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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: gmac on December 20, 2012, 03:49:26 PM

Title: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: gmac on December 20, 2012, 03:49:26 PM
I've been asked to make a full keg (15 gals or so) of crappy beer for an event.  The request was for a BMC style beer.  Not my sort of beer but it is what it is.
I made a first attempt using 80% pilsner malt and 20% rice with a single addition of Hallertau hops and it's still too flavourful for my testers.  So, I'm wondering if I should go to six row and more rice.  But, I don't really know how much rice I could use with six row. 
I'll likely be using Mexican Lager yeast.
Any help would be appreciated.  It's actually sort of interesting to see that making flavourless beer is harder than you'd think because its so unforgiving with nothing to hide behind. 
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: Rhoobarb on December 20, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
I was just listening to a podcast that mentioned that Bud uses ~30% rice.  Maybe that and 6-row?
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: Jimmy K on December 20, 2012, 04:59:47 PM
Considering a wit is ~50% unmalted wheat, I'd say your safe going up to 50% (conversion wise). Flavor-wise I have no idea.  Also, what IBU's are you at? Maybe just hold the hops near the kettle?
Title: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: denny on December 20, 2012, 06:19:29 PM
Why 6 row?
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 20, 2012, 07:59:16 PM
NA 2 row is 140 Lintner now. You could use 50% adjunct and the mash would be at 70 Lintner, so it would convert.
Title: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: denny on December 20, 2012, 08:29:57 PM
NA 2 row is 140 Lintner now. You could use 50% adjunct and the mash would be at 70 Lintner, so it would convert.

Yep.  There's a lot of old, outdated, currently incorrect info still floating around about the supposedly greater diastatic power of 6 row.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: nateo on December 20, 2012, 08:51:16 PM
6-row does have more DP than 2-row, but both have so much it's not a practical consideration anymore, unless you're using a kilned base malt with low DP. Briess 6-row is 180 DP, while their 2-row is 140 DP. As long as the weighted average of the grist is over 50 you'll get conversion, though I'd target 70 to be safe. As Jeff pointed out, that's a 50/50 mix with NA 2-row.

You might think about using corn instead of rice. Rice is pretty neutral. Corn gives a sort of sweetness. I got a recipe from a former Coors brewer who consults for micros now. He said to use 17.5% flaked corn, 17.5% flaked rice, and Bo-pils for the balance. One hop addition, between 13-17 IBU.

But if you're set on making "crappy beer," just use sorghum syrup instead of malt, use bread yeast, and ferment at 95*F.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: tom on December 20, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
A friend uses up to 60% rice.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: anje on December 21, 2012, 07:35:58 AM
I'm confused. Why did they ask you to make homebrew if they want BMC style beer? Surely, by the time you've gone through all your testing, it would be cheaper to just get a keg of macro-pilsner, even if they're just reimbursing you for ingredients.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: gmac on December 21, 2012, 12:55:44 PM
Why 6 row?
Cause I bought 10 lbs for a CAP and haven't used it yet.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: denny on December 21, 2012, 12:58:40 PM
Why 6 row?
Cause I bought 10 lbs for a CAP and haven't used it yet.

Good reason!
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: gmac on December 21, 2012, 01:04:12 PM
I'm confused. Why did they ask you to make homebrew if they want BMC style beer? Surely, by the time you've gone through all your testing, it would be cheaper to just get a keg of macro-pilsner, even if they're just reimbursing you for ingredients.

It's for a fund raiser so we are trying to make as much cash as we can.  I'm donating the beer so I'm not making multiple batches to see if we get it right, it's gonna be a one shot brew (I made the 80/20 beer before this came up).
Plus, you may not be as familiar with Canadian beer prices.  We get screwed up here on the cost of a keg or any other beer for that matter.  A keg of Bud is $289.95 plus deposit. 
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: Jimmy K on December 21, 2012, 01:09:21 PM
A keg of Bud is $289.95 plus deposit.
That is a felony
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: nateo on December 21, 2012, 01:09:44 PM
A keg of Bud is $289.95 plus deposit.

Barf. Being a homebrewer actually makes financial sense in Canada? Crazy!
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: weithman5 on December 21, 2012, 01:13:44 PM
i made a cap last year that had 18% corn, 9 percent rice. i did use 6 row for about 18% cuz i had some. ibu around 29.  other than some astringency it was not too bad.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: nateo on December 21, 2012, 01:28:42 PM
i made a cap last year that had 18% corn, 9 percent rice. i did use 6 row for about 18% cuz i had some. ibu around 29.  other than some astringency it was not too bad.

Yeah that beer was pretty good. I'd probably tone down the IBU a bit, or maybe used a higher AA% hop. n retrospect, I wonder if some of the astringency/harsh bitterness could have been from the hops. The 6-row flavor was pretty aggressive. I'd probably bump the adjuncts up a bit more next time, if you brew that again.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: redbeerman on December 21, 2012, 01:33:59 PM
I would keep your IBUs below 15.  Maybe as low as 10.  BMC is light and balanced, no bitterness, very clean (and boring) flavor.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: weithman5 on December 21, 2012, 02:01:55 PM
i made a cap last year that had 18% corn, 9 percent rice. i did use 6 row for about 18% cuz i had some. ibu around 29.  other than some astringency it was not too bad.

Yeah that beer was pretty good. I'd probably tone down the IBU a bit, or maybe used a higher AA% hop. n retrospect, I wonder if some of the astringency/harsh bitterness could have been from the hops. The 6-row flavor was pretty aggressive. I'd probably bump the adjuncts up a bit more next time, if you brew that again.

i will send you another this summer when i have it ready.  i just looked back at my notes again, and i was planning on no 6-row.  the hops in that beer were a homegrown magnum and sterling at who knows what ratio.  and thanks again nateo.
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: gmac on December 21, 2012, 04:51:07 PM
A keg of Bud is $289.95 plus deposit.

Barf. Being a homebrewer actually makes financial sense in Canada? Crazy!

One of my favourite beers is Muskoka Cream Ale.  It's $59.95 for 24 - 16 oz cans.  Yes, homebrewing can make good financial sense. 
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: alcaponejunior on December 27, 2012, 01:55:38 PM
To me the key flavor of good* light american adjunct lagers is corn.  Bud/bud light with lots of rice just seem to be crap to me, whilst I do happen to like** certain other AALs that have corn as a major ingredient.  Add more corn!

*good being used loosely there  ::)
**like being used even more loosely there  ::)
Title: Re: 6-row and rice - how much can I use?
Post by: jimrod on December 28, 2012, 01:37:41 AM
If you want the authentic taste then you might consider crumpling up a bunch of tin foil and add it to the primary and secondary...........haha