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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: babalu87 on February 03, 2010, 05:51:26 PM

Title: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: babalu87 on February 03, 2010, 05:51:26 PM
Has anyone cultured this yeast from the bottles?

Had my first one last night and now know what the hub-bub is all about.

Its one of the best IPA's I've ever had.

All Centennial hops correct?
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: bluesman on February 03, 2010, 05:57:38 PM
Yes it is an all Centennial IPA.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: majorvices on February 03, 2010, 06:03:27 PM
I like it on draft much better than in bottles, but it is a little sweeter than I care for in an IPA. Still its the best commercial IPA I can get 'round these parts so I drink it when I'm out if the place has it.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: nyakavt on February 03, 2010, 06:08:15 PM
Has anyone cultured this yeast from the bottles?

Had my first one last night and now know what the hub-bub is all about.

Its one of the best IPA's I've ever had.

All Centennial hops correct?

I twice tried to culture this yeast, once from 2HA and once from Bell's Amber.  The 2HA never took off after a week, and the vial was knocked over so I dumped it.  The amber yeast took only a couple of days, probably had more to do with the freshness than anything else.  This yeast is a very strong attenuator and a good flocculator, a good overall yeast.  I think it has a slight english character to it, but I only fermented at one temp so I didn't do a lot of experimenting.  I brewed 6 or 7 beers last year with this yeast, it is pretty versatile.

I tried brewing a 2HA clone as well, IIRC it was 10 lbs of 2-row, 2 lbs vienna, 1/2 lb of c-20 or something.  I would drop the Vienna, it ended up making the beer a little more rich than the real thing.  A very simple grain bill of 2-row and 1/2-1 lb of light crystal is what I'll try next time.  It's definitely all centennial, I suggest lots of late hopping and some dry hopping.  Very good beer!
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: babalu87 on February 03, 2010, 06:22:53 PM
Has anyone cultured this yeast from the bottles?

Had my first one last night and now know what the hub-bub is all about.

Its one of the best IPA's I've ever had.

All Centennial hops correct?

I twice tried to culture this yeast, once from 2HA and once from Bell's Amber.  The 2HA never took off after a week, and the vial was knocked over so I dumped it.  The amber yeast took only a couple of days, probably had more to do with the freshness than anything else.  This yeast is a very strong attenuator and a good flocculator, a good overall yeast. I think it has a slight english character to it, but I only fermented at one temp so I didn't do a lot of experimenting.  I brewed 6 or 7 beers last year with this yeast, it is pretty versatile.

I tried brewing a 2HA clone as well, IIRC it was 10 lbs of 2-row, 2 lbs vienna, 1/2 lb of c-20 or something.  I would drop the Vienna, it ended up making the beer a little more rich than the real thing.  A very simple grain bill of 2-row and 1/2-1 lb of light crystal is what I'll try next time.  It's definitely all centennial, I suggest lots of late hopping and some dry hopping.  Very good beer!

Thats what I was thinking as well, almost has a bit of a Ringwood thing going.
Got a six pack of the amber, maybe I'll just start by trying to grow that up first.

Thanks
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: blatz on February 03, 2010, 06:32:38 PM
FWIW, and I know this doesn't help you babalu, but Bell's recommends culturing from Oberon since its lower gravity.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: a10t2 on February 03, 2010, 08:14:51 PM
I used the yeast from THA a few times but dumped it because of a potential infection. 1272 makes a good sub IMHO - I actually prefer it, and can only tell them apart if they're side by side.

OG: 1.064
88% 2-row
8% Munich
4% Crystal 40

30 IBU Centennial at 60 min
1.4 oz at 15 min
1.4 oz at flameout
1.4 oz dry hop
Should be about 65 IBU total.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: dean on February 03, 2010, 10:41:27 PM
Wow, I must have gotten an old six pack when I bought it because I couldn't taste or smell any hops in Bell's THA... just a very clean bitter.   :-\
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 03, 2010, 10:50:20 PM
The guys who remember when Bells was starting out in the 80's claimed that Larry said that the yeast was 1056.  If that is the case, it has taken on a house character.  I have had good results culturing the yeast from the Amber, to make a 2 Hearted clone.

All Centennial is the way to go.  Use a domestic 2-row, some vienna or munich, a little cara-pils, and add a little gypsum.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: gail on February 03, 2010, 11:24:12 PM
Wow, I must have gotten an old six pack when I bought it because I couldn't taste or smell any hops in Bell's THA... just a very clean bitter.   :-\
Wow, Dean, I have never heard this said about THA.  You must have gotten some of the original bottles... ;)
Gail
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: blatz on February 03, 2010, 11:28:01 PM
dean - as you have probably seen before, I am not shy about saying that THA is overrated.  However, I had a draft pint and shot the breeze with Larry over the weekend - its infinitely better on draft.  I think it might be in my Top 10 IPAs now, whereas before it was barely in the top 20.

so what I'm saying is try to get fresh bottles ;)
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 03, 2010, 11:45:08 PM
Hey Blatz,

Years ago I had 2 Hearted on Cask at the brewery cafe, and that rocked my world!  Had it on tap many times since at the Eccentric Cafe, and it is good stuff.  Hope you had a good time talking to Larry Bell.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: a10t2 on February 04, 2010, 12:17:31 AM
The guys who remember when Bells was starting out in the 80's claimed that Larry said that the yeast was 1056.

I've actually heard that directly from Larry Bell, and that the mutations over the years weren't deliberate, just the result of hundreds of generations of mutation.

He's a great guy. A friend and I showed up at the brewery instead of the tap room by mistake, and he actually gave us a tour personally.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 04, 2010, 12:26:50 AM
For a long time at the Kalamazoo brewery, they used open fermentors.  I know this to be true in the 1996 timeframe.

Now in Comstock they have the big conicals, and the yeast is what it is.  I think it is closer to 1056 than to many British ale yeasts.

I have talked to Larry many times over the last 20 years, a good guy for sure.

Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: gail on February 04, 2010, 01:39:56 AM
Hey Blatz,

Years ago I had 2 Hearted on Cask at the brewery cafe, and that rocked my world!  Had it on tap many times since at the Eccentric Cafe, and it is good stuff.  Hope you had a good time talking to Larry Bell.
One advantage of living in or near Michigan--or at least close enough to have THA fresh, clean and hoppy.  Sorry, Dean, you'll have to make the trip down to K'zoo if the stores around you don't turn over fast enough.  Nothing beats getting it from the source, though, as Jeff attests!
Gail
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: dean on February 04, 2010, 01:42:29 AM
Gail, I seriously think I may have gotten an old batch and not just of THA because in the last week I've bought two different styles made by Founders that I'm sure were old (screw tops) and they both tasted off to me, one came from the same store I bought the THA so it wouldn't suprise me.  I'm going to start paying more attention to date codes before buying from now on.  Bell's puts an easy to read born/made date on theirs but Founders is almost impossible to locate or cipher.   ::)  From now on, I personally won't buy some PA's or an IPA that is more than 6 to 8 weeks from its born on date... jmo.  

Hopfenundmalz... I have no doubt about that and I hope I can make it down there this summer.   ;D
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: gail on February 04, 2010, 01:53:34 AM
With many craft beers you can take a look at the bottle against the store lighting and see if it looks cloudy or fluffy toward the bottom--don't buy it.  I've seen that with other Bell's brews and learned the hard way when I bought a Brown with fluffy sediment (didn't notice until I got home) from a store out in rural northern Michigan and found it had turned to wet cardboard in a bottle.  I haven't had a Founders beer in screw top bottles, ever, but I think you should go by your taste buds and maybe either try bringing it to the attention of the store owner or try taking your business elsewhere--hard in your part of the state, I know.  Not much beats fresh beer and most everything beats old, stale or cardboard beer!
Gail
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: dean on February 04, 2010, 02:01:23 AM
You got that right about it being hard in this part of the state... most drinkers here are hardcore BMC types so anything else doesn't get the treatment it really should.  I don't blame either Founders or Bells... but the distributor and the store owner should know better and practice what they know.   ;)
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: gail on February 04, 2010, 02:04:55 AM
Sometimes they need educating...that's maybe where you can help them out... ;)  And then you'll benefit by being able to buy fresher beer!
It's got to be so frustrating for the brewer/brewery to have a substandard product on the shelves due to age or storage conditions.
Gail
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: dean on February 04, 2010, 02:12:16 AM
Ha!  Denny is the type to educate someone.  I am too gruff... I just say it like it is.   :D  For instance, how many people think they are cutting a fat hog in the ass going to Walmart?  Ha!  If you're buy something from China or similar yeh.... but buy FOOD at Walmart and you're paying WAY more than you need... good gravy even Meijers is Way Lower on food than Walmart... and Meijers workers are union... so it isn't the unions that are ripping America off!

Well... this thread will probably get deleted now.   :D :D :D
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: blatz on February 04, 2010, 02:35:41 AM
Hey Blatz,

Years ago I had 2 Hearted on Cask at the brewery cafe, and that rocked my world!  Had it on tap many times since at the Eccentric Cafe, and it is good stuff.  Hope you had a good time talking to Larry Bell.

He was very cool.  I've met him once before - very friendly and unassuming - loved to talk about brewing and break out his secret stash which was awesome (a couple collaboration beers and a few vintages of Expy).  I even told him that I wasn't a big fan of the bottles of 2HA, but loved the draft, and he lamented about the poor treatment the distributors give him down here.

Too bad - Its no Avery IPA, but I would definitely go regularly to have some draft 2HA if we could get it.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: dhacker on February 04, 2010, 01:08:24 PM
This beer is in my lineup to brew, so is there a consensus if not culturing? 1272, 1056, or maybe even 1187?

My plan was to use 1272.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: brewmichigan on February 04, 2010, 03:57:53 PM
I cultured this yeast from 2 THA bottles last summer and made a THA "clone." I say "clone" because I don't think it was a very good one but rather a damn fine centennial APA. That yeast is a monster attenuator. I remember my starting gravity was lower but it ended finishing around 1.005. I don't know if Oberon and THA use the same yeast but I would bet they do. They have the same slight fruitiness in the finish.

BTW, I've had THA at the brewery, in the bottle, and on cask. On cask is amazing! This is my go to beer and my favorite IPA and I have many IPAs. But I may be biased since it's a Michigan beer and I live in Michigan and have friends in K-Zoo.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2010, 04:06:46 PM
dean - as you have probably seen before, I am not shy about saying that THA is overrated.  However, I had a draft pint and shot the breeze with Larry over the weekend - its infinitely better on draft.  I think it might be in my Top 10 IPAs now, whereas before it was barely in the top 20.

so what I'm saying is try to get fresh bottles ;)

Ha! Whatdoya know - we agree about something. ;) Definitely better on draft, not so great in the bottles. Still just a little too sweet. I think Racer X is a far superior beer on draft and in bottles.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: blatz on February 05, 2010, 06:26:44 PM
Ha! Whatdoya know - we agree about something. ;) Definitely better on draft, not so great in the bottles. Still just a little too sweet. I think Racer X is a far superior beer on draft and in bottles.

ha - we agree on a lot, don't you agree?  ;D

While R5 is one of my top 3 IPAs, I have yet to try RacerX. 

as far as yeast is concerned, 1272 would probably make the closest clone, but I think 1450 will make a fine example.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: majorvices on February 06, 2010, 01:00:16 AM
Ha! Whatdoya know - we agree about something. ;) Definitely better on draft, not so great in the bottles. Still just a little too sweet. I think Racer X is a far superior beer on draft and in bottles.

ha - we agree on a lot, don't you agree?  ;D

While R5 is one of my top 3 IPAs, I have yet to try RacerX. 

as far as yeast is concerned, 1272 would probably make the closest clone, but I think 1450 will make a fine example.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. That's what I meant. My sarcasm doesn't always come over well through the internets. Racer 5 is actually what I meant, also - love Racer X though (more of a IIPA). Got to drink them both at the source a couple years ago and tour the brewery. Know one of the brewers there personally, actually.
Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 06, 2010, 01:12:37 AM
Racer 5 is water - after you have just had a Racer X.  Found that out last September at Bear Republic.  Then went to RR for some Pliny the Elder.  Glad we had checked into a hotel in Santa Rosa in between stops.

For those of you not in Michigan, there was a release of a beer called The Oricale only in MI by Bells.  That was right up there with the California DIPA's.  Larry said he wanted to see if it would sell.  It did.

Title: Re: Bells Two Hearted yeast?
Post by: dean on February 07, 2010, 01:00:18 PM


Yeah, I was being sarcastic. That's what I meant. My sarcasm doesn't always come over well through the internets.

I know what you mean, sometimes people think I'm a Prick, when sometimes I'm really trying to be just a little dick.   ;D :D  ::)