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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: beardog on November 08, 2009, 07:58:10 AM

Title: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: beardog on November 08, 2009, 07:58:10 AM
Does anyone have any numbers for water that would go with with an English Nut Brown Ale?
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: smurfe on November 08, 2009, 02:17:39 PM
I looked it up and Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale is brewed in Yorkshire England which is the Burton Area. I'd say if you Burtonize your water you ought to be pretty close.

Calcium (ppm):
294

Sulfates (ppm):
800

Magnesium (ppm):
24

Sodium (ppm):
24

Chloride (ppm):
36

Carbonates (ppm):
200

Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: beardog on November 08, 2009, 05:35:18 PM
Thanks, that's what I was shooting for.
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: beardog on November 09, 2009, 12:55:23 AM
So, after thinking about it, 800 ppm SO4 seems way high to me.  Do people actually get good results with this much SO4?  I measured out 20 grams of gypsum, and its like 2 tablespoons worth.  I know thats what Burton water is like, but it seems excessive to me.  It kinda scares me to be honest  ;)
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: a10t2 on November 10, 2009, 10:23:53 PM
I don't think I would ever use nearly that much. Certainly in a nut brown I don't think you'll need much sulfate. Even in something like an IIPA I don't think there's any benefit above ~300 ppm.
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: blatz on November 10, 2009, 10:28:58 PM
I don't think I would ever use nearly that much. Certainly in a nut brown I don't think you'll need much sulfate. Even in something like an IIPA I don't think there's any benefit above ~300 ppm.

+1, that is unless you like getting Rhea...

FWIW, I think matching locale water profiles is not worthwhile, as a lot of breweries adjust their water, not to mention the fact that profiles change over time. 

Just use Palmer's sheet, get your RA in line with your SRM target, and your sulfate/chloride ratio right for malty/bitter and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: ryan6458 on November 11, 2009, 07:03:03 AM
FWIW, I think matching locale water profiles is not worthwhile, as a lot of breweries adjust their water, not to mention the fact that profiles change over time. 

Just use Palmer's sheet, get your RA in line with your SRM target, and your sulfate/chloride ratio right for malty/bitter and you should be fine.

+1. FWIW, this is the profile I use for my Brown ales;

Calcium(Ca):          65.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg):         7.0 ppm
Sodium(Na):           23.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4):         24.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl):         50.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3):   167.0 ppm
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: beardog on November 12, 2009, 05:30:49 AM
Thanks for the advice.  My numbers ended up being high, as I brewed before I got a response.  Hopefully it will turn out alright.  I may add a little CaCl to balance out the sulfate.
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: crabber on November 16, 2009, 01:25:12 AM
FWIW, I think matching locale water profiles is not worthwhile, as a lot of breweries adjust their water, not to mention the fact that profiles change over time. 

Just use Palmer's sheet, get your RA in line with your SRM target, and your sulfate/chloride ratio right for malty/bitter and you should be fine.

Yeah, just try plugging in some famous brewing cities' water profiles into the RA spreadsheet.  Sometimes the suggested beer color for the resulting RA isn't even close to that city's trademark style. It's one of those counterintuitive homebrewing things, like how yeast comes in "ready to pitch" pouches that require a starter.
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: dgriff on November 21, 2009, 05:52:06 PM
This is what I use for my English Browns, more specifically So. english Brown

Calcium (Ca)= 105.0
Magnesium (Mg)= 17.0
Sodium (Na)= 23.0
Sulfate (SO4)= 66.0
Chloride (C1)= 30.0
Bicarbonate (HC03)= 153.0
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: dean on January 18, 2010, 09:08:21 PM
Is adding distilled water the only way to lower sulfates?  I haven't heard about my water report yet but I'm guessing I have high sulfates based on what my beers have been tasting like.  I just hope my sodium isn't up there too.  If either or both are high I'll have to buy distilled water won't I?   :(
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on January 18, 2010, 09:11:51 PM
Is adding distilled water the only way to lower sulfates? 

Yes.
The only way to lower any salts in your water is to delude it with Distiled or RO water.
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: dean on January 18, 2010, 09:16:24 PM
Okay, thanks.  Does JP's spreadsheet 2.5 work using distilled water additions?  I thought I saw a section in it as an option.  Maybe I'll get lucky and its something else... or at least maybe not high sodium. 
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on January 19, 2010, 08:13:13 PM
I think JP spread sheet has a section where you can put how much Distiled water you want to use.

I started using ezWaterCalculator that is based in JP data:
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

Here is original post on HBT forum with video how to use it:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/water-modification-videos-ths-spreadsheet-144461/
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: dean on January 19, 2010, 08:15:38 PM
Thanks I'll check them out.  :)
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: coypoo on January 19, 2010, 09:18:23 PM
This is what I use for my English Browns, more specifically So. english Brown

Calcium (Ca)= 105.0
Magnesium (Mg)= 17.0
Sodium (Na)= 23.0
Sulfate (SO4)= 66.0
Chloride (C1)= 30.0
Bicarbonate (HC03)= 153.0

for a brown ale wouldnt you want the cl:s04 to be the other way around?
Title: Re: Nut Brown Water Profile
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 19, 2010, 09:46:22 PM
I looked it up and Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale is brewed in Yorkshire England which is the Burton Area. I'd say if you Burtonize your water you ought to be pretty close.

You are about 90 miles off on your location.  Burton-on-Trent is in Stratfordshire.  Tadcaster is in North Yorkshire.

The waters will be considerably different.