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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: kylekohlmorgen on June 07, 2012, 08:32:01 am

Title: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 07, 2012, 08:32:01 am
I've used ProMash ever since I started AG brewing, but there is NO support and NO updates.

I did a trial of BeerSmith. It was nice, but I'm comfortable with ProMash, AND all my recipes are in ProMash format.

What's a guy to do?
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 07, 2012, 09:05:28 am
Promash does what I need.

There is plenty of talk on the Interwebs that an update is on the way. I think there is a discussion on the Promash web site.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: anday6 on June 07, 2012, 09:45:59 am
I haven't done it myself, but you can import most recipe file types into BeerSmith.
Title: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: denny on June 07, 2012, 10:24:48 am
What kind of update does Promash need?  It does everything I need it to do seamlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: thetooth on June 07, 2012, 10:30:07 am
I finally gave up when BeerSmith 2.0 came out.  Probably won't go back unless a new version really knocks my socks off and offers more than BeerSmith.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: ccfoo242 on June 07, 2012, 11:03:25 am
Not sure how up to date this is:
http://www.beerxml.com/converter.htm

Beersmith will import beerxml files.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: mabrungard on June 07, 2012, 11:08:12 am
Still haven't had a situation that I've needed support or an update with Promash.  It does what I need it to do. 
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 07, 2012, 12:15:16 pm
I have a few complaints:

 - The Help application doesn't work on newer Windows OS. My main concern is that the ProMash application itself won't be able to run on a future OS. I'm not a big software guy, so I don't know if this is plausible.

 - The ingredient and guidelines databases are outdated - I know I can update them by hand, but that's a lot of data entry, especially since it will regularly need updating.

The color swatch is not very accurate. Again, this may be from running on an old OS.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: mabrungard on June 07, 2012, 01:21:32 pm
Ah...I see your point.  I run Promash on XP and Vista with no problems, including the Help component.  I assume you must be referring to Win7?  There could be a problem, but I haven' used 7 yet.  I know with some of my old engineering programs, there is a Compatability tab available if I right-click the program icon on the desktop.  I don't see that with my Promash icon.

There is at least one set of updated databases for grain and hops floating around on the web.  I don't know where to point you for them.  I don't know if someone has posted an updated style database.  But it would only take minutes to update the existing database since there are not that many changes or new styles.

The color swatch is a joke.  There are far too many variables involved in going from the estimated SRM value to the color you see on your screen.  Screens and adapters vary.
You may be better off in most cases with taking the calculated SRM value and seeing what that color is using the BJCP color swatches. 
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: denny on June 07, 2012, 01:31:13 pm
You can d/l a \help file compatibility program.  Took me about 3 min. to d/l and install.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: jjflash on June 07, 2012, 09:45:47 pm
I have used ProMash for many years and thought it was the greatest software for homebrewers... and for many years it was the absolute best.  Last year I decided to try BeerSmith after my brew buddies kept telling me how much they liked it.  Now as they say its hard to teach an old dog new tricks - I was very comfortable with ProMash and resistent to try, let alone change brewing software.  However, after struggling thru the learning curve of BeerSmith, I find it to be very, very good.  I still have both softwares on my computers and I find I have switched entirely over to BeerSmith. ProMash was the Volkswagen of beer software, very easy to use with instant good results. Still nothing wrong with it, works very well.  BeerSmith is more like the Cadillac, its got all the cool tools and cool gadgets. It helps to be at least 3/4 nerd or a rocket scientist to utilize all its capabilities. 
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: Alewyfe on June 07, 2012, 10:53:40 pm
As a forever Mac user, I remember going into a blue funk panic when Darryl Richmann stopped supporting the Brewer's Planner. Wow, what a long way we've come. Armchair brewing has never been more fun, nor brew day more organized and predictable. Beersmith is simply the Bees knees. Every update has been loaded with lots of useful new features and Brad Smith is simply one of the two most responsive software authors ever.

Beersmith is without a doubt my favorite piece of brewing equipment and has paid the highest return on investment.

With Beersmith and Bru'n Water I CAN CONQUER THE WORLD!!!!!!!! aaaargh
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: gandelf on June 08, 2012, 08:25:22 pm
What kind of update does Promash need?  It does everything I need it to do seamlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I agree; although current ingredients libraries would be well received. This comes from a guy who not only does not have an IPad/Phone; my phone doesn't even  have a keyboard. Ha ha ha
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: narvin on June 09, 2012, 08:01:39 am
I don't want to sound like my dad (his hatred of power windows on cars is legendary), but more features and gadgets often means you have less control.  ProMash does the calculations I need without doing stuff that I don't need (and often don't trust).  I hate seeing things like FG calculations that people trust blindly just because the software said so.  It's a tool, no more, no less.
Title: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: denny on June 09, 2012, 08:44:40 am
I don't want to sound like my dad (his hatred of power windows on cars is legendary), but more features and gadgets often means you have less control.  ProMash does the calculations I need without doing stuff that I don't need (and often don't trust).  I hate seeing things like FG calculations that people trust blindly just because the software said so.  It's a tool, no more, no less.

Hear, hear!  I don't know how many people have told me that they do multiple batch sparges because Beersmith tells them to.  It's a tool, it's NOT brewing instructions!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: Alewyfe on June 09, 2012, 10:17:34 am
I don't want to sound like my dad (his hatred of power windows on cars is legendary), but more features and gadgets often means you have less control.  ProMash does the calculations I need without doing stuff that I don't need (and often don't trust).  I hate seeing things like FG calculations that people trust blindly just because the software said so.  It's a tool, no more, no less.

Hear, hear!  I don't know how many people have told me that they do multiple batch sparges because Beersmith tells them to.  It's a tool, it's NOT brewing instructions!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 Without understanding how something works, anything bigger, better and faster will just help you fail quicker.
Tools are actually dangerous in the hands of people who don't know how to use them.  ~Lefty
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: lazydog79 on June 25, 2012, 12:26:04 pm
Beersmith is without a doubt my favorite piece of brewing equipment and has paid the highest return on investment.

With Beersmith and Bru'n Water I CAN CONQUER THE WORLD!!!!!!!! aaaargh

Here, Here!  as some one who is mathematically impaired and has somehow gone my entire academic carreer without taking a Chemistry class, I need the tools.  I've resisted upgrading to BeerSmith 2.0 mainly just because I am cheap.  I used to hack my way through water adjustments (with hack results!) but have recently started using Bru'n Water (which rocks, Martin!).  I am glad there are smart people in the world to figure this crap out for me  :P
Title: Re: Give Up on ProMash??
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 26, 2012, 08:49:00 am
I don't want to sound like my dad (his hatred of power windows on cars is legendary), but more features and gadgets often means you have less control.  ProMash does the calculations I need without doing stuff that I don't need (and often don't trust).  I hate seeing things like FG calculations that people trust blindly just because the software said so.  It's a tool, no more, no less.

I've downloaded/trialed other brewing programs (and even made my own spreadsheets) to test the accuracy of some of the calculations. I'm like you - I don't trust the machine unless I can see the moving parts.

I'm probably going to stick with ProMash until (like any other tool in my brewery) I feel its hampering my progress/success as a brewer.

I'll put the $30 towards something else for the brewery...
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 28, 2012, 09:56:27 pm
So is there a problem with windows 7 and promash? I need a new computer and if I'm going to have to have trouble, I will op for something different.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: Wesbrau on June 28, 2012, 11:19:15 pm
I'm running Promash on Windows 7.  No trouble yet.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: denny on June 29, 2012, 10:11:30 am
I've been running Promash on Win 7 for over a year and a half.  No problems.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: bo on June 29, 2012, 10:32:06 am
Me too.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: macbrews on June 29, 2012, 10:50:02 am
What kind of update does Promash need?  It does everything I need it to do seamlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It would be nice if it was Mac OS compatible for those of us that would like to use it without running an emulator.

Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: narvin on June 29, 2012, 11:05:10 am
What kind of update does Promash need?  It does everything I need it to do seamlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It would be nice if it was Mac OS compatible for those of us that would like to use it without running an emulator.

Wine Is Not an Emulator. 

(Seriously, that's what WINE stands for.  Unix humor, I know.)
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: pyrite on June 29, 2012, 11:33:00 am
What kind of update does Promash need?  It does everything I need it to do seamlessly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Not to nitpick, and I know that not everything is perfect. But promash could be updated with the most current hop varieties.  I know the alpha acids could be entered manually, but the program would be a luxury to have if the newer hop varieties were already in the program.

I know this may be complicated but I would some how like to see an app. or tool for inserting hop beta acids as a way to give more recipe description to those hoppier beers. Just something that could give more detail to a beers formulation. 
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: madrivervt on October 15, 2012, 07:02:56 am
I’m very frustrated with Promash.  Running on Windows 2010.  I cannot figure out how to update the “Actual FG” on a brewing session. Everything is trial and error.  The help function does not work.  (the "fix" is non-existent) I have gotten no response from my inquiry to tech support.  I'm feeling like I wasted money I could have spent on equipment. 
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: weithman5 on October 15, 2012, 07:23:16 am
i had been doing calcs myself until january. i had tried multiple trials of different software.  i settled on ibrewmaster for my iphone. i like it because it allows me to play with recipes on the fly.  i can also share when i run in to other brewers. it does most of what i would want and more.  i still idiot check the numbers.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: oly on October 15, 2012, 07:59:33 am
I cannot figure out how to update the “Actual FG” on a brewing session. 

In your brewing session, open the "fermentation" tab. Enter your measured final gravity there, and it will show up as "actual FG" in your session window.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: dcbc on October 15, 2012, 01:28:46 pm
I refuse to get a thermometer because the rule of thumb hasn't let me down yet.  ;)


/I kid. I kid.  Came late to the software party a few years back.  Picked Beersmith.  Love it even though the 2.0 layout took some getting used to.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: tcanova on October 15, 2012, 01:37:51 pm
i had been doing calcs myself until january. i had tried multiple trials of different software.  i settled on ibrewmaster for my iphone. i like it because it allows me to play with recipes on the fly.  i can also share when i run in to other brewers. it does most of what i would want and more.  i still idiot check the numbers.

I really like iBrewmaster as well.  I started with ProMash years ago but iBrewmaster does everything I need plus I can have it running during my brew day on my iPad.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: The Professor on October 15, 2012, 03:37:23 pm
What kind of update does Promash need?  It does everything I need it to do seamlessly.

It would be nice if it was Mac OS compatible for those of us that would like to use it without running an emulator.

Get BeerAlchemy...pretty much as good as ProMash, but with a better organized and much more intuitive  GUI than just about any brew software. 
And it's Mac native software (Mac only, actually)
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: ullarsskald1989 on April 20, 2014, 07:59:27 pm
Oooold thread I know, but I still use Promash, runs on Win 98, XP and 7 okay.  I do not mind manually updating the databases as they as customized to use the ingredients my wife and I use to brew.

Sometimes use SUDS, too.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 20, 2014, 08:29:08 pm
Oooold thread I know, but I still use Promash, runs on Win 98, XP and 7 okay.  I do not mind manually updating the databases as they as customized to use the ingredients my wife and I use to brew.

Sometimes use SUDS, too.
I used Suds a long time ago, replaced with Promash and see no reason to change.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: narvin on April 20, 2014, 09:00:12 pm
You should update your database even with Beersmith/BeerAlchemy/BeerBananas/etc.  Hops AA% vary by year and farm.  Grain color and extract vary not only by brand but per lot... you can check countrymalt.com to get an actual lot analysis for you sack. 

Brewing software isn't magic and too many people don't understand what it's doing for their system/process/ingredients and end up way off the mark.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 20, 2014, 09:09:04 pm
You should update your database even with Beersmith/BeerAlchemy/BeerBananas/etc.  Hops AA% vary by year and farm.  Grain color and extract vary not only by brand but per lot... you can check countrymalt.com to get an actual lot analysis for you sack. 

Brewing software isn't magic and too many people don't understand what it's doing for their system/process/ingredients and end up way off the mark.
+1. Shiny bells and whistles often make people think it is "better".
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: Pi on May 01, 2014, 07:56:03 am
I have been very satisfied with Promash. And as stated earlier, it's only a tool. I am always tweaking things, and it did take some time to get some of the defaults (efficiency, thermal mass, grain abrorption etc) dialed in.
There are 2 things i would like to see: if they could provide database update(s) for grain and hops; and maybe enhance the decoction dialog box to do multiple decoctions like Kai's (see http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing#Hochkurz_Double_Decoction)
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: michaeltrego on May 01, 2014, 09:17:14 am
.... and maybe enhance the decoction dialog box to do multiple decoctions...

The mash designer lets you specify any number of decoction/infusion steps....are you talking about something different?

I haven't found a reason to move off of ProMash.  It even runs fine on my Linux laptop through the Wine emulator.
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: Pi on May 01, 2014, 10:28:16 am
I guess i am talking about the graph, cant manipulate the decoction steps
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: michaeltrego on May 01, 2014, 02:53:03 pm
I guess i am talking about the graph, cant manipulate the decoction steps

The graph is just a picture of the steps that you have defined in the mash schedule/designer.  The steps can be anything you want them to be.  Here is an example of this weekend's Oktobfest:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwtFvvJ43Z3fZ2ZpQnpfU1RkaUE (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwtFvvJ43Z3fZ2ZpQnpfU1RkaUE)
Title: Re: GIve Up on ProMash??
Post by: chinaski on May 02, 2014, 09:25:21 am
I'm cheap and also like to see and understand the workings of stuff.  So I've hydridized a few of the spreadsheets that are out there to batch sparge on my system and it does what I need.  Its endlessly changeable, I can input whatever changes to hops, malts, sugars, etc that I want.  Not for everyone I understand but I like it.