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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: roguejim on April 14, 2012, 12:48:54 AM

Title: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: roguejim on April 14, 2012, 12:48:54 AM
I've never employed mash hopping.  I've been told by some that the overall effect is minimal.  However, I see it used by some reputable homebrewers.  Is it comparable to a flavor addition...10-15 minute?  How many IBUs does it contribute?  What can I expect from it?  Thanks. 
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 14, 2012, 06:20:24 AM
You might get some flavor, some say you can get a little more IBUs.  But at mash temp the isomorization reaction will be slow, and you might get 1 IBU? It might help with the run off.  I have done it as in the old Pliny the Elder recipe that had mash hops, and I did it without the mash hops.  With all of the other hops in there, no difference was noticed in the beers.

I think it is a way to use more hops, so one can say my beer was even mashed hopped to get all that hoppy goodness in to the beer. Makes one feel superior.  Until you hear about adding hops to the sparge water. Then you feel inadequate.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: erockrph on April 14, 2012, 06:32:16 AM
Makes one feel superior.  Until you hear about adding hops to the sparge water. Then you feel inadequate.

I hop my Star San. Top that!  :P
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: bo on April 14, 2012, 07:54:28 AM
I think it's a big waste of hops for what you get out of it.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: euge on April 14, 2012, 11:07:52 AM
You're better of with a first-wort hop than a mash-hop. I don't bother with these techniques anymore as their effect is minimal at best. Straight into the boil they go in my brewery- save those other hops for dry hopping.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: snowtiger87 on April 14, 2012, 11:37:10 AM
Quote
I hop my Star San. Top that! 

The best I can do is sparge water hop and mash hop  :-\ Unless, I put hops in the water filter and use it like a Randal when I filter my water for brewing.  ???
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tygo on April 14, 2012, 12:13:00 PM
You're better of with a first-wort hop than a mash-hop. I don't bother with these techniques anymore as their effect is minimal at best. Straight into the boil they go in my brewery- save those other hops for dry hopping.

I've never tried mash hopping, and probably won't, but I do FWH quite a bit.  I think that has more than a minimal impact to the flavor.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: scottbreak on April 14, 2012, 04:46:09 PM
I recently heard John Palmer and Gordon Strong speak on this topic. Both of them said it was basically a waste of hops. You get almost zero isomerization. The only benefit was filtration and "rice hulls are cheaper." They then went on to say that First Wort Hopping was the better option. Hope this helps. Cheers!
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: roguejim on April 17, 2012, 12:26:46 PM
Well, it's unanimous then.  Just don't tell Tasty McDole or Nathan Smith! ;D
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on April 17, 2012, 12:38:49 PM
Can I assume you've all seen Randall Jr?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhP7NVrVEfA&list=UU5vJOJIr5FJHR491mLKRFoQ&index=1&feature=plcp
Title: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: majorvices on April 17, 2012, 12:46:26 PM
I think it's a big waste of hops for what you get out of it.

I agree. Maybe back when hops were cheap as dirt it was worth it on some level but not now.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: denny on April 17, 2012, 12:47:03 PM
Well, it's unanimous then.  Just don't tell Tasty McDole or Nathan Smith! ;D

Hey, I'd be happy to tell them!  Despite what they say, I have my own experience and that wins every single time.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: morticaixavier on April 17, 2012, 12:52:40 PM
Well, it's unanimous then.  Just don't tell Tasty McDole or Nathan Smith! ;D

Hey, I'd be happy to tell them!  Despite what they say, I have my own experience and that wins every single time.

I was watching a recent Brewing TV episode with Nathan Smith and his comment on the hops in the sparge water was something like 'Hey it's not a double IPA if you don't waste hops right?"
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 17, 2012, 04:00:18 PM
I'd say it's a West coast mindset on hops, but he (Smith) is from Minnesota, so I guess it is just a hophead's mindset.....

 
Well, it's unanimous then.  Just don't tell Tasty McDole or Nathan Smith! ;D

Hey, I'd be happy to tell them!  Despite what they say, I have my own experience and that wins every single time.

I was watching a recent Brewing TV episode with Nathan Smith and his comment on the hops in the sparge water was something like 'Hey it's not a double IPA if you don't waste hops right?"

Waste not, want not. I am just remembering back to the hop shortage year....
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: majorvices on April 17, 2012, 05:03:34 PM
There's been a hop shortage ever since that year. Not as bad, but still a shortage.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: majorvices on April 17, 2012, 05:06:15 PM
There's been a hop shortage ever since that year. Not as bad, but still a shortage.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tschmidlin on April 17, 2012, 05:09:15 PM
There's been a hop shortage ever since that year. Not as bad, but still a shortage.
Worth saying twice.  :(
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: bluesman on April 17, 2012, 06:08:03 PM
I tried mashing with some Northern Brewer on a Janet's Brown clone and scored a 41 at a recent competition.  The only thing is that I really wouldn't know the effect of the mash hops without a control batch.  Sure did produce a damn fine beer though.  :)
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: euge on April 17, 2012, 08:41:40 PM
There's been a hop shortage ever since that year. Not as bad, but still a shortage.

When I started back up in 2007 hops were $0.75 per oz. Then 6 months later they were $4 per oz of pellets! :-[
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: chumley on April 18, 2012, 08:55:29 AM
I once brewed a pils where the only hop addition was FWH, 4 oz. of Saaz for a 5 gallon batch of 1.048 beer.  It came out pretty darn good.  Low bitterness and lots of hop flavor.

Its even better, though, when you do that plus use an ounce of Clusters at the 60 minute boil mark....
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tomsawyer on April 18, 2012, 01:24:22 PM
Quote
I hop my Star San. Top that! 

The best I can do is sparge water hop and mash hop  :-\ Unless, I put hops in the water filter and use it like a Randal when I filter my water for brewing.  ???
I started smoking hops, and in less than a year I was mainlining hopshots on a daily basis.  Thank goodness I found HA, and they helped me get clean with the help of hopadone.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on April 18, 2012, 02:21:05 PM
Quote
I hop my Star San. Top that! 

The best I can do is sparge water hop and mash hop  :-\ Unless, I put hops in the water filter and use it like a Randal when I filter my water for brewing.  ???
I started smoking hops, and in less than a year I was mainlining hopshots on a daily basis.  Thank goodness I found HA, and they helped me get clean with the help of hopadone.
Smoking hops?  Is that anything like smoking grain?    ;D
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tomsawyer on April 19, 2012, 05:12:50 AM
Great idea, smoke your grain with hops.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: snowtiger87 on April 19, 2012, 11:35:22 AM
Quote
Smoking hops?  Is that anything like smoking grain?   

Yes, but the hops are easier to light  ;)
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: jeffy on April 19, 2012, 02:22:24 PM
I actually cold smoked some whole hops over pecan wood for a brew that turned out fantastic.  He used them in a hop back.

I also like to smoke cheese, but that's much more difficult to keep lit.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: liquidbrewing on April 19, 2012, 06:45:22 PM
Quote
I hop my Star San. Top that! 

The best I can do is sparge water hop and mash hop  :-\ Unless, I put hops in the water filter and use it like a Randal when I filter my water for brewing.  ???
I started smoking hops, and in less than a year I was mainlining hopshots on a daily basis.  Thank goodness I found HA, and they helped me get clean with the help of hopadone.

It was only a matter of time!  They are in the cannibus family after all!
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tschmidlin on April 20, 2012, 02:17:43 AM
I also like to smoke cheese, but that's much more difficult to keep lit.
;D
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on April 24, 2012, 06:41:03 AM
...You get almost zero isomerization...

If this is what you're aiming for, then mash hops are a great idea!

Mike Tonsmire uses mash hops when making beers that need little IBUs and NO hop flavor (in lambic, a substitute for aged hops).

Mike also used hops in the mash for short or no-boil recipes (berliner weisse).

(Reference: www.themadfermentationist.com)

Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tomsawyer on April 24, 2012, 08:18:16 AM
Good point on the Berliner, I'm going to brew one soon and will make use of this technique.  Previously I was boiling a small amount of the wort with hops to get a little character.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 24, 2012, 11:32:21 AM
...You get almost zero isomerization...

If this is what you're aiming for, then mash hops are a great idea!

Mike Tonsmire uses mash hops when making beers that need little IBUs and NO hop flavor (in lambic, a substitute for aged hops).

Mike also used hops in the mash for short or no-boil recipes (berliner weisse).

(Reference: www.themadfermentationist.com)

Mash hopping was traditional in a Berliner Weisse, correct?
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: tomsawyer on April 25, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
Thats what the BJCP style guide says, although with a single decoction (also supposedly traditional) you are technically boiling the hops for some period of time.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: weithman5 on April 25, 2012, 02:01:21 PM
i grow my own hops so they are cheap.
i guess i don't see any advantage of this over traditional hopping.  bitter early and flavor late i would think would accomplish this as well.   i may try fwh for this "smoothness" people are talking about.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: davidgzach on April 26, 2012, 06:09:27 AM
i grow my own hops so they are cheap.
i guess i don't see any advantage of this over traditional hopping.  bitter early and flavor late i would think would accomplish this as well.   i may try fwh for this "smoothness" people are talking about.

+1.  I may have to try FWH on my next AIPA.
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: skyler on April 27, 2012, 02:47:18 AM
I'd say it's a West coast mindset on hops, but he (Smith) is from Minnesota, so I guess it is just a hophead's mindset.....

I think he lives in Oakland, CA. I certainly see him at a lot of local beer events...
Title: Re: Tell me about Mash Hopping
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 27, 2012, 04:47:35 AM
I'd say it's a West coast mindset on hops, but he (Smith) is from Minnesota, so I guess it is just a hophead's mindset.....

I think he lives in Oakland, CA. I certainly see him at a lot of local beer events...
Yes, he is a member of DOZE, which is an east Bay Area club.