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General Category => Kegging and Bottling => Topic started by: DW on February 01, 2013, 11:58:21 PM

Title: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: DW on February 01, 2013, 11:58:21 PM
What's the difference between a firestone and cornelius keg?  They look the same, but the posts are different. 
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Jimmy K on February 02, 2013, 12:15:29 AM
Edit: Pay no attention, the following answer is mostly wrong... Read down

Different manufacturers. Corny kegs were mostly used by Pepsi. Firestone were prefered by Coke.  The Corny kegs have ball locks and are generally more popular and a little more expensive (because supplies are running out and these are what many people have).  Both work just fine, but you'll want to pick one style and stick with it for your homebrewery.

Firestone kegs are also called pin locks - although since ball locks are more popular some companies are replacing the posts with ball lock posts.

Other differences - Corny kegs have a pressure relief valve in the lid. On pin lock you must press the gas valve.
Pin lock kegs are slightly shorter and wider than corny kegs.

My LHBS owner loves pin lock kegs because the gas and liquid posts are easier to distinguish. On ball locks they are different diameters, but very close.
Title: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: denny on February 02, 2013, 12:23:41 AM
I'll have to check, but I think I've got some Firestone ball locks.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: a10t2 on February 02, 2013, 12:30:52 AM
Both work just fine, but you'll want to pick one style and stick with it for your homebrewery.

Given the prices of kegs nowadays, it's probably less expensive to put threaded fittings on all your lines and buy whichever you can get for less at the time.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: The Professor on February 02, 2013, 03:21:10 AM
I'll have to check, but I think I've got some Firestone ball locks.

I definitely have some Firestone ball locks...they were some of the first kegs I acquired 20 some odd years ago.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Jimmy K on February 02, 2013, 03:49:31 AM
I'll have to check, but I think I've got some Firestone ball locks.

I definitely have some Firestone ball locks...they were some of the first kegs I acquired 20 some odd years ago.
Maybe Firestone made both
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: euge on February 02, 2013, 05:28:44 AM
I also have some firestone ball-locks. Always wondered if some of them were originally pin-locks that have been converted?
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Jimmy K on February 02, 2013, 12:39:37 PM
I also have some firestone ball-locks. Always wondered if some of them were originally pin-locks that have been converted?
There are lots of 'converted' ball locks on the internet. I've seen pallets of them at homebrew shops, but that's a recent response to the short supply of ball lock kegs. I'm not sure about ones purchased 5 or more years ago.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 02, 2013, 03:22:46 PM
What's the difference between a firestone and cornelius keg?  They look the same, but the posts are different.

I think you mean that these are ball locks, but the posts have detail differences.

For ball locks, you need to know that there were several manufactures, Firestone (I know I have some of those), Spartanberg, Cornelius and John Wood (never seen those). There are at least 3 different posts designs for corny kegs, Northern Brewer calls those A,B,C type. Williams Brewing also has a breakdown by manufacturer.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2011/08/choosing-the-correct-keg-parts/
Pictures
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=keg+post+assembly
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/MALE-POSTS-POST-PARTS-C297.aspx



Pin locks are shorter and wider, I do have one that was converted to ball lock.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 02, 2013, 03:44:13 PM
Jeff is correct.  There are different manufacturers of ball locks.

The posts will be different in the threading as it attaches to the keg, the poppets are different, the pressure relief valves are also different in some cases.

The posts have different overall heights, but the ball lock fittings are all the same.

Nowadays, with the universal poppet, some of the differences are less important.  But, if you take them all apart at once you need to get the right posts and poppets back to the right kegs or they don't fit and seal correctly.  I know from experience.

Converted pin-locks will be a different height and width from ball lock kegs.  I believe shorter and squatter.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: euge on February 02, 2013, 04:28:25 PM
I only do one keg at a time!
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 02, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
I only do one keg at a time!

From learning the hard way, me too.

Euge - like the tagline from Feynman.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: denny on February 02, 2013, 05:23:43 PM
If you're thinking about switching posts, Mike Dixon has some excellent info about thread sizes here...

http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon/KegThreadSizes.htm
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: DW on February 03, 2013, 08:07:38 PM
I got my kegs from kegconnection.com.  As I was looking at replacement post parts I noticed that they sale two types of "ball locks", which are firestone and cornelius.  But you guys are mostly saying that only cornelius makes ball locks.  Check out this website:          http://stores.kegconnection.com/Categories.bok?category=*Parts%3AKeg+Parts%3APosts%2FPoppets%3APosts%2C+Ball+Lock           

One of my posts, which I'm assuming is Firestone has 12 points.  My other keg looks to be cornelius.  But the pressure relief valves are the same, as are the lids.  Maybe I have keg that was converted and still using firestone posts.  I really don't understand this stuff very well. 
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: villagebrewer on February 17, 2013, 12:41:44 AM
What do most homebrewers use... ball or pin lock soda kegs?  What would you recommend I purchase?
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 17, 2013, 01:36:44 AM
What do most homebrewers use... ball or pin lock soda kegs?  What would you recommend I purchase?

Most use ball lock. That was due to Pepsi going to bag in a box for the syrup early so those were available.

Pin lock are cheaper. Chose one type and stick with it.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: jeffy on February 17, 2013, 02:34:53 AM
I have both.  I like the positive feel and easy identification of pin lock posts, but the ball lock kegs are more universally accepted and are taller and thinner so more fit into my freezer.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: denny on February 17, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
What do most homebrewers use... ball or pin lock soda kegs?  What would you recommend I purchase?

I think ball lock are more common.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Jimmy K on February 18, 2013, 01:46:40 PM
What do most homebrewers use... ball or pin lock soda kegs?  What would you recommend I purchase?

If you know other homebrewers that keg, you might want to use what they use. If you don't, then it doesn't matter much. Pin locks are usually much cheaper. All of the brand new kegs being sold are ball lock and eventually that may be all that is available.  If you get threaded disconnects though, it isn't hard to swap them out.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 18, 2013, 03:21:29 PM
I believe ball locks have typically been more common.  But pin locks are used by a lot of people, too.

I would say the most important thing is to be sure that all of your kegs are the same, so that you don't need different quick disconnects.

There is no specific benefit to either pin or ball lock that I am aware of.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 18, 2013, 04:28:53 PM
I believe ball locks have typically been more common.  But pin locks are used by a lot of people, too.

I would say the most important thing is to be sure that all of your kegs are the same, so that you don't need different quick disconnects.

There is no specific benefit to either pin or ball lock that I am aware of.

You can't get the in/out mixed up on pin locks.

Ball locks are taller with a smaller diameter (that geometry thing) so more can fit in a keezer.

Pin locks are made out of a thicker gage steel, and are harder to dent, but they are a little heavier.

So there are differences, it is up to someone to decide if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: mmitchem on February 18, 2013, 04:37:00 PM
I have all sorts of different kegs with all sorts of different connects on them. I have some coke keg that are traditionally pin lock with ball lock connects and vice versa. Can't say that one works better than the other, I just got what was freely available at the time. Sometimes it leads to a few Franken-kegs!
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 18, 2013, 05:48:36 PM
Pin locks are made out of a thicker gage steel, and are harder to dent, but they are a little heavier.

This I was completely unaware of.
Title: Re: cornelius vs firestone
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 18, 2013, 06:24:22 PM
Pin locks are made out of a thicker gage steel, and are harder to dent, but they are a little heavier.

This I was completely unaware of.
The guy at the LHBS laid a pin lock on its side and give it a stomp, and said try doing that with a ball lock. He then explained it is made from heavier gage steel.