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Other than Brewing => All Things Food => Topic started by: gmac on November 07, 2012, 02:19:36 PM

Title: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 07, 2012, 02:19:36 PM
We're having a party this weekend and I'm gonna do a brisket on the egg.  But, I think I'm gonna have to do two for the number of people that are expected so I'm asking.  Does the final cooking time matter if you do two versus one?  I know a single 20 lb piece of meat would take much longer than a 10 lb piece but in this case, it's 2 - 10 lbs pieces laid side by side.  My thoughts are that it wouldn't matter but does anyone have experience to the contrary?

My plan is to put them on at 11 pm Friday at 225-250 and plan for about an hour per lb.  That gives me a lot of extra time in case I need more plus time to rest.  I've heard everything from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours per lb depending on the source but I've never done this much meat at once before.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 07, 2012, 02:41:05 PM
I think you'll be fine with two briskets on the egg. They'll shrink a bit so if you have to overlap them initially that certainly won't be a problem. Fat-side down of course and when you hit the stall I'd foil them- which will save you at least three hours. You can even remove them once foiled and finish in the oven if you have the space there. Then wrap in towels and rest in a cooler until the internal temp drops to about 150 or less.

I'd budget up to 1.5 hours per pound @ 250 if you don't foil. Good-luck and don't forget to take some pics so we all can enjoy...
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 07, 2012, 04:22:37 PM
Tell me more about the "stall" and foiling please.
I was going to go until the Thermapen said 185, pull them off and remove the points for burnt ends and then foil+towel wrap them and into the cooler to rest for however long I had to spare (figured a couple hours). 

Do you sauce your brisket or leave it unsauced?  I've had both and I'm not sure what to do.  I have sauce so I may do both.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 07, 2012, 05:03:53 PM
Sauce on the side. Always.

When your briskets hit 155F they will "stall" and will not raise another degree for many hours until enough moisture has evaporated off; then they will start to slowly rise to target temp which is between 190-210F. At 190 I start testing for tenderness: if the temp probe slides into the flat like butter it is done. The point will be done long before the flat.

The evaporation actually cools the brisket down inside the cooker and causes the stall. So at 155F wrap your briskets in a double layer of foil. This will keep the moisture inside and the brisket will gently steam and braise in it's own fat. The interior temp will rise consistently. This will save you hours and hours of cooking time. There will be plenty of bark and smoke flavor. You can still do burnt ends once the rest is over. I like my burnt ends done with sauce.

So instead of a 10-12 hour cook you are done in six most likely. Saves time and fuel. I like to use a wired probe thermometer so monitoring can be done without opening the lid. Remember- each brisket is like a child- they all behave differently! ;)
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 07, 2012, 11:09:46 PM
I haven't found that doing multiple pork shoulders or chuck roasts adds to the cook time.

Plus, you get more meat for the investment of your time.

When you foil the brisket, you can also add some apple juice inside the foil.  This helps push through the stall, also.

I don't foil most times, but I have and it works well.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 08, 2012, 12:24:41 AM
Thanks guys
Anyone got a good rub recipe for brisket?  I always just make it up as I go for pulled pork but if you have one, let me know.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 08, 2012, 12:50:08 AM
Thanks guys
Anyone got a good rub recipe for brisket?  I always just make it up as I go for pulled pork but if you have one, let me know.

I think salt and pepper are all you need for brisket. Coarse pepper fairly heavy.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 08, 2012, 01:08:41 AM
Thanks guys
Anyone got a good rub recipe for brisket?  I always just make it up as I go for pulled pork but if you have one, let me know.

I think salt and pepper are all you need for brisket. Coarse pepper fairly heavy.

No brown sugar? No paprika?  Cayenne?  Garlic powder?

I use the same basic rub for pork and beef. I also start with a layer of yellow mustard.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 08, 2012, 01:12:49 AM
I use a rub of kosher salt, black pepper, little brown sugar, garlic powder, onion powder.  I also make a marinade of water, beef base and beef broth.  I also inject the marinade into the beef and let it set overnight.  I just recently started using a marinade and injecting the beef and I'm real happy w/ the results.  I also cook my briskets in aluminum pans, but not sure if you have room in your BGE for two briskets and aluminum pans.  The pans hold the juice w/out limiting the smoke penetration and you have some great au jus.

As a side not, the last time I did a brisket I used Myron Mixon's hot and fast method which you smoke @ 300 for about 2.5-3 hrs, cover the pan w/ aluminum foil and cook for another 1.5-2 hours until the brisket is at 205 degrees.  Then remove from the smoker and wrap w/ a thick blanket and let it sit for about 3-4 hours at room temp.  I took all the juices in the pan, brought then to a simmer in a pan, and poured over the meat as I served it. 

I was skeptical of this method as I normally smoke low and slow, but damn if this wasn't one of the best briskets I've ever made. 
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 08, 2012, 01:19:03 AM
Why the flavor of the beef has to be covered up escapes me. However, everyone has their preferences. And I will have to try Myron Mixon's method. He's probably the best at it.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 08, 2012, 01:24:40 AM
Why the flavor of the beef has to be covered up escapes me. However, everyone has their preferences. And I will have to try Myron Mixon's method. He's probably the best at it.

I agree, and I used to just rub on some salt, pepper, garlic and onion, but after reading Myron's book last year, I started using marinades and injections.  I don't think it covers up the flavor of the beef, but enhances it and you end up w/ some great au jus to serve.  I was always hesitant in trying his hot and fast method and was expecting tough meat, but it was very tender and still had a great smoke flavor.  I still prefer to go low and slow, but will do fast and hot every now and then.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: cardsman1992 on November 08, 2012, 01:26:54 AM
Last time I smoked ribs and brisket, I used the following on the brisket and left covered in refrigerator overnight:

Worcestershire, pepper (heavy), salt, seasoned tenderizer, garlic powder.  Turned out fantastic.  I'd never smoked a brisket before, so I have some learning curve on making the meat moister, but it tasted great.  I mopped it as it cooked with the same mop as my ribs, which was apple cider vinegar, lime, mustard, worcestershire, which I kept warm and mopped occasionally (every 2 hours or so).

I had marinated the pork ribs in the same ingredients I mopped them with, along with a rub of salt, pepper, seasoned tenderizer, cajun seasoning, and garlic.  If I were not using the mop for both pieces of meat, I would have poured the marinade off of the pork ribs, added to it, warmed it up, and mopped with it.  Since I was mopping the brisket too, I made new mop so as to not cross-contaminate.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 08, 2012, 02:27:12 AM
I thought that the brown sugar was important for making a good bark. I like the idea of injecting. My biggest worry is that it will be dry.
My second biggest worry is not having it done on time. Third is spiders.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 08, 2012, 02:42:37 AM
I thought that the brown sugar was important for making a good bark. I like the idea of injecting. My biggest worry is that it will be dry.
My second biggest worry is not having it done on time. Third is spiders.

sugar does help w/ creating a good bark, but you will still get a slight bark on the outside w/ just salt and pepper.  Many great Texas bbq joints use just coarse salt and pepper.  I just put a little sugar in my brisket rub, with much more going in my pork rubs.  I started cooking my briskets in aluminum pans a few years ago and that has really helped create some very moist and tender briskets.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 08, 2012, 02:35:46 PM
I can keep them pretty moist with a generous mop.  I use apple cider vinegar, olive oil, worchestershire, salt, pepper, sometimes spices, and either bourbon or beer.

I mop it on every two hours or so.

Euge - do you flip your brisket?  Or just keep it fat side down?
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 08, 2012, 02:46:01 PM
Fat side down the whole time. With the BGE and the plate-setter the heat comes from the bottom primarily so the fat-cap shields the meat and renders away. I've done it the other way but the meat side gets overcooked even though the fat is supposed to baste the entire thing.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 08, 2012, 02:48:25 PM
I haven't done fat-side down yet.  Do you do the same with pork shoulder?

Most recently I did three chuck roasts (your recommendation awhile back).  They were awesome.  I have a ton left over and frozen.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 08, 2012, 03:08:54 PM
Oh man it's been a while with the shoulder. Probably. Thanks for the compliment- chuck has the best flavor IMO and so readily available. Now I must do one brisket-style... ;)
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 08, 2012, 03:13:40 PM
Oh man it's been a while with the shoulder. Probably. Thanks for the compliment- chuck has the best flavor IMO and so readily available. Now I must do one brisket-style... ;)

I got the chucks on sale, too.  I was going to do a brisket, which I can get un-trimmed for less than the chuck roast usually goes for.  But then there was this sale...  And they were nice fat cuts.

I used a rub from The Spice House called "Brisket of Love."  Lots of pepper in it.  They were delicious.

I also smoked some chicken wings and we had a pre-Halloween bash.  Chili, baked beans, chicken wings, chuck roast.  S'mores on the fire pit after dinner.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 08, 2012, 03:29:49 PM
I don't have a place setter so I'm gonna get the fire going, put the grate on and then cover the grate with bricks.  That's what I usually do for ribs to keep the heat somewhat indirect.  Then I put a few strips of wadded up tin foil on the bricks to raise the meat up a bit and then the meat.  I will put the meat in foil pans this time as has been recommended.  Must get a plate setter...
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 08, 2012, 04:18:11 PM
I don't have a place setter so I'm gonna get the fire going, put the grate on and then cover the grate with bricks.  That's what I usually do for ribs to keep the heat somewhat indirect.  Then I put a few strips of wadded up tin foil on the bricks to raise the meat up a bit and then the meat.  I will put the meat in foil pans this time as has been recommended.  Must get a plate setter...

You could put a sheet pan on the ring to partially block the coals and then use blocks to raise the grate. I use little blocks of wood resting on the ring when wanting to raise the grate without the platesetter. The 3-4" makes a difference.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on November 08, 2012, 05:34:45 PM
Haven't made brisket in awhile.

Isn't there two ways of doing it? A time/temp for slicing vs. a time/temp for shredding?

Should you brine a brisket overnight like a pork shoulder / turkey?

Euge - I like the fat-side down approach. I make pulled pork more frequently, and the bottom can get dried out.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 08, 2012, 06:00:19 PM
Haven't made brisket in awhile.

Isn't there two ways of doing it? A time/temp for slicing vs. a time/temp for shredding?

Should you brine a brisket overnight like a pork shoulder / turkey?

Euge - I like the fat-side down approach. I make pulled pork more frequently, and the bottom can get dried out.

I personally like to do my pork fat side up and you could place a pan of apple juice under the meat to help keep the bottom from drying out.  You could also put the pork shoulder in an aluminum pan.  You may not get the same type of bark on the bottom of the pork as you do on top, but it will be very juicy and tender. 

I usually will cook the pork w/ good smoke for the fist 3-4 hours, then place it in a pan w/ some apple juice, cover w/ foil and let cook the rest of the way.  At the end (after meat is 200-205), I will remove the foil and and let sit in the smoker for about another hour (I don't add anymore heat after this as I just want to let the meat sit and keep warm).  After you pull the pork, take some of what's left in the pan, add a little apple cider vinegar, bring to a simmer in a pot and pour over the pulled pork or dip the pork in. Many time people will come over and eat the pork like this without any bbq sauce!  I do all my smoking in a large offset smoker, but I'm sure this would work great in a BGE too. 
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 08, 2012, 07:07:55 PM
Brisket is just so different I just can't imagine brining it in regular circumstance for bbq. A better candidate for beef broth injection or some sort of marinade- some people like that...

Truth be told: brining a brisket you get corned-beef. That I can get behind in a big way but one needs to know what they are getting into if smoking the corned-beef because then they have pastrami which will have to be braised to reduce the saltiness.
Title: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: bluesman on November 08, 2012, 07:32:30 PM
I've smoked them fat-side up and down, but found that fat-side up seems to help keep the meat more tender and juicy. It's an ongoing debate and there are several variables at play but this has been my experience.

I like a basic dry rub overnight in the fridge prior to smoking. I think it enhances the flavor of the meat. Although I've also done them just salt and peppered with very good results. I also like to foil after 150F, helps tenderize and retain moisture.

Plan on a long smoke for sure. This is a cut that requires "low-n-slow".
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 08, 2012, 08:08:09 PM
Brisket is just so different I just can't imagine brining it in regular circumstance for bbq. A better candidate for beef broth injection or some sort of marinade- some people like that...

Truth be told: brining a brisket you get corned-beef. That I can get behind in a big way but one needs to know what they are getting into if smoking the corned-beef because then they have pastrami which will have to be braised to reduce the saltiness.

+1.  There's no need to brine a brisket for bbq purposes and I've never used a brine w/ pork.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 08, 2012, 11:52:32 PM
My keezer smells like garlic and pepper.   Guess that's because it has two 10 lb briskets wrapped up in cling film in it  :D 
Trimmed the meat and applied a traditional Canadian spice rub (read: bunch of stuff thrown together) to the brisket this afternoon.  No room in the fridge so it's in hanging out with the beer until tomorrow night when it meets the smoker.  Hope it works out.  Thinking of doing some poutine to go with the brisket.  Mmmm....poutine.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: markaberrant on November 09, 2012, 09:08:26 PM
Wow, some of you guys are really overthinking your brisket.  I've done them many different ways, and same as brewing, I've found its best to keep things simple.

Dry rub:
2 parts coarse salt (kosher/sea)
1 part coarse black pepper

I use about ½ cup of rub per whole brisket, apply rub just before putting on the smoker.

I buy the biggest briskets I can find, they stay more moist.  They also take longer, but are well worth it.

I cook fat side down on my UDS at 225-250F.  Wrap in foil when internal temp hits 165F.  When internal temp hits 192F, remove from smoker, wrap in old towels and place in small cooler for 2-6 hours until it is time to eat.

I have found that going higher than 192F when wrapped in foil produces meat that is too tender and soft.  There is a lot of heat trapped in there, resulting in a bigger temp increase after you remove it from the smoker.

I budget 1hr/lb using this method on my UDS, but it is usually less.  I've given this "recipe" to some BGE owners who had the same results/cooking times.

I like using mesquite and/or oak with brisket.

The foiling method is critical for most home smokers to keep things nice and moist.  And most guests are blown away when they ask what is in the rub, and I tell them salt and pepper.  I wouldn't cook brisket any other way again.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 09, 2012, 09:37:01 PM
Wow, some of you guys are really overthinking your brisket.

Ya know, I used to be the same way.  When I lived in Texas, simple was the way I learned.  When I lived in Alabama, I discovered new ways to do brisket, even though I thought those ways were a sin!  I've gotten my technique from members of my Mother's side of the family, who are all from Alabama, Georgia and North Carolina.  They are competition BBQers who are part of different teams that have won well over 100 medals and ribbons plus some best of awards and some Grand Champioin trophies.  Needless to say, our family get togethers are sever diet busters...especially when my Dad's side of the family (da Hawaiian side) does a hog.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: markaberrant on November 09, 2012, 09:52:13 PM
Yeah, I wasn't insulting anyone or saying their methods don't work.  I'm a big believer in simple approach to things, but as we know in brewing, complicated recipes and simple recipes can win medals.

In my opinion, the BBQ hobby, particularly competition guys, go WAY OFF THE DEEP END.  There is a lot of money on the line, so they are looking to gain whatever advanatage they can, but a lot of it seems to be snake oil.

When it comes to pork, sure you've gotta dress it up a bit.  Marinades, brines, injections, mops, rubs and sauces can really enhance things, though I still don't think you should be doing all of them.  But for me, brisket is all about bringing out the meat flavour and not covering it up.

Again, just my opinion, try things out and see what works for you.  But in my experience, simple is better when it comes to brisket.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 09, 2012, 10:06:16 PM
Oh, I didn't take anything you said as an insult.  I couldn't believe that someone would do the things they do to a brisket to cook them.  Yet, I gave some of those a try (cooking in an aluminum pan, simple beef broth marinade and injection) and my briskets have turned out better than just salt and pepper.  Honestly, as I was trying these for the first time, I had already made up my mind that they wouldn't turn out good.  I remember as I was smoking the brisket, I was regretting trying these methods and messing up a good piece of meat.  Yet, I was shocked at how well it turned out. 
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 09, 2012, 10:54:48 PM
Well, good or bad I went with a more complex rub (heavy salt and pepper and lighter onion, garlic, paprika, cumin, thyme) with a bit of brown sugar in it.  Could be good, can't see how it could be that bad either.  Worst case it'll all get drenched in sauce to cover my sins and since it's my first brisket, I'll plead inexperience to explain the sauce.

Gonna put the two of them on about 11 tonight.  They are both close to 10 lbs so at 9 tomorro AM, that will be 10 hours and I'll see how they are coming.  I may wait until later but I don't know.  Don't want to be up all night.  If I could have gotten bigger ones, I would have but 10lbs was the biggest my store had. 

Once they are done, I'll pull them off and wrap them and put them in the cooler as many have mentioned.  I am guessing that warming it back up is not as bad a sin as drying them out.  Only one of our guests considers himself a BBQ'er but he also considers himself an expert in pretty much everything else so I'm sure he'll find a flaw.  Everyone else will eat some meat, drink some beer and have a great time regardless of whether it's "authentic" or perfect or not.  I'm also throwing 10 lbs of sausages on the grill to smoke in the afternoon so if people don't like the brisket, they can have sausage and if they don't like sausage, screw 'em.

I'll add some pics as the process continues.  Wish me luck.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 09, 2012, 11:15:04 PM
I'm sure it will turn out well and it sounds like it will be tasty.  Like beer, there's so many ways to do great BBQ.  I remember at a bbq competition event, there was a group that did their brisket w/ Greek seasoning, something I never would have thought of.  Holy crap was it good.  They had fresh home made flat bread, tzatziki sauce and feta.  I wasn't able to pull the recipe from these guys, so I not sure I'll ever attempt it myself, but wow was this good. 

Looking forward to your pics!
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 09, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
I was trying to remember who turned me on to smoked chuck and it was Mark. Thanks Mark! My life will never be the same...
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: tschmidlin on November 10, 2012, 06:42:50 AM
Can't wait to see the pics, good luck gmac!
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 10, 2012, 02:49:31 PM
Here we are 10 hours in.  I'm surprised by the amount of liquid in the foil pan.  I think I'll pull them out and let the finish on the grate to "bark up" the bottom a bit. 
They started lower than I had intended but when I got up at 5 to check on them, they were sitting nicely at 250. Internal temp in the flat right now is about 164.

(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cancichfan/10hours.jpg)
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 10, 2012, 03:07:07 PM
I see what you meant now by using the bricks. Bet that works quite well- I used to place large rocks in my old drafty smoker to help maintain and hold heat.

Briskets look good were they in the pan the entire time?
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 10, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
Briskets look good were they in the pan the entire time?
Yes, in the pan since last night.  Gonna pull them out now actually.
I think the bricks (the bottom one is actually a patio stone that sits on the ring) are why it was lower than anticipated last night.  That's a lot of stone to heat up.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: thebigbaker on November 10, 2012, 03:33:19 PM
Just drooled all over my keyboard.  Those look great! 
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: gmac on November 11, 2012, 04:48:12 PM
Sorry guys.  In the rush to feed and "water" 35 or 40 people, I didn't get a picture of the final results.  But, the brisket was a huge hit and everyone seemed to like it.  Two 10 lb briskets and 20 lbs of sausage disappeared in quick order.  I did the sausages on the egg too after the brisket was off.  Smoked them for an hour. They were awesome too.  Kicked two kegs of APA and put a real dent in my keg of cider too.  My head hurts.

Thanks for all your help and advice.  I can see more brisket in my future. 
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 11, 2012, 05:26:46 PM
Haven't done any beef in a long while so...

Inspired by this thread I bought a 4lb boneless chuck roast- the fattiest one there. I tied it and liberally coated with kosher salt and fresh coarse cracked pepper. Tried a modified Myron Mixon brisket method but also went by temp.

It went straight into the egg at 290F and smoked for 2.5 hours until the inserted probe read 158F. It was then placed into a roasting pan and covered tightly with foil and left till the meat reached 205F. I then closed the dampers and let it rest until internal read 155F. Took around 7 hours start to finish.

A taste test revealed excellent results. The roast was chilled and will be sliced. Had some with ramen for breakfast. Fantastic smoky beefy flavor.
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: euge on November 11, 2012, 05:30:00 PM
I can see more brisket in my future.

It makes great chili too. Spaghetti. Sandwich meat. Makes corned beef and pastrami. Very versatile brisket is...

Glad it was a success!
Title: Re: 2 briskets on the BGE cooking time?
Post by: tschmidlin on November 12, 2012, 12:36:14 AM
Sounds great, too bad there are no pics.  I'm talking t you too Euge!