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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: roguejim on January 10, 2013, 07:58:50 PM

Title: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: roguejim on January 10, 2013, 07:58:50 PM
In terms of aroma, any negatives to dry hopping in primary?
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: redbeerman on January 10, 2013, 08:00:01 PM
Absolutely not!  Just wait until the bulk of fermentation is done.  The CO2 will scrub out the aroma if you dry hop too soon.  I have done this a number of times with great results.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: alcaponejunior on January 10, 2013, 08:04:30 PM
I dry hop in primary with no issues.  I try to wait ten days at least before adding the first hops for dry hopping.  I always make sure the bulk of fermentation is done.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: blatz on January 10, 2013, 08:05:17 PM
In terms of aroma, any negatives to dry hopping in primary?

depends on when in the primary.  there has been a lot of discussion lately about dryhopping while still on the yeast that the yeast binds with the hop oils or something like that. but then there are people like Matt Brynildson that promote starting dryhopping when the gravity is within 1P of completion, so the offgassing CO2 will drive away the oxygen present in the hops (mainly whole leaf I would assume) and I would assume leaving on the primary yeast until you are ready to keg.

I am experimenting now with big dryhop charges in the primary without removing the yeast rather than keg hopping to see where that takes me.  Might still do the latter, but I'm experimenting....
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: redbeerman on January 10, 2013, 09:06:03 PM
Paul, my last imperial red ale, I dryhopped with 4 oz. of various hops (simcoe, amarillo, centennial and something else that i have forgotten) in the primary on the yeast.  The hop aroma was awesome.  I was very pleased with the results.  I have done lesser charges in the past with good results as well.  This was a 5 gallon batch.
Title: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: In The Sand on January 10, 2013, 09:34:53 PM
+1 to all. I let my beer ferment out for 2 wks then start the dry hopping regimen before racking to keg. I use pellet hops. Always have nice aroma and no off flavors.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: mabrungard on January 10, 2013, 10:04:32 PM
Don't bother with a transfer to a Secondary container unless you are going to add another fermentable.  I agree with the sentiment above, dry hopping at the later stage of fermentation in the Primary is the preferred way to go.  Keep the Primary cool and there won't be any problem with autolysis.  Bottle or keg directly from the Primary after the beer has clarified to a large degree.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: blatz on January 10, 2013, 10:05:46 PM
Paul, my last imperial red ale, I dryhopped with 4 oz. of various hops (simcoe, amarillo, centennial and something else that i have forgotten) in the primary on the yeast.  The hop aroma was awesome.  I was very pleased with the results.  I have done lesser charges in the past with good results as well.  This was a 5 gallon batch.

yeah - so far, that has been my experience as well - but I still am not getting that fresh, in your face, huffing on the opened hop bag aroma that I do from keg hopping, but I've only tried this a few times thusfar.  More research is needed...
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: HydraulicSammich on January 10, 2013, 10:30:16 PM
Anyone experienced dry hopping a lager in the primary at 4 weeks, for an additional week.  Maybe let the temp increase from 50 on its own.  Then rack to a keg and lager cold as usual.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: roguejim on January 11, 2013, 07:15:59 AM
Well, I already dry hopped 1 1/2oz Amarillo, plus 1 1/2oz simcoe on day 5 of fermentation.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: erockrph on January 11, 2013, 02:56:53 PM
I've typically added my dry hops at anywhere from 10-14 days from the start of fermentation in the primary. After reading "For the Love of Hops", I am tempted to try adding my dry hops sooner. Stan reports that yeast create some of the aroma compounds that are desirable in dry hopping. I may have to start toying around with doing separate "early" and "late" dry hop additions to see if it brings any added benefit.

Anyone experienced dry hopping a lager in the primary at 4 weeks, for an additional week.  Maybe let the temp increase from 50 on its own.  Then rack to a keg and lager cold as usual.

Yes, and it works great. I did a combined D-rest/dry hop on my "Hoptoberfest" this summer and it was my favorite beer that I've brewed to date.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: pinnah on January 14, 2013, 03:01:24 PM
Wow, interesting to hear about you guys trying dryhopping before fermentation is done. 
I had thought that the "conventional" wisdom was that yeasties tie up and drag hoppy goodness down into the cake...to use the technical terms ::).

Let us know how your trials go. 
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: davidgzach on January 14, 2013, 03:07:10 PM
Wow, interesting to hear about you guys trying dryhopping before fermentation is done. 
I had thought that the "conventional" wisdom was that yeasties tie up and drag hoppy goodness down into the cake...to use the technical terms ::).

Let us know how your trials go.

I always thought it was best to wait until after fermentation was done so you did not lose all of the hop aroma out the airlock with the CO2.......
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: AmandaK on January 14, 2013, 03:09:38 PM
Wow, interesting to hear about you guys trying dryhopping before fermentation is done. 
I had thought that the "conventional" wisdom was that yeasties tie up and drag hoppy goodness down into the cake...to use the technical terms ::).

Let us know how your trials go.

If you read the Hops book, you'll know that there really is no 'conventional wisdom' when it comes to dry hopping. Everyone does it a bit differently and you'll have to work out what works for your system.

PS- Gotta love those technical terms!  :D
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: erockrph on January 14, 2013, 04:14:26 PM
Wow, interesting to hear about you guys trying dryhopping before fermentation is done. 
I had thought that the "conventional" wisdom was that yeasties tie up and drag hoppy goodness down into the cake...to use the technical terms ::).

Let us know how your trials go.

I always thought it was best to wait until after fermentation was done so you did not lose all of the hop aroma out the airlock with the CO2.......

I've heard both these things as well, and that's why I've added my dry hops on the late side in the past. I'm definitely going to try moving to a 2-stage dry-hopping regimen when practical after reading Stan's book, in hopes of catching the best of both worlds.
Title: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: jlo on January 14, 2013, 05:02:57 PM
I'm still working my way through the Hops book.  I have a system that works for me.  It may not be the best way but it works well for me.  I really like the double dry hopping and some of the fruiter flavors I get from the initial dry hops.

I've take to loose pellet dry hopping with ~1 degree Plato left in primary at fermentation temps generally 68F for ales for three days, 50F for lagers for four or five days. 

For ales I then chill to 40F and rack off of the initial dry hops, yeast and trub to a conditioning keg at 40F where I dry hop with pellets in a weighted bag up to 7 days while I carbonate over the same 7 days.


Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: AmandaK on January 14, 2013, 05:42:50 PM
Wow, interesting to hear about you guys trying dryhopping before fermentation is done. 
I had thought that the "conventional" wisdom was that yeasties tie up and drag hoppy goodness down into the cake...to use the technical terms ::).

Let us know how your trials go.

I always thought it was best to wait until after fermentation was done so you did not lose all of the hop aroma out the airlock with the CO2.......

I've heard both these things as well, and that's why I've added my dry hops on the late side in the past. I'm definitely going to try moving to a 2-stage dry-hopping regimen when practical after reading Stan's book, in hopes of catching the best of both worlds.

How are you planning on doing this on a homebrew scale? Commercial brewers can dump out of the conical, but what about us with carboys and pellet hops? My brain is not functioning this Monday morning...
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: erockrph on January 14, 2013, 06:07:41 PM
I've heard both these things as well, and that's why I've added my dry hops on the late side in the past. I'm definitely going to try moving to a 2-stage dry-hopping regimen when practical after reading Stan's book, in hopes of catching the best of both worlds.

How are you planning on doing this on a homebrew scale? Commercial brewers can dump out of the conical, but what about us with carboys and pellet hops? My brain is not functioning this Monday morning...

I'm probably not going to bother trying to remove my initial pellets. For example, my old way I would probably add 2-3 oz of pellets at day 10, then bottle at day 17. I'm probably going to try something more like 1.5 ounces at day 8, then another 1.5 ounces at day 12, then bottle day 15 or 16.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: AmandaK on January 14, 2013, 07:00:38 PM
I've heard both these things as well, and that's why I've added my dry hops on the late side in the past. I'm definitely going to try moving to a 2-stage dry-hopping regimen when practical after reading Stan's book, in hopes of catching the best of both worlds.

How are you planning on doing this on a homebrew scale? Commercial brewers can dump out of the conical, but what about us with carboys and pellet hops? My brain is not functioning this Monday morning...

I'm probably not going to bother trying to remove my initial pellets. For example, my old way I would probably add 2-3 oz of pellets at day 10, then bottle at day 17. I'm probably going to try something more like 1.5 ounces at day 8, then another 1.5 ounces at day 12, then bottle day 15 or 16.

What temperature are you doing this at? The reason I ask is that I tend to get vegetal aromas/flavors when I dry hop for 7-8 days. I'm much better around 3-5 days.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: erockrph on January 14, 2013, 07:45:01 PM
I generally dry hop at 68F. The only time I've ever noticed any vegetal notes is when I went way too overboard on dry hops in an IIPA. But that was literally to the point where the hops stained the beer a muddy greenish color and I got quite a bit of pellet residue in my bottles. Even then, after a couple months of lagering that beer has turned around nicely.

FWIW - I think the vegetal thing varies from person to person. What I perceive as pleasantly herbal/grassy/hoppy may seem vegetal/grassy to someone else.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: AmandaK on January 15, 2013, 02:08:42 PM
FWIW - I think the vegetal thing varies from person to person. What I perceive as pleasantly herbal/grassy/hoppy may seem vegetal/grassy to someone else.

Totally agree. I'm way more sensitive to some things than others.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: tomsawyer on January 15, 2013, 05:06:56 PM
I've been described as universally insensitive.  It didn't bother me a bit.

I was inspired by this thread and added my dry hops to a pale ale thats just finishing up fermentation.  I brought it upstairs where its warmer so it could finish completely, theres still a bit of foam on top and the hop pellets are floating in it.  I'm going to let it sit a few days then maybe add another charge and keg a couple days after that.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: pinnah on January 19, 2013, 06:43:16 PM
OK, with regards to dry hopping before fermentation is done. 

If there are benefits to dry hopping as fermentation is winding down,
what downsides would there be to adding hops earlier during active churning fermentation as well?

...other than potentially wasting hops?

Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: tygo on January 19, 2013, 06:46:02 PM

what downsides would there be to adding hops earlier during active churning fermentation as well?

...other than potentially wasting hops?

I think just wasting the hops.  The aroma you're looking for will probably be mostly scrubbed out by the venting CO2.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: erockrph on January 19, 2013, 06:56:49 PM

what downsides would there be to adding hops earlier during active churning fermentation as well?

...other than potentially wasting hops?

I think just wasting the hops.  The aroma you're looking for will probably be mostly scrubbed out by the venting CO2.

I'm not sold on this. If CO2 really scrubbed out hop aroma to any great extent, then you wouldn't get much aroma from late boil additions. I dry hopped an IPA early once (like maybe day 7 or so), when the krausen was still over an inch thick. The aroma in the finished beer was great, and even 4 or 5 months later still had a great hop aroma. I say go for it.
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: pinnah on January 20, 2013, 12:59:10 PM
what downsides would there be to adding hops earlier during active churning fermentation as well?
...other than potentially wasting hops?
I say go for it.

Well I did it;  added an ounce of pellets during the peak of churning ferment.

I ferment in 6 gallon glass, and it was fascinating to watch.  There was 2-3 inches of loose fluffy already yellow stained krausen foam on top.  The pellets fell down through all this and were floating on top of the beer.  With all the churning, they soon started to break apart and get mixed in.

It was interesting, it seemed like fermentation bumped up a bit and there was a reaction akin to wort threatening to boil over at first hop addition during a boil.  With all the churning, and yeasties and cold break chunks exploding off the carboy floor, the pellets were soon dissolved. Some green looked like it got folded up into the krausen.  I did not notice a difference in the aroma exiting.

Anyone here know anything about the potential desirable influences of dryhopping during fermentation?
Title: Re: Dry Hopping in Primary...why not?
Post by: tomsawyer on January 20, 2013, 09:12:46 PM
I'm doing it too and the hops ride up in the krausen, maybe you get better interaction/exraction since there is movement in the fermentor.