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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: timmyr on July 08, 2012, 03:11:01 PM

Title: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 08, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
It was just too damn hot to brew this weekend, so I have 5-days to tinker with my recipe.  I am planning an American-hopped Saison.  I have two White Labs yeasts for a split ferment in big buckets and plan to let them run ambient in my basement which is about 70F.  Fermenters will start covered loosly with lid or cheese cloth.

OG: 1.064 ; IBUs ~30 (Rager in BeerSmith)

76% Pilsner
10% Sugar (table-sugar or maybe belgian clear syrup added 3-days into ferment)
6% Munich II
6% White Wheat
2% Caramunich II

7g Summit FWH
7g Magnum Boil 60 min

28g each
Citra, Amarillo, Galaxy, Summit just after flame-out (followed by 15 min hot recirc via pump, 15 min settle)

2 oz of whole-leaf Centennial in hop-back



Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: troybinso on July 08, 2012, 03:46:22 PM
Sounds great. What are the two yeasts you plan on using?
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 08, 2012, 03:53:51 PM
Sounds great. What are the two yeasts you plan on using?

WLP566 Belgian Saison II & WLP670 American Farmhouse.  I've never used either.  I might even wash the Saison II and re-pitch it into a bigger Belgian batch if I can catch it in time.

I've done something similar 2X previous to this.  Once on a American-hopped Tripel based on Captain Lawrence Extra Gold and then recently I brewed a Belgo-American Pale with WLP530 split between a bucket and carboy.

I'll probably dry-hop it too, but I am not committed to that just yet.  I want to taste it first.  I like how WLP530 behaves in a bucket with no blow-off so I bought two new 6.9 gallon buckets from Northern Brewer for my Belgian trials.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: erockrph on July 08, 2012, 04:38:14 PM
Out of curiosity, where did you get your Galaxy? Is it from this year's harvest? I've been searching around lately and haven't had much luck finding any online.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: euge on July 08, 2012, 05:23:40 PM
Seems like a lot of hops on the backend there. Is it meant to have a lot of hop aroma characteristics?
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 10, 2012, 12:47:49 AM
Out of curiosity, where did you get your Galaxy? Is it from this year's harvest? I've been searching around lately and haven't had much luck finding any online.

Northern Brewer had 'em.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 10, 2012, 12:50:39 AM
Seems like a lot of hops on the backend there. Is it meant to have a lot of hop aroma characteristics?

Yup...spot-on.  I was looking to get some solid citrus/tropical/fruity flavors to punctuate the finish of an American-Hopped Saison.

I did this with a Belgian Pale and really liked everything about it, except for a little bit of a catty finish.  Despite that, the nose on it is awesome with Belgian Yeast esters alongside the hops.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on July 10, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
I'll never argue a hoppy saison - I love them! If you're really interested in seeing the fine differences in the two yeasts, a little less flavor/aroma hops will allow the subtleties to shine through.

Please report back on your findings. I've been wanting to use WLP670 for awhile (have to request it from my LHBS).

As for the sugar - add it in during the boil so its split evenly between the two batches.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 10, 2012, 09:38:11 PM
I'll never argue a hoppy saison - I love them! If you're really interested in seeing the fine differences in the two yeasts, a little less flavor/aroma hops will allow the subtleties to shine through.

Please report back on your findings. I've been wanting to use WLP670 for awhile (have to request it from my LHBS).

As for the sugar - add it in during the boil so its split evenly between the two batches.

I've looked at the recipe again and think you are right.  In the flame-out I've dropped the Amarillo and cut the Citra to 14 g.

7g Summit FWH
7g Magnum Boil 60 min

Flameout followed by 15 min hot recirc via pump, 15 min settle
  28g Galaxy
  28g Summit
  14g Citra

Also (and important to note if I forgot) it is an 11 gal batch.  Planning yeast starters tomorrow.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 10, 2012, 09:55:41 PM
Others may disagree, but I don't believe you gain anything flavor-wise from clear Belgian candi syrup.  I'd just go with table sugar.

The darker syrups, on the other hand, definitely have a flavor impact.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 12, 2012, 02:45:11 AM
Others may disagree, but I don't believe you gain anything flavor-wise from clear Belgian candi syrup.  I'd just go with table sugar.

The darker syrups, on the other hand, definitely have a flavor impact.

I think I agree but I have some I need to use up.  It's super-convenient to dump into fermenters after they've been going for a while.  That's the only reason I am using it right now.  I think I was at the sugar seminar at NHC in '09 and tasted tripels with different sugars and did taste a difference, but now am unsure if it was a yeast comparison or sugar comparison.  I should just split a batch of Belgian Pale and compare for myself.

In any case, thanks....good advice I think.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 14, 2012, 05:20:35 PM
Sitting tight at 73-75F in my basement bathroom for the open ferment.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n201/lowfredflyer/ee3157b8.jpg)

Ended up with a flame-out addition of 28g Galaxy, 28g Citra, 14g Summit in a 12 gal batch.

Cheers.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: kraftwerk on July 14, 2012, 07:30:00 PM
Looks great! You should consider dry hopping with Citra and/or Amarillo just to give the nose a little extra pop. I've not experimented with open fermentation like that. Does it seem to work well?

Also WLP 670 is a fantastic yeast blend! I'm tasting my Golden Lemongrass Farmhouse right now (same yeast) and it's blowing my mind!
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 14, 2012, 09:10:43 PM
Looks great! You should consider dry hopping with Citra and/or Amarillo just to give the nose a little extra pop. I've not experimented with open fermentation like that. Does it seem to work well?

Also WLP 670 is a fantastic yeast blend! I'm tasting my Golden Lemongrass Farmhouse right now (same yeast) and it's blowing my mind!

I am planning to dry-hop, no decisions yet on with what.  As for the ferment being open, it's my first full shot at it.  I've left fermenters with loose lid on in past and loved the results.  I am a little worried about infection.  I did not uncover them until there was a thick krausen on top.  Until that point I just loosely covered with the bucket lid.  I've experimented with a Belgian Pale and was happy with the results.  As soon as the krausen starts to fall, I'll put lids on loose.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: saintpierre on July 14, 2012, 10:07:52 PM
Looks good, I used the WLP670 last year.  It takes a wicked long time to develop the sour character (a couple months for my saison) as promised in the yeast description.  Are you planning to let it sour?
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 15, 2012, 12:06:02 AM
Looks good, I used the WLP670 last year.  It takes a wicked long time to develop the sour character (a couple months for my saison) as promised in the yeast description.  Are you planning to let it sour?

My plan really only goes through initial fermentation.  Did you age it in a standard carboy?  I am interested in comparing the two yeast strains and seeing if I can get some tropical fruit from Citra & Galaxy into the beer.

 I love some sour....maybe I'll split the secondary into a small carboy and 3-gal keg.  Thanks!
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: saintpierre on July 15, 2012, 03:40:14 AM
My plan really only goes through initial fermentation.  Did you age it in a standard carboy?  I am interested in comparing the two yeast strains and seeing if I can get some tropical fruit from Citra & Galaxy into the beer.

 I love some sour....maybe I'll split the secondary into a small carboy and 3-gal keg.  Thanks!
Yes, I fermented in a 6.5gal carboy for 4 weeks and aged in 5gal carboy.  Both were glass.  Sounds like a fun experiment.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 15, 2012, 02:02:06 PM
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/open-baby-341491/ (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/open-baby-341491/)

Link to updated photos....the American Farmhouse is cool to watch.
Title: Re: American Saison
Post by: timmyr on July 21, 2012, 04:55:16 PM
8 days after pitch:

Saison II: 1.004
American Farmhouse 1.002