Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: gmac on June 03, 2012, 01:34:30 AM

Title: WLP670
Post by: gmac on June 03, 2012, 01:34:30 AM
I'm thinking about giving this yeast a try.  I really like making saisons and I have had great results with Wyeast 3711 French Saison.  I like how it finishes nice and dry and the flavour it gives.  I've never used the Dupont strain or any other strain.

But, I'm really intrigued by WLP670 for some reason.  I have no experience with Brett (I assume there is no Brett in 3711).  I know the basics (use different plastics, ferment in glass etc.) but I am a bit worried about introducing Brett.  I'm not really sure what I'm asking but if you've got any comments/recipe tips for using the 670, can you please pass them along.  For example, since the Brett eats more sugars than Sach, do I need to substitute sugar to get the beer nice and dry or will an all malt version end dry because of the Brett.

Please give me your thoughts on this yeast and given that I love 3711, do you think I'll be happy with this one?
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: summy on June 03, 2012, 12:51:50 PM
I used it for a"farmhouse ale", recipe was 2-row and red wheat from Valley Malts up in Maine, along with some aromatic.  For hops I used citra and saaz.  Also added coriander and bitter orange peel.  I mashed pretty low @ 147°.  I was aiming for a tropical fruity saison style beer and thats pretty much what I got.  I did leave it on the yeast for about 2 months.  If I'd have to say, the most noticeable thing from the brett is the tropical fruitiness, not necessarily alot of funk.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: rbowers on June 03, 2012, 02:47:11 PM
I used this strain in my rosemary rye saison and the results were interesting.  I contacted white labs regarding ferment temps and they told me the strain loves higher temps 80+F.  I got a little carried away with this and due to some equipment malfunction ended up @ 92F.  Not sure what this did to the yeast but it is pretty funky stuff, more than I was going for.  Overall I was less than pleased but I think I may try again at more reasonable temps.  The beer is getting better after about four months though, smoother. 
I used star San and a long PBW soak to clean the equipment and haven't had problems with infection of subsequent batches.  I'd still dedicate some cheap pieces of equipment (tubes and such) to Brett beers if you pursue this.  Good luck
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: hoser on June 03, 2012, 03:29:51 PM
The thing to keep in mind with WLP670 is that it is a blend of sacchromyces and brettanomyces.  So, the initial primary ferment will be fairly clean, earthy, malty, and spicy from my experience.  Brett. is a slow fermentor and starts to kick in later.  After 2 weeks most of the yeast character is the saison strain from my experience, with a "clean" Brett. charachter in the background.  If allowed to continue, the Brett. will continue eating all of the fermentables and dry the beer out.  I have used this strain twice.  The first time was a lambic project with some other club members using a turbid mash.  I used the WLP670 strain while others used the traditional lambic fermentation.  I have a nice pellicle on my glass carboy after a seeming normal yeast ferment 9+ months ago.  The second time, I made a farmhouse pale ale and racked to the keg and chilled after about 3 weeks.  Fairly clean ferment character.  I fermented in my basement in the mid to high 60's both times.

As far as recipe and mash formulation, I would think you can avoid any simple sugars.  The Brett. will take the gravity down pretty close to 1.000.  You do want some dextrins in the beer: oats, rye, spelt, wheat, etc. (See the AHA recipe from Chad Yakobson).  I would also mash a little warmer than your typical saison if you are wanting to emphasize the Brett. character, 152-156F.  When you stress Brett. that is where you get the funky flavors.  Also, use some acidulated malt in the mash.  Brett. likes the environment a little more acidic than Sacchromyces.  Anywhere from 1-5%.  If you want to keep the Brett. character to a minimum, just throw it in the fridge in a keg after the Saison yeast has done it's job. The longer Brett. goes, the funkier it gets.

Brett. is a yeast just like Sacchromyces and can be killed just as easy.  The spores can sometimes be a problem. Glass and stainless steel are of no concerns and can be cleaned and santitized as you normally do.  I would keep all of the plastic and rubber stuff seperate, however.

There are a couple other topics on the forum in regards to WLP670.  Good Luck!  Let us know how it goes!
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: gmac on June 03, 2012, 03:50:02 PM
Thanks for the links.  I knew I'd seen some on here.
I think I'll do a 10 gal batch and split it between WY3711 and WLP670.  I'll probably leave the 670 for a couple months and see what it's like.

I don't usually ferment my saisons at higher than usual temps (and maybe they aren't really saisons for that reason but I like them).  Probably 70 degrees or so will be where they sit depending on ambient temps.  I could do them in the garage at ambient temps but they'd fluctuate a bit between daytime and night time temps although they'd get a higher daytime temp. 

I was doing the coriander, orange peel, ginger, pepper thing but the last couple I did were unspiced and I liked them better for a summer sipper.  If this is the first time with this yeast, I will avoid spices in order to get a better taste for the yeast. 
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: hoser on June 03, 2012, 06:11:29 PM
With the WLP670 and WY3711, cooler temps don't seem to affect them as much as other saison yeasts.  70*F should work just fine.  I think splitting a 10 gallon batch is a great idea.
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: summy on June 03, 2012, 08:43:32 PM
Forgot to mention that my beer did finish out at 1.000.  OG was 1.058.   Found it odd getting a7.2%+ beer from a starting gravity that low...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: gmac on June 28, 2012, 12:30:08 PM
Is a starter recommended with this yeast?  Does it change the ratio of Sac:Bret or does it matter?  I'm gonna do this early next week now that I have both yeasts (3711 and 670). The 3711 is a re-pitch and ready to go, just not sure about the 670.
What are your thoughts on underpitching saisons in general?  For some reason I have it in my head that underpitching is ok with saison but I'm not sure why I'm thinking this.

Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: summy on June 28, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
I did make a starter, but then again I always do.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: hoser on June 28, 2012, 01:11:34 PM
I have made a starter the 2 times I have used WLP670 as well, but as JC said, I always make starters.
Title: Re: WLP670
Post by: cheshirecat on June 29, 2012, 04:00:34 PM
Last month I did a split batch Saison with WLP566 and WLP670. After fermentation was done the taste difference was noticeable but not striking. Having just re-tasting earlier this week, after about a month, the difference is REALLY starting to shine through. The WLP670 is just starting to develop that brett funk. Very much look forward to seeing what it tastes like in another month or two.

I did a starter with the 670 as well.