AM
Would it be too late to plant another rhizome if there is any left to buy lol


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: EHall on May 06, 2012, 08:06:09 AM
I would say yes, its to late.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: bo on May 06, 2012, 12:41:51 PM
I think you could plant one now. You're really only trying to establish a root system the first year.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pyrite on May 06, 2012, 01:34:11 PM
I think you could plant one now. You're really only trying to establish a root system the first year.

+1
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: pinnah on May 07, 2012, 08:26:58 PM
Wonder what I could get for this at a nice spring farmers market?



A Centennial Bundle.. :)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c30/pinnah/centennialbunch.jpg)



Hops are wicked prolific. :o  Watch out!
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Pinski on May 07, 2012, 08:45:07 PM
I think you could plant one now. You're really only trying to establish a root system the first year.
yeah, and if you happen to get a few handfulls of cones to throw in for some flavor/aroma from first years you've done very well.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 08, 2012, 02:34:13 AM
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/78140737@N08/7155060264/)
my new hop trellis.  they used to go to the soffit, but i just finished putting on new siding on that wall including new vinyl boards, gutters.  just started the second story behind the garage in the backgroung.
left to right santiem, magnum, sterling.  this is their third season.  last year filled two quart bags. (my daughter blended them together on accident)  they made it to the roof line and back down on their second season.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 08, 2012, 02:36:40 AM
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/78140737@N08/7155060264/)
my new hop trellis.  they used to go to the soffit, but i just finished putting on new siding on that wall including new vinyl boards, gutters.  just started the second story behind the garage in the backgroung.
left to right santiem, magnum, sterling.  this is their third season.  last year filled two quart bags. (my daughter blended them together on accident)  they made it to the roof line and back down on their second season.

Looks nice!

Something is up with your img url, this should work though:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7238/7155060264_cc8f5a395d_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 08, 2012, 05:06:52 PM
so what did i do wrong that it wouldn't show up? i put the link between the image tags is there something else
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Hokerer on May 08, 2012, 05:15:31 PM
so what did i do wrong that it wouldn't show up? i put the link between the image tags is there something else

You put the link to the flickr page in between the tags when you need to put in the link to the photo itself

You put in http://www.flickr.com/photos/78140737@N08/7155060264/ which is the whole page...

You needed to put in http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7238/7155060264_cc8f5a395d.jpg which is the pic itself.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 08, 2012, 07:29:47 PM
i hate to be a pest, and i see the difference, but i don't know how you get to the second link?
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 08, 2012, 07:53:33 PM
i hate to be a pest, and i see the difference, but i don't know how you get to the second link?

if you right click the image on flickr one of the menu options should be to copy image URL, do that.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 08, 2012, 07:56:56 PM
i hate to be a pest, and i see the difference, but i don't know how you get to the second link?

They've changed how they offer links to pictures, now you can click "Share" above your photo then "Grab the HTML/BBCode" and select BBCode. Copy that and paste in your post. That will give you this:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7238/7155060264_cc8f5a395d.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/78140737@N08/7155060264/)
025 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/78140737@N08/7155060264/) by weithmanbills (http://www.flickr.com/people/78140737@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 08, 2012, 08:43:59 PM
[(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7098/7160376478_fc97d61775.jpg)
okay, think i have it figured out now.  thanks all.  this is the beer i sent to nationals moments before tossing it.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 08, 2012, 10:49:14 PM
[(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7098/7160376478_fc97d61775.jpg)
okay, think i have it figured out now.  thanks all.  this is the beer i sent to nationals moments before tossing it.

*cheers*
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: oscarvan on May 09, 2012, 10:20:02 PM
Forgive me for I have been negligent of my brewer brothers and sisters on this forum. Too much work and the temptations of other projects..... (think building an RV starting with a Peterbilt....no not yet, but lots of research......but I digress)

Good news is I have NOT forgotten to brew, or drink, the noble brew. 10 Gallons of German Ale and 10 Gallons of IPA in the fermenters.... and as a side note, and on topic with this thread:

http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/Hops.html
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 09, 2012, 10:25:17 PM
Very nice re-use of the old playset! Are they planted by the ladders? Definitely update with pics once they fill out, it should be pretty.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: oscarvan on May 09, 2012, 10:41:25 PM
Yes, they are by the ladders. NSEW.....
Title: Re: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Mark G on May 10, 2012, 01:23:45 PM
Forgive me for I have been negligent of my brewer brothers and sisters on this forum. Too much work and the temptations of other projects..... (think building an RV starting with a Peterbilt....no not yet, but lots of research......but I digress)

Good news is I have NOT forgotten to brew, or drink, the noble brew. 10 Gallons of German Ale and 10 Gallons of IPA in the fermenters.... and as a side note, and on topic with this thread:

http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/Hops.html

Great idea with the swingset. Good to hear from you again.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 17, 2012, 05:25:31 PM
I think I am giving up on hop rhizomes I planted 6 only three came up and they are only 5 inches tall and won't grow any more and then I got 3 more hop rhizomes and they didn't come up either.


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 17, 2012, 06:20:18 PM
I think I am giving up on hop rhizomes I planted 6 only three came up and they are only 5 inches tall and won't grow any more and then I got 3 more hop rhizomes and they didn't come up either.


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patience! what was your procedure for planting? did you fertilize? how long in the ground? one of mine took almost 4 weeks to come up at all. several of mine were only 8 inches tall until I started watering daily then they took off. still alot of growing season left man. and remember the first year is all about getting established.

my talles one just went from about 10 inches tall to about 7 feet in less than 2 weeks also, so don't count those little guys out yet. if they are green they are growing.

but I would give them a nice 6 inch mulch of compost, leave a little space between the mulch and the actual bine, or area where the bine is going to come out.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 17, 2012, 10:41:36 PM
My cascade are acting similar and growing way slower than the Zeus.

Zeus are taking over my balcony and I only got 1 bine so I guess I'm lucky that one is doing well.

 (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120517_175912.jpg)

 (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120517_175858.jpg)

 (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120517_175924.jpg)

-Sent from the future.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 18, 2012, 04:58:07 AM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/619659bc-d6a7-7577.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/619659bc-d6b8-2baa.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/619659bc-d6c7-267d.jpg)

This is what's going on...not much


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Pinski on May 18, 2012, 05:57:39 AM
I think I am giving up on hop rhizomes I planted 6 only three came up and they are only 5 inches tall and won't grow any more and then I got 3 more hop rhizomes and they didn't come up either.
First year they sleep, second year they creep, third year they LEAP!
Patience.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 18, 2012, 11:42:12 AM
This is what's going on...not much

Yeah that's what my cascade bines look like.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: thirsty on May 18, 2012, 03:17:12 PM
Also depends on the variety. Some are just much slower than others.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 18, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
roger that on variety. my very first year my magnum went nuts. still dominated last year. now in the third year my sterling are stealing the show.  magnum and santiem are neck and neck.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 21, 2012, 04:44:53 AM
So I had two potted willamete hops in containers that I gave up on b I thought the rhizomes were bad and I has been rainy at night and in the 80 during the day and I just left them to through away later.

I go out today to through them away and I have to sprouts fully leafed and about 2 inches tall so you were right my to throw in the towel so soon


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 22, 2012, 08:06:30 PM
I just ordered a lot of Chinook rhizomes from bcrosbyhops.com

I had two rhizomes a couple weeks ago ordered from Freshops and they grew for a bit, then died. Not sure but I think I failed to plant them deep enough and then added too much fertilizer. I tried to revive them but they are toast.

Freshops is out of Chinook so I found an alternate source in bcrosbyhops.com

These Chinook will be going into 7gal pots - plenty of room for them to grow for two seasons before transplanting them.

I should upload shots of my 5 year old mess of Cascade and Centennials. An illustration of what happens if you never prune your hops and let them grow for this many years.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 24, 2012, 06:10:40 PM
So I did some serious watering yesterday morning to make sure hops had enough ware and it's been quite hot an dry...and what happens been raining since 12 noon yesterday non stop. I have great timing


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 26, 2012, 08:23:04 PM
Are these fuzzy things going to be the actual hops?

 (http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy347/stbloomfield_bucket/20120526_162048.jpg)

-Sent from the future.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: andrew on May 26, 2012, 08:42:41 PM
yep and soon they will look like this...

(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/389588_10150911031932719_500077718_9705289_1428302417_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: ccfoo242 on May 26, 2012, 10:11:38 PM
Sweet!

-Sent from the future.
Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 26, 2012, 10:24:21 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7226/7275732016_c0743fffa8.jpg)

here are mine now.  the sterling are winning and were the first to breach the top of the trellis. FWIW the trellis is made of 4 10ft pieces of 1/2 inch conduit and connectors.  total cost about 10 bucks.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 27, 2012, 04:47:09 AM
How come yours are so tall and mine are pushing only like 6 inches?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: weithman5 on May 27, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
this is there third season. don't panic.  my first year the magnum (in the middle) went to the roof and back, the santiem i didnt think survived and the sterling barely made it up the string.  now they are all three doing well and the sterling have gone nuts.  i have already given up rhizomes.  yours will do fine they are all at different rates.

incidentally, anyone in the chicago area that are interested in some of these rhizomes, let me know.  i am likely also to get more hops than i will use in my little brewery. 
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 27, 2012, 04:09:55 PM
I am just worried at their growth rate they won't make a good root structure and die during the winter.


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Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 28, 2012, 03:03:36 AM
My mom weed whipped one my plants. Will it send out another shoot?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: andrew on May 28, 2012, 04:00:35 AM
My mom weed whipped one my plants. Will it send out another shoot?


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It probably will. Just give a little time.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 28, 2012, 06:40:20 AM
She thought it was funny of course i didn't bc I have put a lot of tlc into them but in her defense she didn't get a new electric whipper lol and she went to town in our yard.


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 28, 2012, 01:02:15 PM
My mom weed whipped one my plants. Will it send out another shoot?


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Once established, you can use a weed whip to keep them out of your yard! I guess I've let mine go a bit.
This is their 5th year and they're taking over. This was two Centennial rhizomes on either side of the trellis and one Cascade behind it. Now it's one mass and by the end of the summer, you'll hardly see any of the trellis

I tried cutting back the initial growth this spring but it really was pointless.
I'll need to do some digging after these are done this fall.

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss198/braumeisterwurf/2012%20Hops/P1050139.jpg)

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss198/braumeisterwurf/2012%20Hops/P1050140.jpg)

Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: erockrph on May 28, 2012, 02:16:47 PM
Wow. Well, I've definitely made up my mind to keep my hops potted after seeing some of these pics. I do have a couple of empty lots on either side of my house that I've been meaning to "accidentally" plant some bamboo on to keep the kids on dirtbikes from blowing through at all hours. If I ever do put some bamboo in, I might just have to "accidentally" plant some hops rhizomes at the base of them. Should turn into a jungle in no time...
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 29, 2012, 12:09:02 AM
You say once established I planted them a month ago and only one sprout came up and now it got cut off. Is it a goner?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: tschmidlin on May 29, 2012, 04:32:08 AM
Hard to say, it might send up another one or it might not.  There's nothing to do except wait and keep it watered as if it's a living plant.  If it doesn't come up, you get to plant another one there next year ;)
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on May 29, 2012, 04:47:41 AM
Yeah that is true. It was a hallertau and I hear they may not work well in MN. I ended up with two willamette for free that got planted three weeks after the other ones and they are killing the other ones when it comes to growth.

I will have to make recipes that use willamette. I have never used that hop to my knowledge.


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: erockrph on May 29, 2012, 11:58:27 AM
I will have to make recipes that use willamette. I have never used that hop to my knowledge.

You can use Willamette pretty much anywhere you would use Fuggles. English IPA, English Pale Ale, ESB, Porter, etc.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on June 05, 2012, 10:52:16 PM
So I think something has been nibbling on my plants. What would eat them? Every time a good leaf pops up it goes missing. How can you protect them?


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on June 05, 2012, 10:58:03 PM
So I think something has been nibbling on my plants. What would eat them? Every time a good leaf pops up it goes missing. How can you protect them?


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Try this

Take a couple hot peppers. hotter the better, a bulb of garlic, a tablespoon of liquid dish soap a tablespoon of vegetable oil and a couple cups of hot water. blend the beegeejuss out of it all and it will turn into something akin to mayo, but don't eat it.

a few tablespoons of that in a plant sprayer with warm water and shake it up and spray liberally on the plants. do it every couple days and after rain.

It's a good idea to test it on one leaf to make sure it doesn't burn them though.

It should help with a variety of bugs and mammals. you can add some chewing tobacco and tomato leaves as well to make it more toxic if you like.

also don't apply after the cones begin to form.

that being said, the best remedy is lots of compost so the plants grow faster than the bugs can eat them.
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on June 05, 2012, 11:53:28 PM
Is there a store bought remedy I am a touch on the lazy side


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: morticaixavier on June 06, 2012, 04:10:41 AM
Is there a store bought remedy I am a touch on the lazy side


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get some food grade Diatomaceous earth and spread is around the hops in a good 6 inch circle. reapply every day or whenever it gets moist.

you can try just sprinking some crushed red pepper around, if it's a mammal that would work, if it's bugs it might work. but the spray only takes about 15 minutes to make and lasts in the fridge for months and months
Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on June 06, 2012, 04:45:18 AM
My tallest plant is only a foot tall not sure they are doing well.


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Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on October 15, 2012, 01:26:42 AM
So my attempt at growing hops was a major failure. The tallest one got to a staggering 7 inches tall. I don't know what was up. I watered regularly, weeded, and made sure critters didn't nibble on the leaves. Oh well we can't be good at everything.


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on October 15, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
Don't let it get you down. You frankly chose a tricky strain for your first attempt and I'd put a lot of the blame on that, not you.

Try planting Cascade ( no brainer to grow and great output ) or Centennial, Chinook, Nugget, or Magnum next year. These are all easier to grow and have generally higher yields than Hallertau, Willamette, or almost any noble hop or noble hop hybrid aroma variety.

Base your choice on what you like to brew and how you will use them too.

I harvested about 2lbs this year dried. I should have had a lot more but lack of rain and really hot, dry air this summer beat them up pretty bad. The bugs ate them up a bit too. I also blame this on lack of rain. It was ridiculously bad weather for hops growing in SW lower Michigan this summer!

I'm using a blend of the Cascade and Centennial to dry hop an IPA in a couple days. It's in primary now and I'm just letting it finish before stuffing them in the carboy.

Title: Rhizomes?
Post by: ckpash88 on October 15, 2012, 09:13:32 PM
I tried cascade and they were the first to fail lol.


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Title: Re: Rhizomes?
Post by: Mark G on October 15, 2012, 09:32:22 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about first year hops. If they don't grow much in their second year, then you can declare yourself a failure ;)