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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: tschmidlin on January 31, 2013, 10:57:38 PM

Title: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on January 31, 2013, 10:57:38 PM
I've got a pump running glycol from the chiller and it makes a weird buzzing noise.  One pump does it and one doesn't, so clearly something is wrong.  I thought that there might be some air in the head, so I loosened the nut to vent it and the pump quieted right down - success!  Unfortunately when I tightened the nut again the noise picked right back up.

Can anyone tell me what is going on and how to fix it?

Here is a pic of the head zoomed in for part numbers, the nut is on the left.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kL8dgaJpuYM/UQr2ib3-_eI/AAAAAAAAAdU/UJ1cclLK0l8/s640/2013-01-31)
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: morticaixavier on January 31, 2013, 11:10:00 PM
Totally uninformed and without specific knowledge but if bleeding air from the head made the noise stop but then it started again could there be a pin whole somewhere in the lines from the glycol storage unit that is adding air on that one pump?

Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on January 31, 2013, 11:43:31 PM
I forgot to mention - when I loosened the nut and it was quiet, I could see a lot of air bubbles in the stream that was being returned to glycol reservoir.  When I tightened the nut and the noise started, the air bubbles in the stream disappeared.  :-\
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: Jimmy K on February 01, 2013, 03:01:04 AM
Obviously the answer is to leave the nut loose.  ;)
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: gmac on February 01, 2013, 03:03:56 AM
Obviously the answer is to leave the nut loose.  ;)

I know I whine when my nuts are tight.

Sorry.

Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 01, 2013, 04:53:08 AM
Obviously the answer is to leave the nut loose.  ;)
Obviously :)

But I am worried that if I leave it loose it will vibrate even looser, and that's when the glycol starts shooting out all over the place.  You don't want to have to clean up a large glycol spill, it is a PITA and that stuff is expensive!
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: Jimmy K on February 01, 2013, 01:51:01 PM
Obviously the answer is to leave the nut loose.  ;)
Obviously :)

But I am worried that if I leave it loose it will vibrate even looser, and that's when the glycol starts shooting out all over the place.  You don't want to have to clean up a large glycol spill, it is a PITA and that stuff is expensive!

Duct tape.  ;D
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: Vin S on February 01, 2013, 02:35:17 PM
I think you might have a kink or blockage in your system. Because opening vent you relieved pressure making pump turn free. I would move and squeeze the lines and see if you hear a change in the pump.
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: dak0415 on February 01, 2013, 03:26:16 PM
Your pump does not look like a March pump, but I have heard that sometimes the thrust washer is left off of the impeller spindle allowing the impeller to rattle around a bit.  Make sure all the pieces/parts are in place inside the pump head.
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 01, 2013, 04:17:44 PM
Can you describe the noise? A whine? Or a growl?
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: Jimmy K on February 01, 2013, 04:49:51 PM
Can you describe the noise? A whine? Or a growl?

Contract Michael Winslow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH-80fXjM6s) to do an impression!
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 01, 2013, 05:06:19 PM
Can you describe the noise? A whine? Or a growl?
Buzzing.  Its weird.

I think you might have a kink or blockage in your system. Because opening vent you relieved pressure making pump turn free. I would move and squeeze the lines and see if you hear a change in the pump.
Thanks, I'll give that a try.  It seems to flow pretty well though.
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: bluesman on February 01, 2013, 05:46:51 PM
I suggest ear plugs or a sledge hammer. One or the other would work.  ;)

Sorry Tom...but I just couldn't help myself.

On a serious note...have you tried contacting the manufacturer, this is assuming they are designed in an American speaking business. Noted: assembled in Mexico
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 01, 2013, 06:45:40 PM
Can you describe the noise? A whine? Or a growl?
Buzzing.  Its weird.

I think you might have a kink or blockage in your system. Because opening vent you relieved pressure making pump turn free. I would move and squeeze the lines and see if you hear a change in the pump.
Thanks, I'll give that a try.  It seems to flow pretty well though.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

says the pump after I move the hose all around trying to find a kink or blockage.   :'(
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 01, 2013, 06:46:29 PM
I suggest ear plugs or a sledge hammer. One or the other would work.  ;)

Sorry Tom...but I just couldn't help myself.

On a serious note...have you tried contacting the manufacturer, this is assuming they are designed in an American speaking business. Noted: assembled in Mexico
Ear plugs - definitely.  Sledge hammer . . . maybe!
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 01, 2013, 06:57:11 PM
Have you considered cavitation as a noise source? Make sure the inlet is free of kinks or obstructions. Can you mount the pump lower, so that there is more head on the inlet?
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: Vin S on February 01, 2013, 07:11:37 PM
Does the motor have brushes? Or a place to put a drop of oil? Sometimes taking the brushes out and hitting them on sandpaper cleans the contact and helps. Is there a capacitor on the motor that could be going ( if so switch between motors and see if it still makes noise) Is the one making noise running hotter or if you can turn shaft harder.  Good luck
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 01, 2013, 07:13:28 PM
Have you considered cavitation as a noise source? Make sure the inlet is free of kinks or obstructions. Can you mount the pump lower, so that there is more head on the inlet?
I'll check it out.  It is definitely not working right (not chilling) despite the good flow of glycol through the system I saw last week.  I'm going to need to take it apart again, and don't have time today.  I might not have time next week either, we start pouring in our second location next Thursday and there is a lot to do.  Including replacing the ballast on a fluorescent light, which is somehow my job ::)
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 01, 2013, 07:15:13 PM
Does the motor have brushes? Or a place to put a drop of oil? Sometimes taking the brushes out and hitting them on sandpaper cleans the contact and helps. Is there a capacitor on the motor that could be going ( if so switch between motors and see if it still makes noise) Is the one making noise running hotter or if you can turn shaft harder.  Good luck
These are good ideas, but because the noise goes away when I loosen the nut on the pump head I figure it is something in between the inlet and outlet of the glycol system.
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: redbeerman on February 01, 2013, 08:54:36 PM
Is the noise coming from the motor or the pump?  From what I can gather, the pump is a Procon Model# 111A100F11AA.  It does not come with a motor.  You have to attach one separately.  Are you operating it above 150F?  That's it's upper limit.

•Carbonator-Mount Rotary Vane Pumps
•These positive displacement pumps run quietly, have low vibration and pulsation characteristics, and are virtually maintenance-free. They can handle many liquids with low lubricating characteristics at relatively high pressures. Flow remains constant over entire pressure range. Most models are self-priming (except 6XE92 and 6XE95). Metal-to-metal contact is eliminated, resulting in low starting torque. 303 stainless steel shaft, stainless steel rotors, and built-in relief valve. Pumps mount on NEMA 56C frame motors (adapter kit sold separately) for a coupling drive, or can be attached to a NEMA 48YZ motor with a V-band clamp. High-temperature plastic internal bypass valve eliminates the need for an external relief valve on all models except 6XE92 and 6XE95. (6XE82 and 6XE84 have internal solid-brass bypass valves. Brass and stainless steel also available on all other models; call your local branch. ) For pumping water and moderately aggressive liquids, carbonated water for beverage dispensers, ultra-filtration, deionized water, reverse osmosis systems, espresso coffee machines, lubrication spraying, insecticide spraying, soap dispensing, distilled water, fire-resistant fluids, hydraulic oil, steam cleaning machines with clean water, cooling circulation, pressure booster, atomizing/misting humidification systems, laboratory pumps, pilot plants, boiler feeds, textile machines, car wash machines, water purification, and fire jockey pumps.
•Max. operating pressure: 200 psi
•Max. fluid temperature: 150°F
•Relief valves preset to 250 psi
•All pumps NSF rated, except 6XE82 and 6EX84
•This item has been restricted from sale in the following states: [CA, VT]
•California Proposition 65 Warning: This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.

Rotary Vane Pump, Inlet/Outlet NPTF 3/8 In, 100 GPH, Relief Pressure Max 250 PSI, Brass Construction, With Filter Strainer, External Relief Not Required, By-Pass, Carbonator Clamp Style Mounting, 100 Mesh Filter, Max Temp 150 F, Built-In Relief Valve, Relief Valve PSI Setting 200, 303 Stainless Steel Shaft, GPH @ 50 PSI 102, @ 150 PSI 98, HP @ 50 PSI 1/4, @ 150 PSI 1/3, Min Flow 94 GPH, Max Flow 112 GPH
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 02, 2013, 06:03:44 AM
Wow, thanks for all that red!

It is pushing glycol, the temp is 30-40F.  I would guess it is coming from the pump and not the motor, since it gets quiet when the nut on the pump is loosened.  I suppose it could be from the motor though.

Like I said, I need to take it apart and figure it out.  I'll let you know what I come up with.
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: punatic on February 02, 2013, 08:14:59 AM
Perhaps the impeller is contacting the housing?  When you loosen the nut it creates enough clearance for the impeller to turn freely... but that also allows air in.  Check the seals on the housing.  They may be worn and allow overtightening, moving the housing into the impeller's rotational path.
Title: Re: pump noise
Post by: tschmidlin on February 02, 2013, 09:51:35 PM
Maybe - I'll check that out too.