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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Jimmy K on January 10, 2013, 02:02:11 PM

Title: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: Jimmy K on January 10, 2013, 02:02:11 PM
I came into work this morning (Department of Agriculture) and somebody had left this on my desk. I would have thought North Caronlina too far south for hop production, but...
 
http://southeastfarmpress.com/management/demand-interest-hops-soaring-north-carolina (http://southeastfarmpress.com/management/demand-interest-hops-soaring-north-carolina)
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: hubie on January 10, 2013, 02:56:25 PM
I will be interested to hear what varieties they grow successfully.  I'd like to try planting something that is more sunlight neutral because I have so much shade around my house.  My cascades yielded only about a dozen cones this year.  In practice I can probably only grow hops as ornamental plants.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 10, 2013, 03:05:43 PM
A friend had luck growing hops in Florence, SC.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: ibru on January 10, 2013, 03:49:28 PM
An old college buddy of mine living in the Twin Cities area asked me if I knew some growers or people to share information on growing hop for that area. Interest is popping up all over...


Bruce
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: Titanium Brewing on January 11, 2013, 01:28:26 AM
You'd be surprised. I have had great luck with Cascade here in Los Angeles, 34 degrees North. My first year I harvested about 12 oz. off one plant, and last year it yielded about 2 pounds. The other varieties I have tried were failures, so this year i am going to do maybe 5 Casacde plants, with one being my 2 year old plant.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: nateo on January 11, 2013, 04:08:02 PM
There was a time brewers hated hops from the PNW. So, even if NC's hops don't taste right today, they might be in vogue in 10-20 years. Which is a long time to wait, if you're a hop farmer.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: BrewArk on January 11, 2013, 05:30:48 PM
You'd be surprised. I have had great luck with Cascade here in Los Angeles, 34 degrees North. My first year I harvested about 12 oz. off one plant, and last year it yielded about 2 pounds. The other varieties I have tried were failures, so this year i am going to do maybe 5 Casacde plants, with one being my 2 year old plant.

That'll be some hoppy brew! 12 oz. x 4 new plants plus 32 oz. from mature plant = 80 oz.  Divide your 200 gallon limit by that & you'll get "only" 2 oz for every 5 gallon batch the first year.  But then...
If you get 10 lbs. a year from your five plants?  Hope you like Cascade!
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: yso191 on January 11, 2013, 05:56:48 PM
At roughly 35* N. latitude they are significantly out of the band of 45-55 degrees which will result in poor hop cone maturation.  Obviously that would effect flavor, but I doubt that it would ever become in vogue.  Or commercially profitable for that matter.

But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?

Steve
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: tschmidlin on January 11, 2013, 05:59:23 PM
But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?
I don't know who "they" are, but if I was a hop grower in the Yakima valley I would burn any plant that would mature outside of the sweet band. ;)
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2013, 06:30:04 PM
At roughly 35* N. latitude they are significantly out of the band of 45-55 degrees which will result in poor hop cone maturation.  Obviously that would effect flavor, but I doubt that it would ever become in vogue.  Or commercially profitable for that matter.

But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?

Steve

You do know that commercial hops were grown in SF at one time, Sacramento, and Sonoma county? These are in the 37-38 parallel range. The reason they are not grown now is real estate in SF and Sacramento, and wine growing in Sonoma. CA is covered at some length in the Hop Atlas.

They stopped growing hops in Sonoma County around 1960 or a little before due to downy mildew and the other agronomic pressures.  For proof there is this place.

http://www.hopkilnwinery.com/home/
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: nateo on January 11, 2013, 06:48:17 PM
That article said they're experimenting with varieties developed in South Africa that are less day-length sensitive. Back in the day, hops were grown commercially in almost every state. It's entirely possible that most beer totally sucked back then, too.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: morticaixavier on January 11, 2013, 06:51:49 PM
At roughly 35* N. latitude they are significantly out of the band of 45-55 degrees which will result in poor hop cone maturation.  Obviously that would effect flavor, but I doubt that it would ever become in vogue.  Or commercially profitable for that matter.

But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?

Steve

You do know that commercial hops were grown in SF at one time, Sacramento, and Sonoma county? These are in the 37-38 parallel range. The reason they are not grown now is real estate in SF and Sacramento, and wine growing in Sonoma. CA is covered at some length in the Hop Atlas.

They stopped growing hops in Sonoma County around 1960 or a little before due to downy mildew and the other agronomic pressures.  For proof there is this place.

http://www.hopkilnwinery.com/home/

hop kilns and oasts are everywhere here in northern california. I see them at so many old farms that are now growing grapes. road names including 'hop' also abound. we are very close to being part of the PNW even down here as far south as sacramento, allthough folks up Eureka way would have us beleive that we are solidly in southern california.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: yso191 on January 11, 2013, 06:52:34 PM
At roughly 35* N. latitude they are significantly out of the band of 45-55 degrees which will result in poor hop cone maturation.  Obviously that would effect flavor, but I doubt that it would ever become in vogue.  Or commercially profitable for that matter.

But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?

Steve

You do know that commercial hops were grown in SF at one time, Sacramento, and Sonoma county? These are in the 37-38 parallel range. The reason they are not grown now is real estate in SF and Sacramento, and wine growing in Sonoma. CA is covered at some length in the Hop Atlas.

They stopped growing hops in Sonoma County around 1960 or a little before due to downy mildew and the other agronomic pressures.  For proof there is this place.

http://www.hopkilnwinery.com/home/

Yes I knew that.  And I know that hops are grown somewhat succesfully in south Africa.  I am in no way an expert, I just know what I was taught in the Haas Hops Academy last August.  I don't know if there are ways around the latitude issue, or if it just means a reduced (less profitable) crop from fewer cones maturing or what.  But 45-55* latitude sweet spot was clearly stated by the guys that do know.  And if you look at the areas in the world that are major producers of hops they are in that band, North and South.

Steve

Steve
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: nateo on January 11, 2013, 06:59:03 PM
The band in which grapes can be grown is mysteriously *ahem* pushing northward. The climate is getting weirder, and just because hops have grown really well in certain regions in the past, going forward, who knows.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2013, 07:34:55 PM
The OCB says commercial hops are grown between 30 and 52 degrees. The 52 would be inclusive of the Worcestershire hops region in England. I don't know what the 30 would include.

45 - 55 includes the European fields, and that may be the Haas groups viewpoint. I am interested if you tell us more about the Haas Hops Academy. A little envy too.

For Nateo - wine grapes were grown as far north as Scotland, then the Little Ice Age happened.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: nateo on January 11, 2013, 07:47:42 PM
The OCB says commercial hops are grown between 30 and 52 degrees. The 52 would be inclusive of the Worcestershire hops region in England. I don't know what the 30 would include.

45 - 55 includes the European fields, and that may be the Haas groups viewpoint. I am interested if you tell us more about the Haas Hops Academy. A little envy too.

For Nateo - wine grapes were grown as far north as Scotland, then the Little Ice Age happened.

30-40 would include South Africa, Argentina, Australia, and NZ (the north island, anyway. I'm not sure where they grow hops in NZ).

I've read about people planting wine grapes again in Scotland. I don't think it's really taken off yet.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: Jimmy K on January 11, 2013, 08:37:34 PM
I don't know what the 30 would include.
Jacksonville, FL - I'm sure local climate and altitude matter too. 
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2013, 08:51:06 PM
The OCB says commercial hops are grown between 30 and 52 degrees. The 52 would be inclusive of the Worcestershire hops region in England. I don't know what the 30 would include.

45 - 55 includes the European fields, and that may be the Haas groups viewpoint. I am interested if you tell us more about the Haas Hops Academy. A little envy too.

For Nateo - wine grapes were grown as far north as Scotland, then the Little Ice Age happened.

30-40 would include South Africa, Argentina, Australia, and NZ (the north island, anyway. I'm not sure where they grow hops in NZ).

I've read about people planting wine grapes again in Scotland. I don't think it's really taken off yet.
North end of the south Island. There are towns named Nelson, Riwaka, Matueka so it must be the area, -41.7. Australia is in Tasmania and Victoria, also about that latitude.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: yso191 on January 11, 2013, 09:10:05 PM
The OCB says commercial hops are grown between 30 and 52 degrees. The 52 would be inclusive of the Worcestershire hops region in England. I don't know what the 30 would include.

45 - 55 includes the European fields, and that may be the Haas groups viewpoint. I am interested if you tell us more about the Haas Hops Academy. A little envy too.

For Nateo - wine grapes were grown as far north as Scotland, then the Little Ice Age happened.

The Hops Academy was a well spent couple of days; it was suprisingly informative.  I learned more than I thought I would.  Hop Union also has a Hop & Brew School.  I have not attended, but a close friend did, and another friend is instrumental in organizing it.  Both are very informative.  The Haas Academy has a more professional tone, and very little beer sampling - Hop Union has a more relaxed tone and beer is served all day. http://www.hopunion.com/29_HopBrewSchool.cfm?p8=open
 http://www.barthhaasgroup.com/en/about-us/hops-academy

Great people at both.  The Haas Academy has only one event for all participants, while the Hop Union has two: one for Pro brewers and another for Home Brewers.

I have digital copies of the curriculum if there is something specific you're interested in. 

Steve
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2013, 09:29:51 PM
Thanks Steve, maybe someday if I can swing the trip out there. The bucket list keeps getting longer.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: jeffy on January 11, 2013, 10:52:16 PM
At roughly 35* N. latitude they are significantly out of the band of 45-55 degrees which will result in poor hop cone maturation.  Obviously that would effect flavor, but I doubt that it would ever become in vogue.  Or commercially profitable for that matter.

But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?

Steve

You do know that commercial hops were grown in SF at one time, Sacramento, and Sonoma county? These are in the 37-38 parallel range. The reason they are not grown now is real estate in SF and Sacramento, and wine growing in Sonoma. CA is covered at some length in the Hop Atlas.

They stopped growing hops in Sonoma County around 1960 or a little before due to downy mildew and the other agronomic pressures.  For proof there is this place.

http://www.hopkilnwinery.com/home/

Hey, I made a detour to that winery just because of its name.  They had some hop bines growing outside with fresh (not wet) hops when we were there in October a couple years ago.  Beautiful building.
Title: Re: Hop production in North Carolina
Post by: morticaixavier on January 11, 2013, 11:40:24 PM
At roughly 35* N. latitude they are significantly out of the band of 45-55 degrees which will result in poor hop cone maturation.  Obviously that would effect flavor, but I doubt that it would ever become in vogue.  Or commercially profitable for that matter.

But maybe they are experimenting with varieties that are modified to develop normally outside the prefered band - who knows?

Steve

You do know that commercial hops were grown in SF at one time, Sacramento, and Sonoma county? These are in the 37-38 parallel range. The reason they are not grown now is real estate in SF and Sacramento, and wine growing in Sonoma. CA is covered at some length in the Hop Atlas.

They stopped growing hops in Sonoma County around 1960 or a little before due to downy mildew and the other agronomic pressures.  For proof there is this place.

http://www.hopkilnwinery.com/home/

Hey, I made a detour to that winery just because of its name.  They had some hop bines growing outside with fresh (not wet) hops when we were there in October a couple years ago.  Beautiful building.

pretty good wine as well. They have an un-oaked chardonnay that may be the only chardonnay that I really like.