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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 23, 2012, 08:27:12 PM

Title: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 23, 2012, 08:27:12 PM
So a brew buddy of mine has used this yeast a few times and I've liked the beers he's brewed with it. I use S05 quite a bit and I've decided to ditch the dry and give this liquid yeast a shot in an IPA.

Other than the temp requirements and pitching, anybody have feedback for me on this yeast? Like it not like it and why? Seemed pretty clean and neutral to me when I tasted it.

My friend says it ferments like crazy and blows out the solution in the airlock on his bigger beers. I've not used much from White Labs other than the usual 001, and some Belgian strains in the past. I'm talking 5 years ago.

TIA

Steve
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: firedog23 on May 23, 2012, 08:39:52 PM
Be careful when you open it. I used it a few months ago and it exploded all over me and I barely got any into the wort. This was before I did yeast starters.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: hoser on May 23, 2012, 08:40:53 PM
Personally, I am not a fan of it.  But, I know other people that are.  To each their own.  I generally use WLP001, Wyeast 1272, or WLP007 for my American ales (WLP007 is probably my house yeast).

This is the only yeast I have had stall on me in over 6 years of brewing and it happened twice with 2 different vials in 2 different beers only a couple of weeks apart in beers I have brewed before with great success with WLP001 and WLP007.  Even though I made a starter, oxygenated, yeast nutrient, etc., like I always do.

But, it is homebrewing and their is nothing wrong with trying something new and learning.  Like I said, others have use it and like the results.  But, I will stick with WLP001/007 from now on.  Just my $0.02.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 24, 2012, 12:10:28 AM
OK so many of the White Labs vials have been a hassle to open without spraying everywhere and it's always a challenge to do it without making a mess. I am familiar with that procedure. My experience has been if it doesn't want to spray, the yeast is probably not at it's optimum. Every batch I ever made with their yeast where the vial didn't give me a nice blast of CO2 while opening it was a slow ferment or was so bad it didn't fully ferment. Checking dates is a good idea I guess.

Starters....thought about making one. Was trying to decide what to do since I have S05 packets and two vials of this White Labs and I'm brewing ten gallons.


Just checked and the vials are both dated for Jul 11th 2012.....definitely need to make starters with them.

Looking to brew a mid 60's OG IPA which warrants a bit more pitch than one packet or vial per batch particularly if this stuff is getting a bit old, which has tripped me up in the past.

Hmmmm.........
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: DrewG on May 24, 2012, 05:50:05 PM
Quote
Be careful when you open it. I used it a few months ago and it exploded all over me and I barely got any into the wort. This was before I did yeast starters.

Quote
OK so many of the White Labs vials have been a hassle to open without spraying everywhere and it's always a challenge to do it without making a mess. I am familiar with that procedure.

You may already do this, if so apologies.

If you crack the seal and let the air escape before you let it warm up and shake it, no more geysers. Worked like a charm for me.

Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on May 24, 2012, 06:12:37 PM
I bought it only because the colorful vial caught my eye!  Plan to brew an IPA with it.

Come on, which one would YOU choose?

(http://www.westcoastersd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/whitelabs.jpg)
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 24, 2012, 06:28:08 PM
OK so many of the White Labs vials have been a hassle to open without spraying everywhere and it's always a challenge to do it without making a mess. I am familiar with that procedure. My experience has been if it doesn't want to spray, the yeast is probably not at it's optimum. Every batch I ever made with their yeast where the vial didn't give me a nice blast of CO2 while opening it was a slow ferment or was so bad it didn't fully ferment. Checking dates is a good idea I guess.

Starters....thought about making one. Was trying to decide what to do since I have S05 packets and two vials of this White Labs and I'm brewing ten gallons.

  • I either need to make two starters using the white labs, or use both vials in one batch and use rehydrated S05 in the other as a comparison for flavor etc. That might be interesting.
  • Or make a starter with one vial, pitch it with the other vial straight away into one batch, and use S05 in the other batch again for comparison.
  • Or mix the two yeasts! Put a vial and a rehydrated packet of S05 in each batch.

Just checked and the vials are both dated for Jul 11th 2012.....definitely need to make starters with them.

Looking to brew a mid 60's OG IPA which warrants a bit more pitch than one packet or vial per batch particularly if this stuff is getting a bit old, which has tripped me up in the past.

Hmmmm.........

Definitely make a starter with the vials.

I'd pitch both batches with different yeasts and see what you think on a side by side comparison.  I've done this recently with a couple different strains and it has helped me to rule out certain yeast for certain styles and some yeast altogether.

The differences between two batches of the same recipe pitched with different strains can be eye-opening, even if your pitching two similar strains.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: denny on May 24, 2012, 06:35:38 PM
I bought it only because the colorful vial caught my eye!  Plan to brew an IPA with it.

Come on, which one would YOU choose?

(http://www.westcoastersd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/whitelabs.jpg)
(http://www.wyeastlab.com/client/images/products/BeerActivatorfrt2011.jpg)
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 24, 2012, 06:43:15 PM
You make me smile, Denny.

In 20 years or so, I've never actually used a White Labs yeast.

I guess I'm brand-loyal.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: DrewG on May 24, 2012, 06:46:58 PM
Quote
I guess I'm brand-loyal.

Funny how that goes, isn't it? I used a Wyeast pack once, had a bad experience with it that likely had nothing to do with the quality of the product, yet now I never use anything that doesn't start with WLP.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on May 24, 2012, 06:47:40 PM
My LHBS only carries White Labs.  But, I have bought some Wyeast online, recently.   :D
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: oly on May 24, 2012, 07:24:31 PM
I bought it only because the colorful vial caught my eye!  Plan to brew an IPA with it.

Come on, which one would YOU choose?

(http://www.westcoastersd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/whitelabs.jpg)
(http://www.wyeastlab.com/client/images/products/BeerActivatorfrt2011.jpg)

Does Wyeast have a version of this strain?
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: snowtiger87 on May 24, 2012, 07:27:13 PM
Quote
Come on, which one would YOU choose?

From those I would pick American Farmhouse or Saison II but that is just how I roll.  ;D
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 25, 2012, 12:24:33 PM
Quote
Be careful when you open it. I used it a few months ago and it exploded all over me and I barely got any into the wort. This was before I did yeast starters.

Quote
OK so many of the White Labs vials have been a hassle to open without spraying everywhere and it's always a challenge to do it without making a mess. I am familiar with that procedure.

You may already do this, if so apologies.

If you crack the seal and let the air escape before you let it warm up and shake it, no more geysers. Worked like a charm for me.

Just did that five minutes ago. The liquid is fully carbonated like a beer. I let them rest with the caps barely loosened for a minute and they started ejecting the liquid and foaming! They were fresh from the refrigerator and under 40 degrees. I've sealed them again and I'm waiting for them to hit room temp before making the starter.

Thanks for the tip. I believe this will help tremendously.

Ok....it did help a LOT. I had to repeatedly vent them. Probably did it every 20 minutes until the starter was done, chilled, and ready to go. Then took a few more vents after shaking and finally no mess!

Such a simple stupid practice but helps so much.

Thanks again

Steve
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 29, 2012, 10:12:10 AM
The San Diego yeast peaked and appears to have already begun a decline after only three days of fermentation. It reached full krausen and was very active for a couple days.
Meanwhile the S05 went crazy and blew out the airlock. I guess I need to check gravities and see where we're at but I'll be out of town for almost four days and won't have a chance to do so until after that.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: DrewG on May 29, 2012, 01:22:27 PM
Quote
Ok....it did help a LOT. I had to repeatedly vent them. Probably did it every 20 minutes until the starter was done, chilled, and ready to go. Then took a few more vents after shaking and finally no mess!

Such a simple stupid practice but helps so much.

Thanks again

I should have clarified cracking the seal, vent for a few seconds, and repeat but you figured that out anyway. Glad it helped.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: DaveR on May 29, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
A few months ago I had a vial of WLP090 that was just out of date. I made a starter with it. The starter never seemed to take off like other yeast. After it sat for a week in the refrigerator I decanted and pitched an underwhelming (at least to my eye) amount of yeast into a half batch destined for a small corny keg. Then I left town.

When I returned a few days later it didn't appear that the yeast had every taken off. But it had. The gravity was 1.012. OG had been 1.062. I've never seen a yeast ferment that quickly. I pitched some of the cake from that batch into a fairly high gravity IPA. That fermented down to 1.012 as well. The fermentation didn't appear any more robust than I normally see with WLP001. It did, however, seem to finish more quickly.

Both batches made with WLP090 turned out quite well. I don't see any real advantage over WLP001. For me fermentation time isn't a big issue. Hard to know a yeast really well after only using it twice, though. I'll probably try it again, soon. I just built a chamber that will allow me to control fermentation temps. Most of the beers I made over the two last summers have had issues. It wasn't the strain of yeast. It was because I wasn't able to keep fermentation temps down low enough.     
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: dee on May 29, 2012, 08:49:57 PM
I recently brewed 10 gallons of a low gravity red ale (1.043) as an experiment and pitched WLP090 in one bucket and US05 in the other.  I made a 2 liter starter for the 090 and used recently harvested US05 slurry.  The recipe was very simple with 3 malts and 25 IBU so there wasn't much place for flaws to hide.  Both yeast strains were pitched at 65 degrees and held there for 4 days.  The 090 had a vigorous start and was already dropping by day 4 so I let it free rise to finish up after that.  I ended up kegging the WLP090 batch after 7 days and carbed and crashed.  By day 10 it was clean and drinkable with no esters or off flavors.  The US05 batch was lagging quite a bit and even by day 12 it still wasn't even close to the 090 in clarity or flavor.  I believe San Diego Super Yeast does work as advertised.  I plan on brewing a pilsner recipe with it next and if the results are the same, I'll probably make this my house yeast strain.  The turnaround is outstanding with, in my opinion, no downside.  It's similar to WLP007 in that respect but I believe it is cleaner, quicker.     
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on May 30, 2012, 01:01:27 AM
I recently brewed 10 gallons of a low gravity red ale (1.043) as an experiment and pitched WLP090 in one bucket and US05 in the other.  I made a 2 liter starter for the 090 and used recently harvested US05 slurry.  The recipe was very simple with 3 malts and 25 IBU so there wasn't much place for flaws to hide.  Both yeast strains were pitched at 65 degrees and held there for 4 days.  The 090 had a vigorous start and was already dropping by day 4 so I let it free rise to finish up after that.  I ended up kegging the WLP090 batch after 7 days and carbed and crashed.  By day 10 it was clean and drinkable with no esters or off flavors.  The US05 batch was lagging quite a bit and even by day 12 it still wasn't even close to the 090 in clarity or flavor.  I believe San Diego Super Yeast does work as advertised.  I plan on brewing a pilsner recipe with it next and if the results are the same, I'll probably make this my house yeast strain.  The turnaround is outstanding with, in my opinion, no downside.  It's similar to WLP007 in that respect but I believe it is cleaner, quicker.   

If you brew a Pils style with it, please let us know how it turned out!
I've considered doing a Pils with ale yeast numerous times but never tried it. I'm sitting on three Oz of Czech Saaz right now too.

I really appreciate the feedback everyone.
Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: davidgzach on May 30, 2012, 12:39:19 PM
Quote
I guess I'm brand-loyal.

Funny how that goes, isn't it? I used a Wyeast pack once, had a bad experience with it that likely had nothing to do with the quality of the product, yet now I never use anything that doesn't start with WLP.

I had a bad experience with some WL830 and have used only Wyeast since.  I do however think the smack pack is easier to handle.

Dave
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on May 30, 2012, 01:32:57 PM
Quote
I guess I'm brand-loyal.

Funny how that goes, isn't it? I used a Wyeast pack once, had a bad experience with it that likely had nothing to do with the quality of the product, yet now I never use anything that doesn't start with WLP.

I had a bad experience with some WL830 and have used only Wyeast since.  I do however think the smack pack is easier to handle.

Dave
I just used the Wyeast Kölsch on Monday, but the smack pack wouldn't smack!  No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get that inner pouch of wort to burst.  But, it didn't matter.  The starter worked fine and my batch of Kölsch bubbling away in the fermenter right now.  But, that stupid smack pack put me in a bad mood!

Given the choice, I think I will always buy White Labs yeast.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: jmcamerlengo on May 30, 2012, 01:53:51 PM
Don't get cornered into buying one brand of yeast.  I have found that the same strains from different companies perform very differently and taste quite different.  I did a Kolsch recently and split the batch between both companies Kolsch strains. They performed different in fermentation and tasted quite different as well. You may find you prefer one companies strain opposed to another in a lot of cases.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: erockrph on May 30, 2012, 02:43:50 PM
I'll be honest, I usually use White Labs only because their numbering system is a hell of a lot easier for me to remember (at least for most of the yeasts I use or am interested in). Even though I haven't used 570 or 500 or 090 yet, I know what they are. I have no clue what their Wyeast equivalents are without looking them up (other than there is no Wyeast equivalent for 090). I love the one Wyeast strain I've used (3638), so I'm sure I'll dabble in the future, but I just naturally gravitate to the White Labs versions because I know what they are.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: skyler on June 10, 2012, 07:04:50 PM
I often find that for a "family" of yeasts, like the "American Ale" family, for example, there is one strain that I far prefer over all others 90% of the time. Of all the American Ale strains - WLP001/Wyeast 1056/US-05, WLP051/Wyeast 1272, Wyeast 1450, WLP090, Wyeast 1332 (which isn't really in the same category, IMO), ECY10, and Pacman, I quite liked ECY10, but since it is an insane hassle to get that on the west coast, I just don't bother. Otherwise, I like Pacman 90% of the time, because it is VERY clean, flocculant, consistent, and it lets me ferment VERY cold. But since it can be somewhat difficult for me to obtain Pacman in the bay area (needing to drive 30 min to get some for $3 more than I pay for other yeast strains), I prefer good ol' WLP001/Wyeast 1056 over all the others 90% of the time. And since I can always get fresh slurry of it for free from nearby brewpubs, I just really think WLP001 is the bee's knees. It is fast, consistent, alcohol tolerant, fairly temperature tolerant (I am pretty happy with its performance anywhere from 58F to 68F), and my only real problem with it is that it can be a pain to get the yeast to fall out of suspension, even with a cold crash and gelatin (no yeast has ever given me as much trouble as US-05 in this arena).

I used WLP090 3 times from the same vial. The first beer I made, a hoppy red session ale, came out fine, though it fermented no faster than WLP001 and it was far less flocculant than Pacman. It also finished a little higher than expected. I then tried it in a porter that I have brewed several times before, usually with English ale strains - it came out as expected. The attenuation was notably less aggressive than with other American Ale strains (70% - which is the same as that recipe will give me with Wyeast 1318). And finally I   brewed a big red rye ale with WLP090 - this one oddly fermented quite dry (83% attenuation) and tasted fine. What I gather is that WLP090 is an acceptable, if tempermental strain. It will ferment very dry or very sweet, depending on wort fermentability, and it is fairly neutral, but doesn't help the hops "shine" the way that Pacman, Chico, and ECY10 do. All in all, I would consider it a decent strain, but its speed didn't really outperform WLP001, though it was more flocculant. If I wanted a flocculant, turbo-speed yeast, I would just use WLP002/Wyeast 1968 and ferment at about 62F.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on June 10, 2012, 09:47:02 PM
I threw 5oz of pellets into each carboy last week Sunday. 2oz Centennial, 1oz Citra, 1oz Chinook, 1oz Columbus. Letting them sit two weeks or so. Three weeks total on the yeast and hopefully plenty of time to let them clear. S05 was quite turbid compared to WLP090 last week when I added pellets to primary. I'm away on vacation out of state. When I get home I will rack to kegs. I wonder if the fast fermenting 090 would be more predisposed to autolysis sooner than S05, WLP001, or Wyeast 1056? Looking forward to taste testing!

Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: erockrph on June 28, 2012, 02:31:53 AM
The head brewer from Union Station Brewery in Providence just told me that they use this yeast for their house ale strain. I noticed a distinct yeasty note in their ales - definitely not as clean as I assumed this strain would be. In fact, I was expecting him to say that they used a British strain. It could be from his fermentation schedule, though. He starts at 70 for the first day, then drops to 65 to finish out. I generally go the other direction with Cal Ale strains. I liked the character it gave to their brown ale and porter, but not so much for their APA's.

He said they repitch for about 10 generations, by the way.
Title: Re: White Labs San Diego Superyeast!
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on June 29, 2012, 03:18:48 PM
The head brewer from Union Station Brewery in Providence just told me that they use this yeast for their house ale strain. I noticed a distinct yeasty note in their ales - definitely not as clean as I assumed this strain would be. In fact, I was expecting him to say that they used a British strain. It could be from his fermentation schedule, though. He starts at 70 for the first day, then drops to 65 to finish out. I generally go the other direction with Cal Ale strains. I liked the character it gave to their brown ale and porter, but not so much for their APA's.

He said they repitch for about 10 generations, by the way.

Gee 10 seems like more than I've heard most brewers go for....I recall 5 is a safer number but I'm sure they've sorted that out. I think you get mutations and other problems past a certain point. Might explain your yeasty tasting experience but so would over pitching.

I have yet to taste my IPA made with this yeast. It's been kegged for over a week now. Sat on dry hops for two weeks. The S05 version tastes great.

I can see how this would make a good house yeast since it's so damn fast fermenting. So long as it's clean, this would be a helpful aspect in some situations. It also cleared a lot better / faster than S05 but S05 isn't exactly known for it's floc performance! Happens eventually but takes weeks in the keg.

My brother in law is opening a new brewery. I'm going to have him try it and see what he thinks for a few pilot beers early in the game. He's brewing almost exclusively American ales using WLP001 or 1056 and I convinced him to try S05 which he uses mostly now. If my IPA turns out, he might be interested in switching to the 090.