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General Category => Going Pro => Topic started by: majorvices on November 30, 2012, 05:41:42 PM

Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on November 30, 2012, 05:41:42 PM
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/e144a9c608871d4805af6ad214c8382f.jpg)

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/99d5b4021f184dc88094565e74a4a850.jpg)

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/cba9a1e075a74e1123c03bcafeee5622.jpg)

Old 7 bbl fermenter look like toys now.

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/7d0121e719788f95cf5bcd564fb9e51e.jpg)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: redbeerman on November 30, 2012, 06:06:02 PM
Very nice, Keith!  Looks like yellowhammer has really taken off!  (pun intended)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: tschmidlin on November 30, 2012, 06:41:49 PM
Awesome.  Not much else to say :)
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: denny on November 30, 2012, 06:44:52 PM
Congrats!
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: blatz on November 30, 2012, 06:44:57 PM
awesome!  I'll take your toys  8)  How bout them Titans  ??? :P ;D
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: euge on November 30, 2012, 06:54:50 PM
Wow.

So will you need a bigger kettle to fill them? ;)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on November 30, 2012, 07:00:27 PM
Damn that's sexy.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: thetooth on November 30, 2012, 08:05:52 PM
Nice!  It's amazing how much bigger they look than the 7's.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on November 30, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
awesome!  I'll take your toys  8)  How bout them Titans  ??? :P ;D

You can bet I thought about you, damn it!  :P

We have another 30 bbl fermentor and another 30 bbl bright on the way after the nw year. We ordered these from GW Kent. They were a bit pricier than the one's we had been having made in China through a company I won't name - but they were available now as opposed to 4 months and we didn't end up paying too terribly much more when you factored in shipping from China. And no shadowed manway, mirror polished welds, separate jackets on cone and body. They are pretty sweet.

Hoping to get a 30bbl brewhouse within the year but I will be back to back batching into these in the meantime.

New glycol unit from Pro Refrigeration should be here within 30 days. With my current unit will only be able to rig one up for use.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on November 30, 2012, 09:03:06 PM
I've been getting a lot of equipment quotes over the past week. Kent's on the short list for sure.

Do you happen to know the difference between their standard and "micro" tanks? From the catalog it looks like it's just thinner steel on the jacket exterior (16 vs. 14 gauge).
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on November 30, 2012, 09:13:38 PM
No, I don't. I'll ask Ethan. He ordered them. I just gave my thumbs up.

We actually got a good price on these. We were able to talk them down and get something that was fairly close to the quote we got from china + chipping. Don't get me wrong, they were definitely pricier but when you factor in I can start filling them next week as opposed to March or April ....
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: micsager on November 30, 2012, 10:09:30 PM
Very cool dude!!!
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: tygo on November 30, 2012, 11:47:44 PM
Hmm, I don't think I could fit one of those into my garage.   ;D

Very cool!
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 01, 2012, 01:18:48 AM
Gotta post a picture of me and my handsome self, of course. :D

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/2673e13a92aab1ec9b7536ca6c04a206.jpg)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on December 01, 2012, 01:23:09 AM
Very cool seeing your brewery grow, Keith!  I can't wait to get my hands on some Yellowhammer!
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 01, 2012, 01:38:28 AM
Gotta post a picture of me and my handsome self, of course. :D

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/2673e13a92aab1ec9b7536ca6c04a206.jpg)
Looking good.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: narvin on December 01, 2012, 02:51:55 AM
What a beautiful sight!
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on December 01, 2012, 03:36:29 AM
What a beautiful sight!

The tanks, at any rate. :P
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: tschmidlin on December 01, 2012, 07:09:36 AM
Gotta post a picture of me and my handsome self, of course. :D

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/2673e13a92aab1ec9b7536ca6c04a206.jpg)
Oh, well that puts it in perspective.  So the tanks are what, 8 feet tall? ;D
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Mark G on December 01, 2012, 03:40:44 PM
I believe I recall seeing pictures of your operation early on with homebrew conicals in upright freezers. You've definitely come a long way. Very nice upgrades.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 01, 2012, 04:05:20 PM
Oh, well that puts it in perspective.  So the tanks are what, 8 feet tall? ;D

Yeah. Yer clever.  ::) ;)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 01, 2012, 04:06:09 PM
I believe I recall seeing pictures of your operation early on with homebrew conicals in upright freezers. You've definitely come a long way. Very nice upgrades.

Yep. 42 gallon blichman conicals. Definitely was crazy.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on December 02, 2012, 03:00:15 AM
Looking good.

I am glad you had a great experience with GW Kent. I bought quite a few things from them and I am happy too.

I heard that their Micro line is a mixed bag. Made in China.
Regular stuff is made in Taiwan.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: bluesman on December 02, 2012, 04:01:44 AM
Congrats!

It'll make for a more profitable business.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 02, 2012, 02:10:18 PM
Congrats!

It'll make for a more profitable business.

It better or I will be out of business!!! Amazing how expensive this stuff is. You about spend as much or more on cooperage than you do on tanks!

We are actually looking into leasing kegs now. The company we are going to go through works through the distributor so if the keg comes up missing it is the distributors fault. Course, it costs around $1400 per month minimum. F'ing racket!!!
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: bluesman on December 02, 2012, 03:30:24 PM
Best of luck to you Keith!

What kind of kegs do you use? What do they cost?
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 02, 2012, 05:32:26 PM
We have some plastic kegs and some used stainless sankes. Gonna probably sell off all the plastic kegs when we start leasing.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: bluesman on December 03, 2012, 12:59:51 AM
We have some plastic kegs and some used stainless sankes. Gonna probably sell off all the plastic kegs when we start leasing.
I heard about the tragedy from the plastic keg exploding and killing a brewer this year. Really scary. Makes you rethink the whole plastic keg idea.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: thetooth on December 03, 2012, 01:14:46 AM
We have some plastic kegs and some used stainless sankes. Gonna probably sell off all the plastic kegs when we start leasing.
I heard about the tragedy from the plastic keg exploding and killing a brewer this year. Really scary. Makes you rethink the whole plastic keg idea.

I know a couple of local breweries that use them without issue.  From what I understand of the explosion, it was really more of a brewery safety issue than an issue with the keg.  Someone attempted to clean one using an unregulated air compressor, so it was pressurized WAY above the maximum pressure that those are rated for.  Someone could argue that a steel keg would have held anyway, but it still could have easily been avoided by regulating the compressor to something within spec when cleaning.  I think I heard something about the brewery in question having a competition to see who could clean the most kegs in a time period, which likely led to someone scrapping safety to be faster.  Just a terrible tragedy.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 03, 2012, 01:57:51 AM
The plastic keg company sent out a notification recently not to run your compressor over 40 psi. I have heard of a few breweries with exploding plastic keg issues. The one in question is the only death though.

I don't like the plastic kegs much. Lots of little problems with them, I won't go into all of them. Looking forward to moving away from them entirely.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on December 03, 2012, 02:06:10 AM
Someone attempted to clean one using an unregulated air compressor, so it was pressurized WAY above the maximum pressure that those are rated for.

Apparently that isn't the case for all of the breweries that have had issues.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121021/GJNEWS_01/121029899
http://www.saferproducts.gov/ViewIncident/1266302

FWIW, we had one fail about two years ago at normal working pressure (10-12 psi). I believe that in that case the seam had been weakened by repeated hot/cold cycling.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on December 03, 2012, 02:30:56 AM
Someone attempted to clean one using an unregulated air compressor, so it was pressurized WAY above the maximum pressure that those are rated for.

Apparently that isn't the case for all of the breweries that have had issues.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121021/GJNEWS_01/121029899
http://www.saferproducts.gov/ViewIncident/1266302

FWIW, we had one fail about two years ago at normal working pressure (10-12 psi). I believe that in that case the seam had been weakened by repeated hot/cold cycling.
I have 77 of them. So far so good. But I am concern.
It is newer a good idea to overpressurized any pressure vessel.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: anthony on December 03, 2012, 03:08:19 AM
I have 6 3BBL serving tanks and 2 5BBL jacketed fermenters from the GW Kent micro line. None of it is in use for production yet but I have water tested all of it. The serving tanks were pretty much perfect when they arrived. A few of the welds were a little rough and there were some fairly insignificant surface scratches inside the tanks. The fermenters were more of the same, except for one of them which had some sort of a weld burn-through on the bottom of the cone. This causes a small, but significant leak from the jacket. GW Kent has offered to pay for a local welder to repair the hole, but of course finding a qualified stainless welder in my area who won't end up making the problem a hell of a lot worse is a challenge.

The 3/4" MPT threads on the jacket for attaching glycol in/out are atrocious too. A couple of them look like they tapped them more than once. They all had bits of metal and pipe dope (I assume from the back-gassing process during manufacture) in them. And they were a challenge to get fittings to mate into, in the end, lots of teflon, elbow grease, and finger crossing made them water tight.

BUT as mentioned, often times, you can't beat GW Kent's lead time. I had the serving tanks within 4 weeks of ordering them and I had the fermenters within a week of ordering them. They are often sitting on tanks/fermenters/whatever up there in Michigan, sometimes from other breweries' who end up not being able to purchase the items, sometimes just timing I guess.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: thetooth on December 03, 2012, 08:14:43 PM
Someone attempted to clean one using an unregulated air compressor, so it was pressurized WAY above the maximum pressure that those are rated for.

Apparently that isn't the case for all of the breweries that have had issues.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121021/GJNEWS_01/121029899
http://www.saferproducts.gov/ViewIncident/1266302

FWIW, we had one fail about two years ago at normal working pressure (10-12 psi). I believe that in that case the seam had been weakened by repeated hot/cold cycling.

Wow... thanks for those links.  I was unaware of the low-pressure failures.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on December 03, 2012, 09:24:50 PM
Do you happen to know the difference between their standard and "micro" tanks?

Here's what I got back from GWK:
Quote
Micro-fermenter use our econo butterfly valve, non shadowless manway, and cladding on tank is thinner stainless steel.  There are detail finish on tank that is done with less labor for saving also.

I heard that their Micro line is a mixed bag. Made in China.
Regular stuff is made in Taiwan.

In our price range, we'll be getting Chinese tanks one way or another. For what an American manufacturer would charge, we can replace them all at least once.

At this point I'm leaning toward Glacier, but I have three months to decide.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 03, 2012, 10:12:03 PM
We almost went with Glacier.

Filling my first 30 bbl now. Gottanother batch to boil. Gonna be a long night. At least there will be beer.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on December 04, 2012, 12:30:40 AM
I don't miss those days.

When I have *my* brewery, it's gonna be different...
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: bluesman on December 04, 2012, 03:48:08 AM
We almost went with Glacier.

Filling my first 30 bbl now. Gottanother batch to boil. Gonna be a long night. At least there will be beer.

Dedication to the craft. It's a beautiful thing Keith.  :)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: tschmidlin on December 04, 2012, 05:00:23 AM
I don't miss those days.

When I have *my* brewery, it's gonna be different...
;D
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 04, 2012, 01:18:15 PM
I don't miss those days.

When I have *my* brewery, it's gonna be different...

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/majorvices/ad561abeae04c8be09a98e25ef428262.jpg)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on December 05, 2012, 02:21:01 AM
I don't miss those days.

When I have *my* brewery, it's gonna be different...
Let's frame it :)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on December 05, 2012, 02:22:27 AM
We almost went with Glacier.
Friend of mine bought 3 BBL single wall bright tank.
He is VERY happy with it.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: phillamb168 on December 06, 2012, 02:55:42 PM
How many times a week do you brew, Keith? In looking at the numbers of units to be sent out, it seems mind-boggling to me that I'd be able to push 9,000 bottles/cans PER BATCH, meaning I'm sending out nearly 60,000 bottles/cans per month. Where does it all go? Boggles the mind.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 06, 2012, 09:52:09 PM
i brew between one and three times a week - but usually twice. That number will go up this coming yar.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on December 07, 2012, 07:08:35 PM
i brew between one and three times a week - but usually twice. That number will go up this coming yar.

Maybe you've already mentioned it in this thread, but what is your annual production goal with the new 30BBL fermentors?

Also, what size is your brewhouse?  I've seen some smaller micros that have, say, a 20bbl brewhouse with 40bbl fermentors.  How would you utilize this setup?  Would you brew two 20bbl batches and put them both in a 40bbl fermentor?
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on December 07, 2012, 07:26:15 PM
Double brewing to one fermenter is quite common.
Some breweries brew around clock and fill fermenter in 3, 4 or 5 brews.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on December 07, 2012, 07:51:51 PM
Double brewing to one fermenter is quite common.
Some breweries brew around clock and fill fermenter in 3, 4 or 5 brews.

Thanks, Leos.  Good to know!
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 07, 2012, 07:55:06 PM
Sierra Nevada has a 200 bbl brewhouse that fills 800 bbl fermenters. They have a 100bbl that fills 300 or 400 bbl fermenters (can't remember the size for sure). The pilot brewery is 10 bbl and they fill 20s.

Bells had 400 bbls fermenters and only had a 50 bbl brewhouse. They have added a 200bbl and still have the 50 bbl.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 07, 2012, 08:15:44 PM
I have a 1.4 bbl brewhouse and I have to brew 21 times to get my 30 bbl tanks filled.

j/k, it's a 15 bbl brew house.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: nateo on December 07, 2012, 08:24:42 PM
Yeah, it's called "drauflassen" and it's a good way to pitch the proper amount of yeast without having to build up a gigantic starter. I've read the window in which it's best to add more wort is fairly narrow, like 12-18 hours.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on December 07, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
I have a 1.4 bbl brewhouse and I have to brew 21 times to get my 30 bbl tanks filled.

j/k, it's a 15 bbl brew house.

haha... :P

Is there a best practice as far as how long to wait between batches that are going into a fermentor that is bigger than the brewhouse?  I would think you'd want to get both batches in the fermentor as quickly as possible, but maybe sanitation is easier to control on a commercial level?
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 07, 2012, 08:34:16 PM
I have a 1.4 bbl brewhouse and I have to brew 21 times to get my 30 bbl tanks filled.

j/k, it's a 15 bbl brew house.

haha... :P

Is there a best practice as far as how long to wait between batches that are going into a fermentor that is bigger than the brewhouse?  I would think you'd want to get both batches in the fermentor as quickly as possible, but maybe sanitation is easier to control on a commercial level?
Sierra Nevada pitched the yeast on the first fill. They know how much to pitch, and it does start the growth in the first batch filled into the fermenter. Don't know how much.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 07, 2012, 10:56:49 PM
We fill the tank the same day (back to back brew session) and just pitch the proper amount all at once. We build up yeast from a smaller 7 bbl fermentor.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: dcbc on December 18, 2012, 02:10:47 AM
My buddy's brewery runs a 15 bbl brewhouse into 30 bbl fermenters.  I did back to back brew days with him.  Pitch on the first batch.  Brew the next morning and fill her up.  Pretty important to hit that knock out temperature on the nose on that second batch.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on December 19, 2012, 03:46:50 AM
White Labs provides pitchable quantities to breweries based on batch size.  If you pitch on the first out of two batches going into a fermenter, would you only need the pitch the quantity White Labs suggests for the first batch size?  In other words, if I'm fermenting an ale in a 30bbl fermentor using two 15bbl batches, would I buy the 15bbl batch size from White Labs and just pitch it to the first batch?  That would seem like a really good way to cut costs in an efficient way.

drauflassen - Thanks Nateo!   ;D
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: anthony on December 19, 2012, 04:42:28 AM
No, pitch for the desired density for the final volume of wort.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: jeffy on December 19, 2012, 11:19:02 AM
Really?  I would say the opposite, as if the first batch is a giant starter for the second addition.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: majorvices on December 19, 2012, 12:52:38 PM
I asked Neva Parker about this and she said you pitch for the total volume. I know there are some breweries out there that start a beer off with a lower cell count, but I feel better pitching for the entire volume as well.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: dcbc on December 21, 2012, 05:39:51 PM
White Labs provides pitchable quantities to breweries based on batch size.  If you pitch on the first out of two batches going into a fermenter, would you only need the pitch the quantity White Labs suggests for the first batch size?  In other words, if I'm fermenting an ale in a 30bbl fermentor using two 15bbl batches, would I buy the 15bbl batch size from White Labs and just pitch it to the first batch?  That would seem like a really good way to cut costs in an efficient way.

drauflassen - Thanks Nateo!   ;D

My friend pitched enough for the whole 30 bbl batch.  For the big beer he was brewing, This was two of the WLP pitchable collapsed milk carton looking containers.  In speaking with him recently, he said that, now, he brews one of his smaller gravity beers on his first pitch of the cycle so he doesn't have to buy as much yeast to get enough cell count as he does for the larger gravity beer we happened to brew that day.  Much less expensive.  After the first batch, he can harvest as much as he needs for whatever is next on the schedule and resuse it for ten generations or so.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: nateo on December 21, 2012, 06:06:08 PM
My WAG is that it won't really matter whether you pitch for the first step or the whole volume, as long as you're consistent the beer should also be consistent. It might be worth experimenting. If you can save money pitching less yeast and make the same quality of beer, why not? It might be an expensive experiment, though.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: anthony on December 24, 2012, 02:56:06 AM
My WAG is that it won't really matter whether you pitch for the first step or the whole volume, as long as you're consistent the beer should also be consistent. It might be worth experimenting. If you can save money pitching less yeast and make the same quality of beer, why not? It might be an expensive experiment, though.

The big problem with stuff like this is that it is usually non-linear in nature. So someone's experiment to prove this has no effect on a 6 gallon batch might not scale to 7 or even 30 bbls. Same thing with gravity, it could be that a beer with a gravity below 12 plato shows no issues but beers above have problems or vice-versa.

Ultimately, on a professional scale, while the yeast pitch is the most expensive component of many batches, unlike the majority of the other inputs, that cost gets split into a fraction as you reuse the yeast in each further generation. And the fact that most breweries are pretty religiously repitching makes an experiment like the above, even more risky, all for saving what will probably amount to $20-40.
Title: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: bluesman on December 24, 2012, 02:23:31 PM
I think the formula used by some breweries is .75 million cells/mL/degree Plato for ales, and 1.5 million cells/mL/degree Plato for lagers.

Don't know if this is the industry standard for pro-breweries but I think most homebrewing calculators use this formula.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: nateo on December 24, 2012, 03:28:15 PM
And the fact that most breweries are pretty religiously repitching makes an experiment like the above, even more risky, all for saving what will probably amount to $20-40.

I don't really see how it's risky, since that technique was so common in German brewing that they made a name for it. Sure, $20-40 isn't much per batch, but if you're doing 100-200 batches a year, that adds up.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on December 24, 2012, 03:46:27 PM
Sure, $20-40 isn't much per batch, but if you're doing 100-200 batches a year, that adds up.

I think a more accurate way to look at it would be to say that the cost of a single yeast pitch, amortized over 100-200 batches, is insignificant. If there are any commercial breweries buying a fresh yeast pitch every time, well, they're doing it wrong.

The risky part would be trying the experiment and possibly ending up with a batch of beer that didn't meet your standards for sale.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: nateo on December 24, 2012, 05:30:38 PM
I think a more accurate way to look at it would be to say that the cost of a single yeast pitch, amortized over 100-200 batches, is insignificant. If there are any commercial breweries buying a fresh yeast pitch every time, well, they're doing it wrong.

The risky part would be trying the experiment and possibly ending up with a batch of beer that didn't meet your standards for sale.

If you're getting 100-200 batches out of a yeast pitch, you're only buying fresh yeast once a year. Most of the guys on the probrewer board are pitching fresh yeast about 5-15 repitches, and buying fresh pitches 5 or 6 times a year, or more. That's assuming you're using the same yeast for every beer you make, too. If you have 3 or more different strains, I don't think it's feasible to get 200 batches out of a single pitch.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: tschmidlin on December 24, 2012, 07:07:11 PM
I think a more accurate way to look at it would be to say that the cost of a single yeast pitch, amortized over 100-200 batches, is insignificant. If there are any commercial breweries buying a fresh yeast pitch every time, well, they're doing it wrong.

The risky part would be trying the experiment and possibly ending up with a batch of beer that didn't meet your standards for sale.

If you're getting 100-200 batches out of a yeast pitch, you're only buying fresh yeast once a year. Most of the guys on the probrewer board are pitching fresh yeast about 5-15 repitches, and buying fresh pitches 5 or 6 times a year, or more. That's assuming you're using the same yeast for every beer you make, too. If you have 3 or more different strains, I don't think it's feasible to get 200 batches out of a single pitch.
It is not a problem to get 200 batches out of a single pitch if your yeast management and brewing schedule are solid.  But yes, it helps if you use a single yeast strain.  You pitch the first one, then split it for the next 2-3 batches, then each of those can be split for subsequent batches, you hit 200 pretty fast.  The limiting factors are really the fermenters.  Many of the local breweries swap yeast back and forth, so it is not a problem for them and saves a bunch of money.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: nateo on December 24, 2012, 07:20:25 PM
The limiting factors are really the fermenters.

Yeah, assuming you average 14 days per batch in the FV, you'll need to brew 5 days a week and need 10 FVs to hit 240 batches per year. You might be able to do it with 9 FVs if you have a few beers that need less time. Most of the brewpubs/micros I've been to have half that many FVs.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: anthony on December 24, 2012, 07:28:44 PM
And the fact that most breweries are pretty religiously repitching makes an experiment like the above, even more risky, all for saving what will probably amount to $20-40.

I don't really see how it's risky, since that technique was so common in German brewing that they made a name for it. Sure, $20-40 isn't much per batch, but if you're doing 100-200 batches a year, that adds up.

I guess for me, $2-4k isn't worth it. In a year, that is an insignificant amount of our total costs.

It may have well been common in German brewing but it isn't common in American brewing. And you can be sure that if the cost/benefit was there, the larger breweries like AB-Inbev would be all over it; think how much they could save.

Anyhow, that is the great thing about the brewing business and being the owner/brewer, you can roll whichever way you want :)
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: a10t2 on December 24, 2012, 07:52:51 PM
Most of the guys on the probrewer board are pitching fresh yeast about 5-15 repitches, and buying fresh pitches 5 or 6 times a year, or more.

I wouldn't agree that's a fair characterization of the industry, frankly. For every brewer you meet who believes there's a maximum number of repitches, there's one who's working on his 150th and not planning on stopping anytime soon. And even if you are only repitching through 10 "generations", that's 4-8 months of brewing, depending on turnover times.

At any rate, my point was that even if you're getting a relatively small (say 20-30ish) number of batches out of each pitch, the amortized cost of doubling or tripling up on that initial pitch is insignificant relative to the other consumables.
Title: Re: getting 30 bbls on line
Post by: boulderbrewer on December 25, 2012, 05:01:31 AM
Nice work, if those are 42 g Blichmanns you are what 3' 6". I knew you were small but damn!