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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: Titanium Brewing on May 31, 2012, 11:50:24 PM

Title: Just sayin
Post by: Titanium Brewing on May 31, 2012, 11:50:24 PM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixpli01.wav=Pliny (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixpli01.wav=Pliny)  ;)
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: dbeechum on June 01, 2012, 05:35:43 AM
I refuse to say "Ply-knee" for this reason. Talked with Vinnie about it once and he shook his head saying he knew now, but didn't know then.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: redbeerman on June 01, 2012, 11:28:03 AM
Huh, ain't that some s***.  Did not know that.  Live and learn.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: jeffy on June 01, 2012, 11:30:36 AM
I refuse to say "Ply-knee" for this reason. Talked with Vinnie about it once and he shook his head saying he knew now, but didn't know then.
Hey!  Me too!  He gave me that "it's too late now" look.....
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: repo on June 01, 2012, 12:22:32 PM
Got correct pronunciation a few years ago from a buddy who knew all about Pliny before ever hearing of the beer. Hard to change.

I refuse to say "Ply-knee" for this reason. Talked with Vinnie about it once and he shook his head saying he knew now, but didn't know then.

I'll bet you say las an-gel-es all the time ;)
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: ccfoo242 on June 01, 2012, 12:51:17 PM
This is like people who pronounce primer like primmer. And why I hate the English language.

-Sent from the future.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: theDarkSide on June 01, 2012, 12:55:55 PM
I just can't bring myself to say "plin-knee"...sounds like I'm ordering a Zima or something.

An wtf with saying apricot like "ape-ri-cot"?  :P
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: repo on June 01, 2012, 01:00:44 PM
I just can't bring myself to say "plin-knee"...sounds like I'm ordering a Zima or something.

An wtf with saying apricot like "ape-ri-cot"?  :P

How do you say April?     App-rill
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on June 01, 2012, 01:44:07 PM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixpli01.wav=Pliny (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixpli01.wav=Pliny)  ;)
(http://img.tfd.com/wn/55/6A162-pliny.png)
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: bluesman on June 01, 2012, 01:44:56 PM
Sounds like.... "Good n Plenty".

I've always pronounced it "Ply-knee"... :-[

Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on June 01, 2012, 01:52:56 PM
Sounds like.... "Good n Plenty".

I've always pronounced it "Ply-knee"... :-[
I guess it rhymes with Vinnie
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: dbeechum on June 01, 2012, 02:25:03 PM
Rhymes better when you say it correctly!
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: lornemagill on June 01, 2012, 02:45:36 PM
its like wort=wert.  say it how ever you like.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: redbeerman on June 01, 2012, 03:25:32 PM
Tomato  :o
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: tschmidlin on June 01, 2012, 04:12:54 PM
They should have spelled it Plinny if they expected us to know how to pronounce it.  I'd heard of Pliny the Elder (and Younger) before the beer(s), but I still didn't know how it was supposed to be pronounced.  I go back and forth, sometimes it's Pliny, other times Plinny.

But it's Vinnie's beer, he can pronounce it any way he wants regardless of the historical pronunciation.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: Joe Sr. on June 01, 2012, 04:25:43 PM
I never even would have thought to call it "Ply-knee."  But since you can't get it here, it's never been an issue.

What I would like to know is how are you supposed to pronounce Duvel?
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: dbeechum on June 01, 2012, 04:58:58 PM
Due-vel
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: Joe Sr. on June 01, 2012, 05:14:29 PM
Accent on which syllable?

I've heard it both ways.  Due-VEL and DUE-vel.

I tend to go for Due-VEL.  For no particular reason...  But I always feel like maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: erockrph on June 01, 2012, 05:21:48 PM
Due-vel

I've heard both DOO-vƏl and doo-VELL. I believe the first is the proper pronunciation, but I have a hard time shaking my French and usually say the latter.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: theoman on June 01, 2012, 05:31:54 PM
Due-vel

I've heard both DOO-vƏl...

That's pretty accurate, but if you want to be picky, the "OO" is a sound that isn't in the English language. The best way I can think to describe it is it's somewhere between "UH" and "OO" but focused just behind the teeth.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: erockrph on June 01, 2012, 05:41:10 PM
Due-vel

I've heard both DOO-vƏl...

That's pretty accurate, but if you want to be picky, the "OO" is a sound that isn't in the English language. The best way I can think to describe it is it's somewhere between "UH" and "OO" but focused just behind the teeth.

Like the french tu?
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: ccfoo242 on June 01, 2012, 06:01:19 PM
Bud-Wize-Er  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: Upstate Dan on June 01, 2012, 07:17:51 PM
When I found out that Pliny comes from Plinius it made a lot more sense. Otherwise I would have thought it was PLY-knee myself.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: denny on June 01, 2012, 07:23:03 PM
I guess education just isn't what it used to be.  I learned it as "Plinny" way back in 1968. 
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: redbeerman on June 01, 2012, 08:13:50 PM
I guess education just isn't what it used to be.  I learned it as "Plinny" way back in 1968.

I'm suprised you can remember 1968. ;)
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 01, 2012, 08:26:40 PM
Being the volcano groupie that I am, I've spent quite a bit of time studying the 79 AD eruption of Vesuvius.  Pliny the Younger gives an eyewitness account of the eruption, which includes a description of the death of his uncle, Pliny the Elder.

Until today, I never have heard of it being pronounced "ply knee."  I've always heard it spoken as rhyming with Vinnie.   

I mean, come on guys...  Can you really hear some Italian guy saying, "Yo, Ply Knee!"
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 01, 2012, 08:31:50 PM
I just can't bring myself to say "plin-knee"...sounds like I'm ordering a Zima or something.

An wtf with saying apricot like "ape-ri-cot"?  :P

How do you say April?     App-rill

I say Apelila.  (ah pay LEE la)
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: Joe Sr. on June 01, 2012, 08:33:44 PM
Being the volcano groupie that I am, I've spent quite a bit of time studying the 79 AD eruption of Vesuvius.  Pliny the Younger gives an eyewitness account of the eruption, which includes a description of the death of his uncle, Pliny the Elder.

Until today, I never have heard of it being pronounced "ply knee."  I've always heard it spoken as rhyming with Vinnie.   

I mean, come on guys...  Can you really hear some Italian guy saying, "Yo, Ply Knee!"
I'm with you Carl.

Shin, win, fin, thin. Logically, the pronunciation of Plin follows.

It's not spelled Pliney, after all.

And Vesuvius erupted on August 24th, which just happens to be my birthday.  So I've spent a bit of time reading about it, too.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: Upstate Dan on June 01, 2012, 10:16:52 PM
I appreciate the pronunciation correction and the middle school history refresher, but the grammar police are sure writing lots of tickets today. They'd lead you to believe the English language has consistent pronunciation rules!

Vinnie is short for Vincent or Vicenzo and gets an extra 'n.' Why not Pliny?
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 01, 2012, 11:06:32 PM
I appreciate the pronunciation correction and the middle school history refresher, but the grammar police are sure writing lots of tickets today. They'd lead you to believe the English language has consistent pronunciation rules!

Vinnie is short for Vincent or Vicenzo and gets an extra 'n.' Why not Pliny?

Guess you need to jump into the TARDIS, go back in time and ask the Plinys for yourself.  A two millenium old traditon is pretty hard to refute.  And I believe Pliny comes from Latin, not English.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: tonyp on June 02, 2012, 12:48:37 AM
piny (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/piny?s=t), while it also can be spelled piney, even without the e its still pronouced py-knee. i'll guarantee there are hundreds of other examples for both sides.

In any case, I, for one, even if its wrong, call it ply-knee because it sounds better to my ears.

I'm not a huge gallagher fan but this routine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfz3kFNVopk) about the english language is epic.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: a10t2 on June 02, 2012, 01:32:37 AM
And Vesuvius erupted on August 24th, which just happens to be my birthday.

In whose calendar?  ;)
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: nateo on June 02, 2012, 02:09:15 AM
How do you pronounce the "sauvin" in Nelson Sauvin? I say ply-knee too, but only because other people pronounced it first, and I just went along with it. I'm such a conformist.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 02, 2012, 02:10:57 AM
And Vesuvius erupted on August 24th, which just happens to be my birthday.

In whose calendar?  ;)

With a bit of basic research you can figure that out for yourself.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: nateo on June 02, 2012, 02:18:42 AM
Also, why is "wort" pronounced "wert" and not "vert?" I barely remember high school Deutsch, but I'm pretty sure w's make a v sound.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 02, 2012, 02:41:07 AM
I'm watching the Cubs at SF.  Melky Cabrera is at bat.  How do you suppose he pronounces his first name?

FWIW Melky got a base hit.

Based on Latin pronunciations, it makes more sense that Pliny would be pronounced plee knee rather than ply knee.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: tygo on June 02, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
Well, the beer is named Ply-nee according to Vinnie and the ancient writer is named Plinny.  I think I can live with the discrepancy.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: captain_sousie on June 02, 2012, 03:37:42 AM
Based on Latin pronunciations, it makes more sense that Pliny would be pronounced plee knee rather than ply knee.

+1 Latin pronunciation (and Italian for that matter) does not have the "ih" vowel or the "ei" diphthong at all.  At least that is what my diction professors have all instructed.  It only has a pure "ee" sound for the i or an i modifying a consonant, such is the case with the proper pronunciation of the name Giovanni (hint not djeeovanni).  Consequently, the correct pronunciation would be Pleenee.

Edit:  ;D

This is like people who pronounce primer like primmer. And why I hate the English language.

-Sent from the future.

As for that example, it's a standard British colloquial pronunciation.  It is similar to the spelling differences from "gray" to "grey"...both correct.  We in America have terrible pronunciation for several words including aluminum and jaguar.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 02, 2012, 03:45:38 AM
We in America have terrible pronunciation for several words including aluminum and jaguar.

Indeed, we even have a President who likes to sing the praises of Navy Corpse Man Christian Bouchard...   :o
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: nateo on June 02, 2012, 12:50:09 PM
We in America have terrible pronunciation for several words including aluminum and jaguar.

The "Aluminum / Aluminium" thing is a remnant from early American history. I don't have the dates exactly, but aluminum was discovered around colonial times. It was called "aluminum." The US became independent, then the British Royal Society decided to go through their element names and standardize the ending. Aluminum was just one of the elements that was changed from a "um" to "ium" ending. Since Americans no longer cared about the Royal Society, we kept our spelling and pronunciation the same.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 02, 2012, 04:16:15 PM
Since Americans no longer cared about the Royal Society, we kept our spelling and pronunciation the same.

Yes, it never made it on to the schedule of things to be changed.
(British pronunciation: "shed yull")
(American pronunciation: "honey do list")
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: theoman on June 02, 2012, 07:41:54 PM
I've heard both DOO-vƏl...

That's pretty accurate, but if you want to be picky, the "OO" is a sound that isn't in the English language. The best way I can think to describe it is it's somewhere between "UH" and "OO" but focused just behind the teeth.
[/quote]

Like the french tu?
[/quote]

Yeah, close enough anyway. The OO sound does exist, like in Hoegaarden. No, it doesn't sound like Santa Claus landing in a vegetable patch. While I'm at it, the guttural "g" that's used in English, French or German isn't used in Flemish. The Dutch pronounce it like they're trying to hack up a wad of phlegm, while in Flemish it sounds more like you're trying to expel a hairball.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 02, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Riddle me this theoman...  Gueuze?
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: theoman on June 02, 2012, 07:56:23 PM
Riddle me this theoman...  Gueuze?
Aw, snap. Ya got me. Of course, the explanation is that it's not a word of Dutch origin.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 02, 2012, 09:47:07 PM
Riddle me this theoman...  Gueuze?
Aw, snap. Ya got me. Of course, the explanation is that it's not a word of Dutch origin.

Not trying for a gotcha, truly interested in knowing the correct pronunciation.  I know the beer,  I'd to be able to call it something besides "yum!"
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: erockrph on June 03, 2012, 12:31:33 AM
Riddle me this theoman...  Gueuze?
Aw, snap. Ya got me. Of course, the explanation is that it's not a word of Dutch origin.

Not trying for a gotcha, truly interested in knowing the correct pronunciation.  I know the beer,  I'd to be able to call it something besides "yum!"

Yeah, I've heard it called "Gays" and "Jews". Frankly, I could care less what it's orientation and heritage are, it's just as tasty regardless.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 03, 2012, 12:44:09 AM
I've read that the closest sounding word in English is cursor.  How you get that from gueuze beats the heck out of me.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: nateo on June 03, 2012, 12:56:48 AM
I've read that the closest sounding word in English is cursor.  How you get that from gueuze beats the heck out of me.

gyorzuh? kinda like how the German word for king (koenig) sounds like like "kernig."
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: garc_mall on June 03, 2012, 01:06:25 AM
I've read that the closest sounding word in English is cursor.  How you get that from gueuze beats the heck out of me.

I have heard that its pronounced sort of like Gerzer, but with the g being more of a glottal stop, and the er's with not so much r...

This Guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y7tuyHAhjA) Pronounces it like I was told is correct. Its also a decent show in general.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: theoman on June 03, 2012, 08:18:09 AM
Riddle me this theoman...  Gueuze?
Aw, snap. Ya got me. Of course, the explanation is that it's not a word of Dutch origin.

Not trying for a gotcha, truly interested in knowing the correct pronunciation.  I know the beer,  I'd to be able to call it something besides "yum!"

Well, it turns out it's not exactly a gotcha. I had to ask my wife about this one. I pronounce it in a Frenchy sort of way, with the hard "g" and without the "eh" at the end and nobody bothered to correct me, so I assumed it was right. Well, it is, sorta. I guess it's enough of a Brussels word and everybody is confused enough that it doesn't really matter how it's pronounced, as long as there's effort not to make the vowel sound like "oo." Again, it's "u" thing. The guy in the video above makes a reasonable effort on the vowel, but he uses the hard "g" with the "eh" at the end, sort of combining the Flemish and French. I suppose that's fine as well, but I've never heard it pronounced like that before. My wife pronounces it like a true Flemish person, with the hairball "g" and the short "eh" at the end.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: ccfoo242 on June 03, 2012, 03:31:59 PM
Well, according to this guy:
(http://bloody-disgusting.com/photosizer/upload/rickmoranis040709.jpg)

It's pronounces gOzer the gOzarian! and he said of this beer style "Gozer the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

THAT's a beer I would drink!
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 03, 2012, 03:34:25 PM
Riddle me this theoman...  Gueuze?
Aw, snap. Ya got me. Of course, the explanation is that it's not a word of Dutch origin.

Not trying for a gotcha, truly interested in knowing the correct pronunciation.  I know the beer,  I'd to be able to call it something besides "yum!"
I have heard that pronounced about 4 to 5 ways in Belgium, pronounced by Belgians.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: revolutionisbrewing on June 07, 2012, 03:38:04 AM
I'm so glad this is being brought to light.  After 6 years of Latin, hearing Ply-nee is like nails on a chalkboard.  I guess I had too good a teacher.

Say it with me....Plih-nee...Plih-nee...tell your friends...

Still my favorite beer.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 07, 2012, 04:35:08 AM
I'm so glad this is being brought to light.  After 6 years of Latin, hearing Ply-nee is like nails on a chalkboard.  I guess I had too good a teacher.

Say it with me....Plih-nee...Plih-nee...tell your friends...

Still my favorite beer.

+1 to nails on a blackboard.

Ply-nee...   :o

It's better to be silent...  ...then to speak and remove all doubt.

Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: ccfoo242 on June 07, 2012, 12:35:46 PM
It's better to be silent...  ...then than to speak and remove all doubt.

If we're going to be pedantic then let's get it right!  :P
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: a10t2 on June 07, 2012, 01:50:02 PM
And Vesuvius erupted on August 24th, which just happens to be my birthday.
In whose calendar?  ;)
With a bit of basic research you can figure that out for yourself.

Not unless I have a reference for Joe's birthday as an absolute date.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: morticaixavier on June 07, 2012, 03:13:10 PM
It's better to be silent...  ...then than to speak and remove all doubt.

If we're going to be pedantic then let's get it right!  :P

no, he meant sequentially, first be silent, then speak and remove all doubt.  ;D
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: Joe Sr. on June 07, 2012, 03:57:34 PM
And Vesuvius erupted on August 24th, which just happens to be my birthday.
In whose calendar?  ;)
With a bit of basic research you can figure that out for yourself.

Not unless I have a reference for Joe's birthday as an absolute date.

Would you accept a long-form birth certificate?

But seriously, 8/24 is the date that I've always read going back to the mid-70s so my first reference was probably the World Book Encyclopedia.  It appears to be the standard date associated with the eruption that buried Pompei.

I certainly wasn't born in 79 AD, though, so I can't tell you for certain that it's accurate.  If I was, I'd tell you how Pliny pronounced his own name.
Title: Re: Just sayin
Post by: punatic on June 07, 2012, 04:53:10 PM
Speaking of sequential...   One thousand eight hundred four years and three days later Krakatoa (Krakatau for the pedantic ones in the group) made the "loudest sound ever heard."

Neither Pliny witnessed this event though.

It is heartening that some get my play with words and sayings.  My 12-year-old son is getting good at it, but that comes with lots of sighing and eye-rolling.   ::)