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General Category => Going Pro => Topic started by: t3e871 on April 27, 2012, 12:22:07 am

Title: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: t3e871 on April 27, 2012, 12:22:07 am
Where would I start if I wanted to buy a 5 or 7 barrel system and open a brewpub? I'd like to look at new equipment only at first, just to get a "water mark" on what the stuff is going for.

Also as a second question, what parts and pieces would be mandatory? The terms like "bright tank, serving tank, etc" are foreign to me.

Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: a10t2 on April 27, 2012, 12:47:02 am
Just a few vendors off the top of my head:

http://www.nabrewing.com/
http://www.specific.net/
http://www.soundbrew.com/
http://jvnw.com/
http://www.agertank.com/

Any of them should be able to give you a quote. Be prepared for 10-20 questions about exactly what it is you want. The "mandatory" components should be familiar to you from home brewing: HLT, MLT, kettle, fermenter(s), serving/brite tank(s) (think corny kegs). There are a couple dozen other things you'll need, but those are the vessels, generally.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: jiggs26.2 on April 27, 2012, 01:21:54 am
This may help out also
http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/directories/Supplier-Directory (http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/directories/Supplier-Directory)
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: Gribble on April 27, 2012, 02:17:06 am
If you want a great system for not a lot of cost, look up Stout tanks and kettles.  The biggest system he makes is a 7 bbl and will customize it anyway you want.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: t3e871 on May 01, 2012, 08:07:20 pm
Thanks for the info guys!
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: jiggs26.2 on May 01, 2012, 08:23:25 pm
Here is one more place you could check
http://premierstainless.com/
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: jmcamerlengo on May 15, 2012, 06:52:58 pm
I got a quote from premiere stainless and stout tanks. However lucky me I just found a company 2 miles from my house that manufactures brew systems. Sharpsville Container is there name. I will post prices after my visit to the factory with them June 1st
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 16, 2012, 01:44:10 am
I got a quote from premiere stainless and stout tanks. However lucky me I just found a company 2 miles from my house that manufactures brew systems. Sharpsville Container is there name. I will post prices after my visit to the factory with them June 1st
Do not mean to rain on your parade but get ready for sticker shock.
Nowadays prices are very high.
I wish I had manufacturer like that close by.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 02:14:16 am
I was having a conversation with John Maier last week, just after he had returned from CBC.  He was commenting about the fact that 1000 new breweries have been licensed to open next year and that with the hop shortage many of them won't be able to get hops.  He said that between all that new competition and no hops, in about 3 years you should be able to buy brewing equipment real cheap.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: euge on May 16, 2012, 03:29:33 am
OMG! There's a hop shortage? 8)

I might need some big fermenters in three years...
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: bo on May 16, 2012, 03:38:10 am
Does anyone remember after the last "hop shortage" people saying that hop prices won't come down, there's not enough crops, yada, yada, yada? Hop prices not only dropped, but I'm paying less now then I did before the shortage. Perceived shortages happen with hops, sugar, coffee, oil, you name it. The market is strained a little and prices goes up for a while, but the supply always comes back and the prices go back down. Unlike things such as crude oil, this is a renewable source.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 16, 2012, 11:20:24 am
You can buy all of the Willamette or Galena that you want. Citra, Simcoe, Amarillo - not so much.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: majorvices on May 16, 2012, 11:39:06 am
Hops don't seem cheaper at all to me. I just order some whole hops for my randal last week - $2.99 an oz. seems like I used to get them for $1.29 back before the first shortage.

And Denny is right, the hop market was tight last year and I expect it to become even tighter in the next couple years. I opened a brewery in Oct. of 2010 and had no problems getting simcoe, Amarillo or simcoe. Last year I was lucky to get centennial.

Also, once this brewing bubble busts again, which it pretty much has too, there will be so many used fermenters on the market people will be giving them away.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: bo on May 16, 2012, 11:53:49 am

Also, once this brewing bubble busts again, which it pretty much has too, there will be so many used fermenters on the market people will be giving them away.

And lots of cheap hops. :D

"Pro Brewer" paying $48 a pound for hops???  What do you charge for a pint, $20?  :D
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: majorvices on May 16, 2012, 12:07:31 pm

Also, once this brewing bubble busts again, which it pretty much has too, there will be so many used fermenters on the market people will be giving them away.

And lots of cheap hops. :D

"Pro Brewer" paying $48 a pound for hops???  What do you charge for a pint, $20?  :D

Lol. No, this was a one time expense of whole hops for a Randall event. I pay between 5 and 10 per lb though, depending on variety.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: bo on May 16, 2012, 12:10:15 pm

Also, once this brewing bubble busts again, which it pretty much has too, there will be so many used fermenters on the market people will be giving them away.

And lots of cheap hops. :D

"Pro Brewer" paying $48 a pound for hops???  What do you charge for a pint, $20?  :D

Lol. No, this was a one time expense of whole hops for a Randall event. I pay between 5 and 10 per lb though, depending on variety.

Glad to hear that. :D

Buying hops by the ounce at a LHBS, is like buying your weekly groceries at the quickie mart.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: jmcamerlengo on May 16, 2012, 01:59:31 pm
Yeh I wont be ready for my system until mid 2014.

Dunno if its appropriate to post but I did get my quote from Premiere Stainless and Stout tanks. Sticker shock on the Premiere stainless system to say the least. 139k for a full 7 bbl system with training and setup. Stout was a good bit cheaper. Hopefully Sharpsville container is cheaper yet, plus the advantages of much cheaper shipping costs if any and if something goes wrong they are right up the street.

Maybe by the time Im ready I will be able to get a used one real cheap, or atleast get fermenters much cheaper.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 03:59:59 pm
Citra, Simcoe, Amarillo - not so much.

Crystal, also.  John said that if they weren't growing their own Crystal, there would be no Brutal this year.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 04:01:15 pm
Hops don't seem cheaper at all to me. I just order some whole hops for my randal last week - $2.99 an oz. seems like I used to get them for $1.29 back before the first shortage.

And Denny is right, the hop market was tight last year and I expect it to become even tighter in the next couple years. I opened a brewery in Oct. of 2010 and had no problems getting simcoe, Amarillo or simcoe. Last year I was lucky to get centennial.

Also, once this brewing bubble busts again, which it pretty much has too, there will be so many used fermenters on the market people will be giving them away.

I've heard that the Centennials will be in short supply this year, too.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: bluesman on May 16, 2012, 04:46:38 pm
Hops don't seem cheaper at all to me. I just order some whole hops for my randal last week - $2.99 an oz. seems like I used to get them for $1.29 back before the first shortage.

And Denny is right, the hop market was tight last year and I expect it to become even tighter in the next couple years. I opened a brewery in Oct. of 2010 and had no problems getting simcoe, Amarillo or simcoe. Last year I was lucky to get centennial.

Also, once this brewing bubble busts again, which it pretty much has too, there will be so many used fermenters on the market people will be giving them away.

I've heard that the Centennials will be in short supply this year, too.

Why is that Denny?  Did the excessive rain and snow this past winter have anything to do with that?

edit: got it...I just read your previous post about the increasing demand.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: bo on May 16, 2012, 04:48:24 pm
If you publicize high hop prices, they will come. ;)
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on May 16, 2012, 05:10:24 pm
Citra, Simcoe, Amarillo - not so much.

Crystal, also.  John said that if they weren't growing their own Crystal, there would be no Brutal this year.

So look for all-Crystal/Willamette IPAs as a trend this fall?

Mmmmmmm....  :-\
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: majorvices on May 16, 2012, 05:15:05 pm
No, crystal is one of the hard ones to come by. Another one I was lucky to get contract for.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: richardt on May 16, 2012, 05:19:37 pm
Might be a good idea for pro brewers to "invest" in a small co-op or acreage that grows hops in an ideal location (for those non-proprietary varieties)--it may take a few years to reach maturity, but it would provide insurance against hop shortages.  Perhaps having a friend with an acreage agree to having you pay for planting your rhizomes there...
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 06:00:31 pm
Might be a good idea for pro brewers to "invest" in a small co-op or acreage that grows hops in an ideal location (for those non-proprietary varieties)--it may take a few years to reach maturity, but it would provide insurance against hop shortages.  Perhaps having a friend with an acreage agree to having you pay for planting your rhizomes there...

I forget just how many acres and varieties of hops Rogue is growing now, but it's a lot.  They grow a lot of their own barley, too.  They started several years back as a hedge against short supply and high price.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 06:01:05 pm
If you publicize high hop prices, they will come. ;)

You may have your cause and effect reversed.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: bo on May 16, 2012, 06:08:46 pm
If you publicize high hop prices, they will come. ;)

You may have your cause and effect reversed.

Maybe, but from what I've seen with other commodities, I don't think so. How many times have you heard the media report that gas prices will slowly climb over the next few months, only to have them jump significantly the next day?

Some varieties are in short supply, but that will be corrected and in a few years they'll be the cheap ones. Economics 101, supply and demand.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 06:20:32 pm
I still think you have reversed cause and effect, but like you say, we'll see.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: richardt on May 16, 2012, 06:57:50 pm
There's a relatively small number of hop growers and they're clustered in certain prime growing areas.  They tend to have co-ops or unions (hmm... price control, possibly) catering to the craft brewing market and homebrewers.
Hops can spontaneously combust, viz. S.S. Steiner 40,000 sf warehouse fire in 2009.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-2060017.html (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-2060017.html)

It isn't just simple supply/demand.  Relatively speaking, the number of hop growers and retailers are small relative to the number of craft brewers and home brewers.  It is hard to say what effect that will have on prices.  Any decrease in sales right after harvest (due to excessively high prices) would be exacerbated by cost of storage and reduced prices later in the year (to try and move the product out of storage and free up warehouse space for next year's crop). 
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2012, 07:00:50 pm
Based on what I'm hearing, there may not be much to store!  Many varieties have been contracted out so there's no availability for them at all.  And short supplies of many other varieties will drive prices up.
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: richardt on May 16, 2012, 07:04:12 pm
That makes sense, too.  If all of the potential yield is already contracted out, then the only way to get some is to pay more for it from someone who's looking to make a buck.  Just as well, I'd love it if someone gave away a 7 bbl system to me for free in a few years.  ;-) (Thread is now back on track).
Title: Re: 7bbl system cost?
Post by: boulderbrewer on May 20, 2012, 04:13:06 am
It never hurts to do your home work, you doing a brewery this year you are 2 years late to find your hops and to contract them, ask me how I know. The farther you can think a head, will serve you at the end.