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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: ynotbrusum on December 16, 2012, 12:57:33 PM

Title: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 16, 2012, 12:57:33 PM
So it's my first (intentional) sour and I was just wondering, as I am at a little over a month in the primary on WLP630 - should I rack to secondary? Or just let it go the full time on the lees before racking to keg?  I was planning on 6-8 months for this beer.  Since it is so low in gravity, I didn't want to assume that it was to be treated like the bigger Belgians.

 :-[
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: lornemagill on December 16, 2012, 03:42:36 PM
this wont necessarily answer your question, just passing along my berliner experiences.  i did a berliner last year and pitched lacto wlp677 first, then wlp611 four days later, the lacto fermented most of the sugars before i pitched the ale yeast.  transferred to a sanke keg for secondary conditioning/souring in the closet for one month.  bottled 5 gallons, kegged 5 gallons.  it was a good clean, clear beer but never got as sour as i like.  i have since done two batches of a sour mash berliner that have been great and are ready in two or three weeks.  one got a 34 score last year, nothing to brag about but within normal limits.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 16, 2012, 04:56:52 PM
Yeah, I listened to that talk from NHC about going with the Lactobacillus for 5 days and then adding the yeast, but my LHBS talked me into the Berliner Weisse WLP proprietary blend (since it was getting a little long in the tooth, he gave me all 3 of his vials for the price of one - so I pitched em all!)

Just wondering about the racking off the yeast part...
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: lornemagill on December 17, 2012, 01:14:06 AM
no matter what i'm sure it will be a fine beer.  it just depends on what you want.  for me i had no real bar to judge by.  the only berliner i had at the time i brewed my first was from my local brewery.  i think i've only had 3 berliners other than my own.  i've yet to have one from berlin or even outside austin.  its a great summer beer, sometimes i mix it with cherry juice.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: tom on December 17, 2012, 01:14:36 AM
Can you check the pH?   A Berliner Weisse should be between 3.0 to 3.2 pH.

For future reference, I like to do a "sour mash"/lactobacillus starter at 100-120F, then add the sour mash/lacto starter to the wort and repeat a sour mash at 100-120F.  After reaching the desired acidity, chill and add a German ale yeast.

How does it taste?
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 18, 2012, 02:59:52 AM
I haven't tasted it yet, but ican pull a sample and test the pH and the taste.  I thought I would adjust at the end using lactic acid on this batch.  So you do two sequential lactobacillus starters and then mash at the 100-120f for how long before you then add yeast?  Also, no boil, I assume?
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: tom on December 18, 2012, 04:49:46 AM
I do a "sour mash + lactobacillus starter".  I mash the grains, no-boil, and let cool to 100-120F.  Then add the starter and some more crushed grains and keep at 100-120F until sour enough.  Then cool to room temperature and add German ale yeast.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: Jimmy K on December 19, 2012, 04:06:41 PM
6-8 months for a berliner is insane. It might work, but it is a waste of time. You should be drinking this within a month.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: tom on December 19, 2012, 05:08:29 PM
Unfortunately, if you pitch the ale yeast with the lacto it can take that long. 

Now, most recommend pitching the lacto/sourmash first, then once you reach your desired acidity (~ 3 days) pitch the ale yeast.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: Jimmy K on December 19, 2012, 05:10:03 PM
Unfortunately, if you pitch the ale yeast with the lacto it can take that long. 
Exactly, so don't do it!
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 02, 2013, 03:47:38 AM
So how quickly are you able to drink the BW doing it with the sour mash/lacto process first?
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: Jimmy K on January 02, 2013, 01:42:23 PM
So how quickly are you able to drink the BW doing it with the sour mash/lacto process first?
As fast as you can ferment and bottle condition. A quick boil after the sour mash will kill the lacto and stabilize the acidity. Ferment with an ale yeast and bottle - you could be drinking it 2-3 weeks after brewing. You also don't have to worry about lacto contaminating other equipment or bottles getting too acidic.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: dimik on January 02, 2013, 03:15:20 PM
6-8 months for a berliner is insane. It might work, but it is a waste of time. You should be drinking this within a month.

I did a 15 gal no boil batch and drank the first 5 gal within a month or so and it was OK. The other 5 gal I left plain and bottled something like 8-9 months later, and the other one I aged on raspberries and bottled after almost a year. Both of those are WAY more interesting than the young version.
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: Jimmy K on January 02, 2013, 03:32:12 PM
I did a 15 gal no boil batch and drank the first 5 gal within a month or so and it was OK. The other 5 gal I left plain and bottled something like 8-9 months later, and the other one I aged on raspberries and bottled after almost a year. Both of those are WAY more interesting than the young version.
This was not sour mashed I'd guess?
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on January 02, 2013, 04:32:45 PM
...6-8 months for a berliner is insane. It might work, but it is a waste of time. You should be drinking this within a month...

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: Jimmy K on January 02, 2013, 04:44:01 PM
...6-8 months for a berliner is insane. It might work, but it is a waste of time. You should be drinking this within a month...

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
Hehe. Yeah, I know  :)
Title: Re: Berliner Weisse Question
Post by: dimik on January 03, 2013, 04:34:26 AM
I did a 15 gal no boil batch and drank the first 5 gal within a month or so and it was OK. The other 5 gal I left plain and bottled something like 8-9 months later, and the other one I aged on raspberries and bottled after almost a year. Both of those are WAY more interesting than the young version.
This was not sour mashed I'd guess?

Mashed, ran off, cooled, pitched.