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Other than Brewing => All Things Food => Topic started by: dean on February 05, 2010, 11:53:43 PM

Title: Pizza Crust?
Post by: dean on February 05, 2010, 11:53:43 PM
Since we got onto the subject of tipping it made me look into pizza crust recipes.  Nothing to do with tipping per'se but just that I'm far enough out in the sticks that its probably just as cost effective to make our own pizza.  I've made them before plenty of times but I've always used the pizza crust mixes sold in the stores and I really like making or doing as much on my own as I can.  I wouldn't say I do it to cut cost because not everything is less expensive to make or do at home, a lot depends on how well a person can do it... "quality" determines cost effectiveness, at least in my mind it does.

So... I'm looking for some pizza crust recipes and who better to turn to than fellow homebrewers, we by nature just seem to look for ways to "do it ourselves".  I guess one of my questions is do I really need yeast for pizza crust mix?  I'd like to make enough up so that I could freeze it and roll it out etc. later also, not just making it for one night. 

This next question might be out there a bit but... has anybody tried using spent grains in a pizza crust mix?
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: beerocd on February 06, 2010, 02:09:34 AM
There's that pizza fatta en casa thread - which boils down to homemade pizza. There's two or three dough recipes there. And yes it's absolutely cheaper and better than going out for pizza. I think maybe I'd decorate the crust with some spent grain but I dunno about the whole ball o dough. Done it in loaves of bread and it's great though.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: woolybuggerbrew on February 28, 2010, 06:14:33 AM
Here's the recipe I use.  Put it in a bread machine and comes out great.

Here's the recipe.
                     1-pound loaf      1/ 1/2-pound loaf


Whole wheat flour                  2 1/4 cups         2 2/3 cups

Gluten Flour               1/4 cup         1/3 cup

Date Sugar (or cane sugar)                   1 tsp            1 1/2 tsp

Sea salt                  1 tsp            1 1/2 tsp

Water                  1 cup         1 1/4 cup

Olive oil                  2 Tbs         3 Tbs

Actie dry yeast                    1 package         4 tsp

Cornmeal                       1 tsp            1 1/2 tsp


Directions:
1. Fit the kneading blade firmly on the shaft in the bread pan.  Carefully measure the flours, salt and sugar, and transfer to the pan.  Add the water, oil and yeast.  Place the bread pan in side the machine and close the lid.

2. Program the breadmaker for the whole wheat dough mode. The unit will begin its operation.

3. At the end of the rising cycle, turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface.  Cover and let rest for 10 minutes.

4. Lightly oil a 12-inch (or 15-inch) pizza pan and sprinkle with the cornmeal (can just use fat free oil spray (like PAM, etc)).  With floured hands, gently stretch the dough into a 12-inch (or 15-inch) circle and place in the prepared pan.  Continue stretching until the dough covers the entire surface of the pan. Push the dough against the rim of the pan to make an edge, then top the dough with your choice of pizza fillings.

5. Bake the pizza on he bottom rack of a preheated 400 F oven for 20 to 25 minutes, until teh crust is golden and the filling is melted and bubbly.  Serve hot.

Notes:
-I used 3 tsp of Active dry yeast (for the 1-pound loaf), as I did not have yeast "packages" (I had the big bottle of bread machine yeast).
-1 pound loaf makes ~ 12 inch pizza, the 1 1/2 pound loaf makes ~ 15 inch pizza.

From: The Bread Machine Gourmet, by Shea MacKenzie
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: euge on February 28, 2010, 09:28:41 AM
Love pizza. Slurry will do just fine for the yeast.

I suggest making a poolish and then proof the pizza dough the next day for a traditional pizza crust. Not Chicago style. Slurry just rocks the house when making bread.

I've always favored a looser dough that spreads out easily but that's another subject.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: bluesman on March 01, 2010, 12:32:10 AM
Check out this site. They are the home pizza making guru's. There's a great thread on Tom Lehmann's formulation.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3c6441f6d406bcbbac30f32be597cae5;www

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3c6441f6d406bcbbac30f32be597cae5&topic=576.0
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: beerocd on March 01, 2010, 01:01:16 AM
How many forums can one guy go to before just going crazy?
I just spent this last week on a BBQ forum leading to today's lunch. (Brisket, round and sausage)

So, who streches how? I can toss but it's more mess than it's worth.
I hold it up off the counter and just keep pulling at it working my way around the crust, letting gravity help the stretch.

Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: euge on March 01, 2010, 06:17:17 AM
I can slap and toss but for a suburban kitchen that just gets flour or cornmeal everywhere. Dock the dough with my fingers and flatten it some. Then I go after it with a French-style rolling pin.

Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 01, 2010, 06:16:02 PM
I shape my dough almost exactly the same way as this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYqw1CLZsA
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: mikeypedersen on March 01, 2010, 07:01:28 PM
I shape my dough almost exactly the same way as this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYqw1CLZsA
Wow, thanks for posting that!
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: euge on March 01, 2010, 07:07:25 PM
That bit about not pinching the edge with the roller is good to know. I've done it plenty of times... :D
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 01, 2010, 07:38:08 PM
I shape my dough almost exactly the same way as this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYqw1CLZsA
Wow, thanks for posting that!

No problem!  Someone directed me to that video when I was trying to figure out the best way to shape my dough.  I thought it was really helpful.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: bluesman on March 01, 2010, 07:43:46 PM
I shape my dough almost exactly the same way as this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjYqw1CLZsA
Wow, thanks for posting that!

No problem!  Someone directed me to that video when I was trying to figure out the best way to shape my dough.  I thought it was really helpful.

Interesting techniques. Thanks!

What's your latest and greatest dough formulation?
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 01, 2010, 08:20:22 PM
What's your latest and greatest dough formulation?

Pretty much the same as it's been for awhile.  I just really like this formulation.  What about you?


For a 16" pizza:
12.7 oz King Arthur bread flour
9 g vital wheat gluten
1/2 tsp instant dry yeast
8.5 oz cold water
.25 oz kosher salt
.25 oz olive oil

- 48 hour cold rise
- 2 hour warm up
- 550 degree oven (preheat stone for at least 1 hour)
- Bake the pizza on a screen in the upper portion of the oven until the bottom is solid enough to slide off the screen
- Rotate pizza 180 degrees and transfer from screen to stone
- Bake on stone until the bottom has reached desired doneness
- Turn on broiler, move the pizza back up to the upper rack for 30-60 seconds to finish the toppings
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: mikeypedersen on March 01, 2010, 08:33:33 PM
What is, and where do I find, Vital Wheat Gluten.....That's the only thing I have left out of your recipe.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: bluesman on March 01, 2010, 09:17:32 PM
What's your latest and greatest dough formulation?

Pretty much the same as it's been for awhile.  I just really like this formulation.  What about you?


For a 16" pizza:
12.7 oz King Arthur bread flour
9 g vital wheat gluten
1/2 tsp instant dry yeast
8.5 oz cold water
.25 oz kosher salt
.25 oz olive oil

- 48 hour cold rise
- 2 hour warm up
- 550 degree oven (preheat stone for at least 1 hour)
- Bake the pizza on a screen in the upper portion of the oven until the bottom is solid enough to slide off the screen
- Rotate pizza 180 degrees and transfer from screen to stone
- Bake on stone until the bottom has reached desired doneness
- Turn on broiler, move the pizza back up to the upper rack for 30-60 seconds to finish the toppings


I tried this one last time and it worked out pretty well. I'm still not settled on a formulation yet.

On to the current formula I’m using. This one starts with the 61% hydration. However, that is the only variable that has been changed. All the other ones have been consistent. The mixing regimen and poolish is as follows:

3-hr Poolish (in order of ingredients added)

Total amount of water
Total amount of yeast
50% of the sugar
50% of total amount of flour (sifted in)

Dissolve sugar & yeast in 95 ° F water. Stir with a wire whisk. Sift in the flour and, using the paddle attachment, mix everything together. Let sit for 3 hours.

Final mix

Add the rest of the sugar, all the salt and sift in remaining flour. Using the dough hook, mix and knead everything together until no raw flour is visible any longer. Rest for 20 mins. This step is crucial to get the flour properly hydrated. After 20 mins, start kneading again and let the oil run down the sides of the bowl and knead into the dough. Knead on Speed 2 for about 10-12 mins. The dough came off the hook at around 82°F. A 2-minute hand kneading on the bench followed before it went into a slightly oiled bowl, got covered with plastic wrap and then was put into the fridge.

Formula 61%

Flour (100%):       902.53 g 
Water (61%):       550.54 g 
IDY (.7%):         6.32 g
Salt (2%):       18.05 g
Oil (1%):                 9.03 g
Sugar (1.5%):       13.54 g

Total (166.2%):   1500 g

Single Ball:      375 g

Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: bluesman on March 01, 2010, 09:19:56 PM
What is, and where do I find, Vital Wheat Gluten.....That's the only thing I have left out of your recipe.

I haven't been able to find this at any of my local grocery stores. Here's a link for an online order.

http://www.koshervitamins.com/shop/stores_app/Browse_Item_Details.asp?Item_ID=3238&zmam=83101301&zmas=1&zmac=2&zmap=AM-37120
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 01, 2010, 09:42:09 PM
What is, and where do I find, Vital Wheat Gluten.....That's the only thing I have left out of your recipe.

I got it at Whole Foods.

edit: Oh, and basically it's a high-gluten flour that increases the protein content of the dough.  Increasing the protein content is believed to increase the amount of crust browning and crispiness.  In my experience, the vital wheat gluten does in fact make a difference in those respects.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: euge on March 02, 2010, 03:38:45 AM
What is, and where do I find, Vital Wheat Gluten.....That's the only thing I have left out of your recipe.

I got it at Whole Foods.

edit: Oh, and basically it's a high-gluten flour that increases the protein content of the dough.  Increasing the protein content is believed to increase the amount of crust browning and crispiness.  In my experience, the vital wheat gluten does in fact make a difference in those respects.

That's good to know because I've found even All-Purpose is as good as Bread flour. I quit using gluten a ways back. but I still have lot's of it.

The trick with doing a poolish is making it a day or so before. Really it's like making a starter but it's much more than that. The poolish ferments out by the yeast eating most of the starch and leaving the gluten behind plus a bunch of really tasty by products such as alcohol. This then acts as the liquid basis for any batch of bread or pizza dough.

About 16 hours before baking I'll stir just enough flour into the water that's asked for in the recipe to make a thick liquid. Add yeast and stir.

Store overnight in plastic container with a snap on lid. Throw a kitchen towel over it. A warm place would be good. Really this should be easy for us brewers.

This poolish goes on top of the rest of the flour and is mixed in- usually at the three hour mark before baking.

Give it a try.

Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: redbeerman on March 02, 2010, 03:07:36 PM
Just like homebrewers to take an art and turn it into a science! ;) ::)
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on March 06, 2010, 10:58:23 PM
Hey bluesman,

I've been thinking of making a poolish for my Lehmann dough one of these days.  Since you've been making them for your recent doughs, maybe you can answer a few basic questions.

1) What is a poolish?

2) What is the point of a poolish?

3) Do you notice an appreciable difference in the doughs made with a poolish as opposed to the 24-48 hour cold-rise Lehmann doughs?

4) How do you make a poolish?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: niquejim on March 08, 2010, 02:10:40 AM
Hey bluesman,

I've been thinking of making a poolish for my Lehmann dough one of these days.  Since you've been making them for your recent doughs, maybe you can answer a few basic questions.

1) What is a poolish?

2) What is the point of a poolish?

4) How do you make a poolish?

Thanks!

A poolish is like a small sourdough starter...

The point is to get the yeast working and for the slightly richer flavour...

As said add all the water and enough flour to make a paste

You will then add the rest of the flour and all other ingredients when it is time to mix...which I would do several hours ahead of time

Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: mikeypedersen on March 08, 2010, 06:59:46 PM
What is, and where do I find, Vital Wheat Gluten.....That's the only thing I have left out of your recipe.

I got it at Whole Foods.

edit: Oh, and basically it's a high-gluten flour that increases the protein content of the dough.  Increasing the protein content is believed to increase the amount of crust browning and crispiness.  In my experience, the vital wheat gluten does in fact make a difference in those respects.
I found Vital Wheat Gluten at a larger grocery store and it did make a huge difference in my dough.  However, it was more in how elastic it was rather than how it browned.  It says right on the package that mixed with water it becomes almost taffe-like.  It dramatically improved how easy it was to work and spin my dough.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: bluesman on March 08, 2010, 07:39:08 PM
Hey bluesman,

I've been thinking of making a poolish for my Lehmann dough one of these days.  Since you've been making them for your recent doughs, maybe you can answer a few basic questions.

1) What is a poolish?

2) What is the point of a poolish?

4) How do you make a poolish?

Thanks!

A poolish is like a small sourdough starter...

The point is to get the yeast working and for the slightly richer flavour...

As said add all the water and enough flour to make a paste

You will then add the rest of the flour and all other ingredients when it is time to mix...which I would do several hours ahead of time



Pretty much what niquejim has stated. I find that the dough has a different flavor when a poolish is used. The dough also tends to be easier to work with...more elastic.

I've done several batches so far and like the results. I am playing with the hydration % at this point. The only downside is the time factor. It takes more time to process the dough but for me it's all about the results. If the results are good...I'll take the time needed to acheive the end result. It's kind of like homebrewing in that sense for me.

I'm going to try a 61% poolish tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: denny on March 08, 2010, 07:43:01 PM
I found Vital Wheat Gluten at a larger grocery store and it did make a huge difference in my dough.  However, it was more in how elastic it was rather than how it browned.  It says right on the package that mixed with water it becomes almost taffe-like.  It dramatically improved how easy it was to work and spin my dough.

I just started using this in my bread and I agree on the huge differences it makes.  Won't bake bread without it again!
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: redbeerman on March 11, 2010, 01:59:17 AM
What are we gonna start a bagel thread next, oy! ;)  Vital Wheat Gluten increases the protein and elasticity in the dough, but I've found that the right combination of kneading and rising break down the glutens in flour well enough to give the correct amount elasticity to the dough for great pizza. Just sayin' ;)  Myabe I'm just too old school. ;D
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: The Professor on March 11, 2010, 02:30:29 AM
Myabe I'm just too old school. ;D

Not at all...adding gluten enhances the dough somewhat, but it is strictly optional. 
While most American pizzerias (including old school, NY places) use high gluten flour, if the dough isn't soft enough it can make for a tough crust.  In Italy, I'm told they generally use a softer flour and certainly don't add more gluten. 

The NJ pizzeria I worked in many years ago made a very soft dough the day before use (when possible...sometimes we got slammed and had to make same-day dough;  but freshly made dough makes a decidedly sub-standard pizza).   I guess that making it the day before gave time for the elasticity to develop, as well as a characteristic lightness...the dough was very supple and easily shaped, and baked up light and airy on the all important outer rim crust.

I've duplicated the dough at home many times and it works great...but what I can't duplicate and what sets some average pizzas apart from an outstanding one  is the temperature of the pizza oven;  at the pizzeria we operated the ovens at almost 800°F...the pie was in and out in a very short time and was authentically and nicely singed (if you've ever had a pie at John's in Greenwich Village, NYC, you'll know what I'm referring to).  The highest temps I can get from my home oven (with stone in place) is around 550°F...close enough,  and it makes a good pie, but I do miss the character that  a really blazing hot oven contributes.
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: bluesman on March 11, 2010, 02:34:52 AM
What are we gonna start a bagel thread next, oy! ;)  

Now that's one I haven't tried yet.  ;D
Title: Re: Pizza Crust?
Post by: redbeerman on March 11, 2010, 02:45:31 AM
John's is da bomb!  Best in Manhattan!