Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 07:21:11 PM

Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 07:21:11 PM
Looking for ideas on my Oktoberfest lager yeast choice. interested in any pros / cons and recommended yeast. i have a controlled chamber, and the 12# grain, 5.8ga, 90-minute boil recipe is 50% vienna, 34% munich, and 17% german pilsner. Hop schedule is magnum (.33oz 60min), and hallertauer late additions (.75oz 20min, .75 oz 10min).

my first thought was wyeast 2633, however haven't used it and i'm open to suggestions.

thanks
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Pinski on February 21, 2013, 07:40:27 PM
2633 is fantastic. If you can do a split batch, do so and compare 2633 to something else your curious about.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: a10t2 on February 21, 2013, 07:42:34 PM
For malty lagers I use W206. (Wyeast 2206, maybe White Labs 830?)

Edit: According to Kris England's chart it's WLP820.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: bluesman on February 21, 2013, 07:44:59 PM
I really like WLP833....and 830 is a close second.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 07:52:17 PM
For malty lagers I use W206. (Wyeast 2206, maybe White Labs 830?)

Edit: According to Kris England's chart it's WLP820.

wyeast 2206 - any issues with burning up the diacetyl ? they even list it as high producer of D.

just curious
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 08:00:41 PM
I really like WLP833....and 830 is a close second.

WLp 833 was my second choice...any grist consideration, chloride to sulfate ratio, or other considerations with this yeast? planning mash at 1.5qt per lb, 154F for 75 minutes.
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 21, 2013, 08:03:43 PM
For malty lagers I use W206. (Wyeast 2206, maybe White Labs 830?)

Edit: According to Kris England's chart it's WLP820.

wyeast 2206 - any issues with burning up the diacetyl ? they even list it as high producer of D.

just curious

2206 is my go to lager yeast because I not only love the malty flavor it gives, but I have never gotten diacetyl from it.  I think it's the most reliable, well behaved lager yeast I've used.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 08:06:52 PM
For malty lagers I use W206. (Wyeast 2206, maybe White Labs 830?)

Edit: According to Kris England's chart it's WLP820.

wyeast 2206 - any issues with burning up the diacetyl ? they even list it as high producer of D.

just curious

2206 is my go to lager yeast because I not only love the malty flavor it gives, but I have never gotten diacetyl from it.  I think it's the most reliable, well behaved lager yeast I've used.

you ferment on the low end of the 46-58F range...46-48F?
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 21, 2013, 08:07:51 PM
For malty lagers I use W206. (Wyeast 2206, maybe White Labs 830?)

Edit: According to Kris England's chart it's WLP820.

wyeast 2206 - any issues with burning up the diacetyl ? they even list it as high producer of D.

just curious

2206 is my go to lager yeast because I not only love the malty flavor it gives, but I have never gotten diacetyl from it.  I think it's the most reliable, well behaved lager yeast I've used.

you ferment on the low end of the 46-58F range...46-48F?

Yep.  My aim is to keep it below 50.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: erockrph on February 21, 2013, 08:08:42 PM
I used 2633 on my fest last year and was very happy with the results. I'm still just getting my feet wet in the world of lagers, but I will definitely be going back to 2633 again. I brewed mine using a swamp cooler in the middle of August, but it was still very clean despite a bit of temperature fluctuation.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 08:13:16 PM
wow good info..its going to be hard to choose. perhaps it's time to do my first double batch and split it between two yeasts and see how each turns out.

double the fun..double the finished product  :P
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 21, 2013, 08:17:17 PM
I really like 2206 for my lagers too, however I side towards 2633 for my Oktoberfests.  I hear a double batch calling you!   ;)

Dave
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
since we are on the oktoberfest - i have a water chemistry question. using the munich water profile inbru n water, i need about 300ppm of bicarb. my well water is plenty high in bicarb, but also has too much sodium at 114ppm. therefore, i must use distilled water and add my minerals.

too bump my bicarb up, am I adding calcium carb? when i add the amount of calcium carb necessary to get bicarb ppm right, my PH shoots up - requiring lactic acid to drop the PH in range. however the lactic acid addition also drops the bicarb. how do i manage this..should i be adding acid malt to manage the ph and skip the lactic acid addition so i can just use moderate amount of calcium carb to hit the desired bicarb ppm? 

for magnesium, what product should i be using..i only see magnesium flakes out there for sale..is this what i use?
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: morticaixavier on February 21, 2013, 08:44:43 PM
since we are on the oktoberfest - i have a water chemistry question. using the munich water profile inbru n water, i need about 300ppm of bicarb. my well water is plenty high in bicarb, but also has too much sodium at 114ppm. therefore, i must use distilled water and add my minerals.

too bump my bicarb up, am I adding calcium carb? when i add the amount of calcium carb necessary to get bicarb ppm right, my PH shoots up - requiring lactic acid to drop the PH in range. however the lactic acid addition also drops the bicarb. how do i manage this..should i be adding acid malt to manage the ph and skip the lactic acid addition so i can just use moderate amount of calcium carb to hit the desired bicarb ppm? 

for magnesium, what product should i be using..i only see magnesium flakes out there for sale..is this what i use?

Acid malt is just malt sprayed with lactic acid, so that's not going to help with the bicarb. don't know the answer to this though

magnesium, use epsom salts.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 08:47:46 PM
since we are on the oktoberfest - i have a water chemistry question. using the munich water profile inbru n water, i need about 300ppm of bicarb. my well water is plenty high in bicarb, but also has too much sodium at 114ppm. therefore, i must use distilled water and add my minerals.

too bump my bicarb up, am I adding calcium carb? when i add the amount of calcium carb necessary to get bicarb ppm right, my PH shoots up - requiring lactic acid to drop the PH in range. however the lactic acid addition also drops the bicarb. how do i manage this..should i be adding acid malt to manage the ph and skip the lactic acid addition so i can just use moderate amount of calcium carb to hit the desired bicarb ppm? 

for magnesium, what product should i be using..i only see magnesium flakes out there for sale..is this what i use?

Acid malt is just malt sprayed with lactic acid, so that's not going to help with the bicarb. don't know the answer to this though

magnesium, use epsom salts.

epsom salts - same calculation (1 for 1 substitute) used in bru n water for the magnesium addition?
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: morticaixavier on February 21, 2013, 08:58:40 PM
since we are on the oktoberfest - i have a water chemistry question. using the munich water profile inbru n water, i need about 300ppm of bicarb. my well water is plenty high in bicarb, but also has too much sodium at 114ppm. therefore, i must use distilled water and add my minerals.

too bump my bicarb up, am I adding calcium carb? when i add the amount of calcium carb necessary to get bicarb ppm right, my PH shoots up - requiring lactic acid to drop the PH in range. however the lactic acid addition also drops the bicarb. how do i manage this..should i be adding acid malt to manage the ph and skip the lactic acid addition so i can just use moderate amount of calcium carb to hit the desired bicarb ppm? 

for magnesium, what product should i be using..i only see magnesium flakes out there for sale..is this what i use?

Acid malt is just malt sprayed with lactic acid, so that's not going to help with the bicarb. don't know the answer to this though

magnesium, use epsom salts.

epsom salts - same calculation (1 for 1 substitute) used in bru n water for the magnesium addition?

I don't remember cause I never bother with Magnesium, but I THINK it's set up to use Epsom Salts as the magnesium addition yes.
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 21, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
since we are on the oktoberfest - i have a water chemistry question. using the munich water profile inbru n water, i need about 300ppm of bicarb. my well water is plenty high in bicarb, but also has too much sodium at 114ppm. therefore, i must use distilled water and add my minerals.

too bump my bicarb up, am I adding calcium carb? when i add the amount of calcium carb necessary to get bicarb ppm right, my PH shoots up - requiring lactic acid to drop the PH in range. however the lactic acid addition also drops the bicarb. how do i manage this..should i be adding acid malt to manage the ph and skip the lactic acid addition so i can just use moderate amount of calcium carb to hit the desired bicarb ppm? 

for magnesium, what product should i be using..i only see magnesium flakes out there for sale..is this what i use?

I think it's unlikely you need to add Mg.  The grain should supply plenty, but I'll leave it to smarter people to confirm that.  Also, you might consider using the color/flavor profiles rather than a city profile. 
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 21, 2013, 09:02:43 PM
since we are on the oktoberfest - i have a water chemistry question. using the munich water profile inbru n water, i need about 300ppm of bicarb. my well water is plenty high in bicarb, but also has too much sodium at 114ppm. therefore, i must use distilled water and add my minerals.

too bump my bicarb up, am I adding calcium carb? when i add the amount of calcium carb necessary to get bicarb ppm right, my PH shoots up - requiring lactic acid to drop the PH in range. however the lactic acid addition also drops the bicarb. how do i manage this..should i be adding acid malt to manage the ph and skip the lactic acid addition so i can just use moderate amount of calcium carb to hit the desired bicarb ppm? 

for magnesium, what product should i be using..i only see magnesium flakes out there for sale..is this what i use?

Acid malt is just malt sprayed with lactic acid, so that's not going to help with the bicarb. don't know the answer to this though

magnesium, use epsom salts.

epsom salts - same calculation (1 for 1 substitute) used in bru n water for the magnesium addition?

I don't remember cause I never bother with Magnesium, but I THINK it's set up to use Epsom Salts as the magnesium addition yes.

If you use Epsom you need to account for the sodium it adds, too.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 21, 2013, 09:16:26 PM
Munich was known for dark beers before water chemistry was figured out. Use the amber malty profile. With your grain bill you don't want that much alkalinity, so amber malty.

Did a good on last year using 833.

You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: yugamrap on February 21, 2013, 09:32:19 PM
I've had good results with WY2308, WLP833, and WLP830 but I think I like WY2206 best.
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 21, 2013, 09:46:59 PM
You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.

Thanks for the correction, Jeff.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 21, 2013, 10:06:22 PM
Munich was known for dark beers before water chemistry was figured out. Use the amber malty profile. With your grain bill you don't want that much alkalinity, so amber malty.

Did a good on last year using 833.

You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.

good god thanks for that profile suggestion..i couldn't come up with anyway to hit the munich. using amber malty and i'm all set.ive never used magnesium, so we will stick to that plan and let it ride as is.

thanks again
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 22, 2013, 03:25:13 PM
Munich was known for dark beers before water chemistry was figured out. Use the amber malty profile. With your grain bill you don't want that much alkalinity, so amber malty.

Did a good on last year using 833.

You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.

is 154F the most appropriate mash temp you would use for an oktoberfest? thinking i'm going with 2206 for my yeast, and with a 154F mash, beer smith calculates FG of 1.014.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 22, 2013, 04:08:27 PM
Munich was known for dark beers before water chemistry was figured out. Use the amber malty profile. With your grain bill you don't want that much alkalinity, so amber malty.

Did a good on last year using 833.

You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.

You have to decide, as I did a Hochkurz double decoction.

is 154F the most appropriate mash temp you would use for an oktoberfest? thinking i'm going with 2206 for my yeast, and with a 154F mash, beer smith calculates FG of 1.014.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 22, 2013, 04:46:31 PM
Munich was known for dark beers before water chemistry was figured out. Use the amber malty profile. With your grain bill you don't want that much alkalinity, so amber malty.

Did a good on last year using 833.

You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.

is 154F the most appropriate mash temp you would use for an oktoberfest? thinking i'm going with 2206 for my yeast, and with a 154F mash, beer smith calculates FG of 1.014.

154ish sounds good to me.  Don't worry too much about what Beersmith predicts for FG.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 22, 2013, 06:22:27 PM
Munich was known for dark beers before water chemistry was figured out. Use the amber malty profile. With your grain bill you don't want that much alkalinity, so amber malty.

Did a good on last year using 833.

You don't need to add Mg, it will come from the mash. If you want to add, use Epsom salts MgSO4. No Na in Epsom salts.

is 154F the most appropriate mash temp you would use for an oktoberfest? thinking i'm going with 2206 for my yeast, and with a 154F mash, beer smith calculates FG of 1.014.

154ish sounds good to me.  Don't worry too much about what Beersmith predicts for FG.

i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform. 
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 22, 2013, 06:38:30 PM
i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.

I considered that for the doppelbock I'm doing tomorrow.  I think I'm too lazy....er, pragmatic....to really do it, though.  We'll see what tomorrow brings....
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: redbeerman on February 22, 2013, 08:10:58 PM
I use WLP833 (getting back to the original question).  I like the malt profile it leaves.  Also makes a good starter for my doppelbock.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 22, 2013, 08:46:41 PM
I use WLP833 (getting back to the original question).  I like the malt profile it leaves.  Also makes a good starter for my doppelbock.

have you used another? any compare and contrast highlights you noticed?
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 22, 2013, 10:59:03 PM
i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.

I considered that for the doppelbock I'm doing tomorrow.  I think I'm too lazy....er, pragmatic....to really do it, though.  We'll see what tomorrow brings....

C'mon guys, go for it!   ;D
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 22, 2013, 11:01:09 PM


i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.
[/quote]

One piece of advice is to pull more than you think you should for the first decoction.  I still have to force myself to take more out so I can get to my next step.  Make sure you have a pot of boiling water on hand as well..... ;)

Good luck!

Dave
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: bboy9000 on February 23, 2013, 12:41:52 AM
For malty lagers I use W206. (Wyeast 2206, maybe White Labs 830?)

Edit: According to Kris England's chart it's WLP820.

wyeast 2206 - any issues with burning up the diacetyl ? they even list it as high producer of D.

just curious

2206 is my go to lager yeast because I not only love the malty flavor it gives, but I have never gotten diacetyl from it.  I think it's the most reliable, well behaved lager yeast I've used.

I used Wy2206 and the Oktoberfest was pretty good.  I thought I could detect some diacetyl but none of my friends could.  This was my first and only lager attempt as I don't have an ideal place to ferment a lager. I used a Mr. Beer fermentor so I could ferment it in my refrigerator.  It fermented around 47F and lagered for two months at 37F.  Probably not ideal temps so a little diacetyl wasn't surprising.  Overall it was a good beer and if I ever get a thermostat for my deep freeze I'll use 2206 on another Oktoberfest.

EDIT: I also didn't make a starter as I thought a smack pack would provide enough yeast for a little over 2 gallons.  May explain the diacetyl I thought I detected.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 23, 2013, 02:01:43 AM


i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.

One piece of advice is to pull more than you think you should for the first decoction.  I still have to force myself to take more out so I can get to my next step.  Make sure you have a pot of boiling water on hand as well..... ;)

Good luck!

Dave
[/quote]

im not pulling mash and heating..i'm infusing with water to reach my next temp step....easier and more practical for my setup.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: redbeerman on February 23, 2013, 03:58:01 PM
I use WLP833 (getting back to the original question).  I like the malt profile it leaves.  Also makes a good starter for my doppelbock.

have you used another? any compare and contrast highlights you noticed?

I have used WLP820 and 830 as well.  820 was OK but does not attenuate as much as 833, 830 attenuates a bit too much for the style IMO.
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 23, 2013, 09:24:21 PM


i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.

One piece of advice is to pull more than you think you should for the first decoction.  I still have to force myself to take more out so I can get to my next step.  Make sure you have a pot of boiling water on hand as well..... ;)

Good luck!

Dave

im not pulling mash and heating..i'm infusing with water to reach my next temp step....easier and more practical for my setup.
[/quote]

Cool, but then it's just a double infusion, not double decoction.... :)
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 24, 2013, 01:41:36 AM


i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.

One piece of advice is to pull more than you think you should for the first decoction.  I still have to force myself to take more out so I can get to my next step.  Make sure you have a pot of boiling water on hand as well..... ;)

Good luck!

Dave

im not pulling mash and heating..i'm infusing with water to reach my next temp step....easier and more practical for my setup.

Cool, but then it's just a double infusion, not double decoction.... :)
[/quote]

Ok technically accurate...but from Kai's report, it's the same outcome isn't it?
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 24, 2013, 08:21:58 PM


i may give the Hochkurz double decoction a try with the step hot water infusion procedure..seems reasonably straight forward and simple to perform.

One piece of advice is to pull more than you think you should for the first decoction.  I still have to force myself to take more out so I can get to my next step.  Make sure you have a pot of boiling water on hand as well..... ;)

Good luck!

Dave

im not pulling mash and heating..i'm infusing with water to reach my next temp step....easier and more practical for my setup.

Cool, but then it's just a double infusion, not double decoction.... :)

Ok technically accurate...but from Kai's report, it's the same outcome isn't it?
[/quote]

Just busting your stones!  Infusion-wise it is the same. But pulling decoctions definitely changes the character of the beer.
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 24, 2013, 09:17:14 PM
But pulling decoctions definitely changes the character of the beer.

Uh.....maybe....
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 25, 2013, 12:13:57 AM
But pulling decoctions definitely changes the character of the beer.

Uh.....maybe....

Uh oh, I see a decoction debate coming! 
Title: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: denny on February 25, 2013, 12:15:29 AM
But pulling decoctions definitely changes the character of the beer.

Uh.....maybe....

Uh oh, I see a decoction debate coming!  Dennny

No debate.....I know what I believe and everyone else is free to be wrong....;)
Title: Re: recommend an oktoberfest yeast
Post by: davidgzach on February 25, 2013, 12:23:38 AM
But pulling decoctions definitely changes the character of the beer.

Uh.....maybe....

Uh oh, I see a decoction debate coming!  Dennny

No debate.....I know what I believe and everyone else is free to be wrong....;)

LOL!