Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: duboman on April 12, 2013, 02:55:15 PM

Title: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on April 12, 2013, 02:55:15 PM
I had discussion on this recipe in the ingredients section and have finalized the recipe. I was asked to share so here it is. I am planning on brewing this up over the weekend and will try to remember to follow up once packaged and tasted. If you brew this up let me know what you think.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Hibiscus Gose
Brewer: Commune Brewing Company
Asst Brewer:
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 9.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 12.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.2 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
6.25 gal              Chicago, IL                              Water         1        -             
12.00 g               Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent   2        -             
5 lbs 8.5 oz          Wheat (3.0 SRM)                          Grain         3        47.9 %       
2 lbs                 Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM)         Grain         4        17.3 %       
2 lbs                 Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)                    Grain         5        17.4 %       
2 lbs                 Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)            Grain         6        17.4 %       
1.00 oz               Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil  Hop           7        12.9 IBUs     
0.31 tsp              Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        8        -             
0.50 tbsp             Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         9        -             
20.00 g               Sea Salt (Boil 5.0 mins)                 Other         10       -             
2.00 g                Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)           Spice         11       -             
45.00 g               Hibiscus Flower-Dried (Boil 0.0 mins)    Spice         12       -             
1.0 pkg               German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) [124.21 m Yeast         13       -             


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 8.5 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Protein Rest      Add 2.84 gal of water at 131.2 F        122.0 F       30 min       
Saccharification  Add 2.31 gal of water at 186.0 F        148.0 F       30 min       
Mash Out          Add 2.59 gal of water at 211.8 F        168.0 F       10 min       

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.89 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
Conduct First Mash traditionally for conversion then add Acidulated Malt and perform second mash for 30 minutes or until pH drops to 3.75-3.8, sparge and boil

Gravity without Acidulated Malt=1.046 (anticipated)

Boulevard Amounts:
199g Hibiscus/31.5gallons
300g Coriander/33bbls
100g Sea Salt/31.5 gallons

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: Delo on April 16, 2013, 02:36:51 PM
Thanks for posting this. If I brew this it will be in a month or so although it may be scaled down and I may or may not be adding lactic acid in the end of the mash instead of the acidulated malt..depending on if I have it on hand for my cheesemaking endeavor.
Title: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on April 28, 2013, 10:10:42 PM
So to update-bottled this up today and it came in at 5.8%. The sample was delicious, just slightly sour as predicted and the color was sort of a pale pink lemonade from the flowers. Crisp taste but not overly dry and well balanced. This should be great when conditioned and carbonated in a week or two. I see this going fast
Title: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on May 05, 2013, 08:08:11 PM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/06/y9ypy4uq.jpg)

Here it is and it's really great! The floral aroma and slight crisp and tart finish are exactly what I was shooting for!
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: hoser on May 23, 2013, 07:41:54 PM
How much sea salt g/gal?
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on May 23, 2013, 08:10:47 PM
That color is AWESOME! All from the flowers?
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: morticaixavier on May 23, 2013, 08:11:02 PM
looks to be just over 2 grams/gallon
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: hoser on May 23, 2013, 08:21:59 PM
looks to be just over 2 grams/gallon

The reason I wonder is because on his original recipe development thread there was a question about the salt addition amount in one the recipes in the Wheat book by Stan.  I believe there was an error and Stan provided duboman with the corrected amount per gallon. But that original thread seems to have disappeared or been eaten by forum gremlins?

I love the color hibiscus provides to beer!
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on May 23, 2013, 09:54:21 PM
Stan did provide the numbers for the salt and I did use 20 grams for the 6.25 gallon batch or 3.2 grams per gallon roughly.

Yes, the color is amazing and it is all from the Hibiscus flowers! When it went to primary it looked like pink lemonade. It has mellowed a bit now and that picture is pretty true still. I must say I am totally pleased with the way this beer turned out. It has amazing floral aroma and taste and is sour just enough with a balance of the salt. I keep drinking it trying to find something that could improve it but after each glass I come up with nothing:) Getting set to brew it again next month!
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on May 23, 2013, 09:58:58 PM
looks to be just over 2 grams/gallon

The reason I wonder is because on his original recipe development thread there was a question about the salt addition amount in one the recipes in the Wheat book by Stan.  I believe there was an error and Stan provided duboman with the corrected amount per gallon. But that original thread seems to have disappeared or been eaten by forum gremlins?

I love the color hibiscus provides to beer!

Yes, somehow the original thread was consumed by beer gremlins in cyber-space as I can no longer locate it either ???
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: troybinso on May 24, 2013, 02:27:15 PM
That looks great. I have been thinking about doing something like this with hibiscus.

In my plan I split my batch up a few different ways, and add stuff like hibiscus and different fruits post boil. I am getting a little hung up on the hibiscus, though. I suppose I could just make a strong tea and add it post-boil.
Title: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on May 24, 2013, 05:29:27 PM

That looks great. I have been thinking about doing something like this with hibiscus.

In my plan I split my batch up a few different ways, and add stuff like hibiscus and different fruits post boil. I am getting a little hung up on the hibiscus, though. I suppose I could just make a strong tea and add it post-boil.

If you plan on splitting the wort into separate beers then yes, make the tea and add it.
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: pmcint01 on March 14, 2014, 08:22:27 PM
When do you add the hops?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: morticaixavier on March 14, 2014, 08:33:45 PM
When do you add the hops?

Thanks

I would guess at either 90 or 60 minutes left in the boil. they are really only there as a preservative and mild source of bitterness.
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on March 14, 2014, 09:51:48 PM
My recipe only has one bitter charge and its at the 60 minute mark for IIRC about 20 IBU and the hibiscus goes in with 10 minutes left in the boil

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: Rhoobarb on March 15, 2014, 02:08:25 AM
The color alone makes me want to brew this!  Looks and sounds awesome. I assume the acid malt is to drop your pH.  I have such soft water that I am in the unusual position of having to UP my pH.  I'll probably drop the acid malt and add more base malt.  Thanks for sharing!  This will probably be fantastic on our hot Georgia afternoons in late July!
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on March 15, 2014, 12:44:46 PM
The color alone makes me want to brew this!  Looks and sounds awesome. I assume the acid malt is to drop your pH.  I have such soft water that I am in the unusual position of having to UP my pH.  I'll probably drop the acid malt and add more base malt.  Thanks for sharing!  This will probably be fantastic on our hot Georgia afternoons in late July!
hey Rhoobarb,
The large amoint of acidulated malt was actually used to sour the mash by dropping the pH.

A small amount was used to drop initial pH, the rest was used at the end of the mash to drop thr pH to around 3.5. At the time I had no experience using bacteria to make a sour wort and was nervous so I thought I would try with the malt as noted at the bottom of the recipe.

In all the initial beer turned out well but having received good feedback some changes are in the mix for the next batch as follows.

Gypsum will be removed as it brought out too much hop presence detracting from the beer. A traditional sour wort process using lacto will be employed to get a true sourness(in the yeast and ferm forum I inquired sbout this and will follow that process). The rest will be about the same but perhaps bumping the salt up to 25 grams since the beer will be more sour.

When judged the comments advised it needed to be more sour and the bright hop presence needed to be toned down , hence the changes noted. If you brew this I'd love to hear how yours turns out!

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: Pinski on March 15, 2014, 05:13:08 PM
Well done! That looks like a fantastic beer. I can really see the salt and hibiscus working really nicely together.
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: pmcint01 on March 15, 2014, 05:48:26 PM
I'm going to give this recipe a go.  I would love to see/try you new recipe if you don't mind sharing that.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 15, 2014, 05:53:34 PM
Yeah, that is a pretty interesting sounding beer. The hibiscus itself is already pretty tart, and then you throw in the lacto element - sounds tasty.
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on March 15, 2014, 08:45:15 PM
So here is the second iteration I put together based upon everything I have garnered to date:

Note: The Hibiscus goes in at flame out and is basically steeped for 30 minutes, then whirlpool, YMMV. It lends an Watermelon type color and amazing floral aroma to the finished product. I do not bag the hibiscus but your set up may require this

Be sure to note my odd batch size and the recipe is calculated at 80% which is my set ups standard, YMMV

See the note at the bottom as to the prescribed souring wort process I plan on using for this batch. This method was provided in this forum so thanks for that!

I plan on a 60 minute boil, even with the pilsner malt as I have never had any DMS issues in my process but again, YMMV so plan accordingly.

For water I will simply balance with proper lactic acid addition to achieve desired pH for mash based on my water supply, your's may differ as well. Perhaps some calcium chloride. I have not yet run this through Bru'n Water yet so I am just not sure yet.

I ferment my 1007 typically at 58F, raise to 65 to finish and then lager for 2 weeks typically.

I plan on brewing this in a couple weeks and will report back, if you give this a try I would love to hear your results, my first batch was a very good beer, I anticipate these changes and proper sour method to greatly improve this!

Here ya go!
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 9.02 gal
Post Boil Volume: 7.02 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 5.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 12.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1 lbs                 Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)                     Adjunct       1        8.5 %         
5 lbs 8.0 oz          Wheat (3.0 SRM)                          Grain         2        46.8 %       
3 lbs 4.0 oz          Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)            Grain         3        27.7 %       
2 lbs                 Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)                    Grain         4        17.0 %       
1.00 oz               Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil  Hop           5        12.4 IBUs     
0.31 tsp              Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        6        -             
0.50 tbsp             Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         7        -             
25.00 g               Sea Salt (Boil 5.0 mins)                 Other         8        -             
2.00 g                Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)           Spice         9        -             
45.00 g               Hibiscus Flower-Dried (Boil 0.0 mins)    Spice         10       -             
1.0 pkg               German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) [124.21 m Yeast         11       -   Yeast calc for proper starter size         
1.0 pkg               Lactobacillus (Wyeast Labs #5335) [50.28 Yeast         12       -             


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Protein Rest      Add 2.89 gal of water at 131.2 F        122.0 F       30 min       
Saccharification  Add 2.35 gal of water at 185.9 F        148.0 F       30 min       
Mash Out          Add 2.64 gal of water at 211.7 F        168.0 F       10 min       

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.79 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------




For Second Iteration: Souring process:
1. Mash as normal.
2. Lauter/Sparge into your boil kettle as normal
3. Bring the wort to 170F and hold for approximately 5 minutes. This will ensure that you kill all bacteria and yeast present on the grain and in the wort.
4. Cool wort to 70-80F and transfer to a fermentor. I use a dedicated sour PET fermentor.
5. Pitch pure lacto culture. No starter required. I have done starter and sans starter methods, neither sour the beer much quicker than just pitching a straight lacto vial in the wort. Again, personal preference on lacto starter.
6. Sour for 1-3 days depending on taste and if you have a pH meter, the pH. Personally, I find the sweet spot around 36-48 hours. I don't use a pH meter. If going by taste be sure you take into account the relative sourness as the wort is still very sweet. It is going to taste more sour post yeast fermentation.
7. Transfer the soured wort back to your boil kettle and proceed as normal

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: pmcint01 on April 06, 2014, 09:40:16 PM
In your original recipe you say to conduct the mash then add the acid malt and conduct another mash for 30 minutes.  Are you draining out the first mash water before adding the acid malt?  What temp should you maintain with the acid malt?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on April 06, 2014, 10:07:07 PM
In your original recipe you say to conduct the mash then add the acid malt and conduct another mash for 30 minutes.  Are you draining out the first mash water before adding the acid malt?  What temp should you maintain with the acid malt?

Thanks
no, the first mash was done traditiinally and held, the acid malt was added after the 60 minutes to drop the pH in a means to sour and held, then drained and sparged.

The original recipe produced a good beer but not sour enough, the concern being that more acid malt would have produced a acid type off flavor above a tolersble threshold.

The next iteration im planning in the next week or two will be soured according to the second recipe/lacto process I updated

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: bobo1898 on May 11, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
I plan on brewing this in a couple weeks and will report back, if you give this a try I would love to hear your results, my first batch was a very good beer, I anticipate these changes and proper sour method to greatly improve this!

I know I'm two years late, but I was curious how this compared to using the acidulated malt? Was your lacto souring method more successful?
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on May 12, 2016, 05:25:44 PM
I plan on brewing this in a couple weeks and will report back, if you give this a try I would love to hear your results, my first batch was a very good beer, I anticipate these changes and proper sour method to greatly improve this!

I know I'm two years late, but I was curious how this compared to using the acidulated malt? Was your lacto souring method more successful?
Turned out way better than just using acidulated malt!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: bobo1898 on May 13, 2016, 06:11:16 PM
Turned out way better than just using acidulated malt!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Awesome....how long did you let it sit?
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on May 14, 2016, 12:50:12 PM
Turned out way better than just using acidulated malt!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Awesome....how long did you let it sit?
3 days at 90oF, pH dropped to 4.0, nice and tart

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: bobo1898 on July 01, 2016, 01:46:50 PM
Just mashed this yesterday with your lacto method. I've never brewed with lactobacillus and was curious if I should expect airlock activity, or typical fermentation activity in the carboy? It's been just over 12 hours and I don't see much going on in the fermenter.

I don't have the ability to hold the temp as high as you suggested. I pitched at 110 degrees and figured it would naturally drop over the three days. I assume that because my temp will stabilize at 70 degrees, it might take a little longer for the pH to drop?
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on July 02, 2016, 02:54:07 PM
Just mashed this yesterday with your lacto method. I've never brewed with lactobacillus and was curious if I should expect airlock activity, or typical fermentation activity in the carboy? It's been just over 12 hours and I don't see much going on in the fermenter.

I don't have the ability to hold the temp as high as you suggested. I pitched at 110 degrees and figured it would naturally drop over the three days. I assume that because my temp will stabilize at 70 degrees, it might take a little longer for the pH to drop?
I've not noticed much if any airlock activity or even a drop in gravity with the Lacto, at the lower temp it might take a few days for the pH to drop, a pH of about 4 is a really nice place to be for a tart Gose.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: bobo1898 on July 02, 2016, 03:23:48 PM
I've not noticed much if any airlock activity or even a drop in gravity with the Lacto, at the lower temp it might take a few days for the pH to drop, a pH of about 4 is a really nice place to be for a tart Gose.

Yeah it seems like some people have activity and some do not.

Just needed a little patience. Just before the 24 hour mark, activity was visible---thin krausen on the top, bubbling, etc. Oddly enough around 75-80 degrees.

I actually split boil volume into two carboys (fermenter not big enough for boil volume). pH in one is around 3.8 and the second one is at 4. Going to combine the two again and boil this tomorrow.

Looking for a pH of 3.6 or 3.7 so hopefully it stays above 3.5! Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on July 02, 2016, 08:43:20 PM
I've not noticed much if any airlock activity or even a drop in gravity with the Lacto, at the lower temp it might take a few days for the pH to drop, a pH of about 4 is a really nice place to be for a tart Gose.

Yeah it seems like some people have activity and some do not.

Just needed a little patience. Just before the 24 hour mark, activity was visible---thin krausen on the top, bubbling, etc. Oddly enough around 75-80 degrees.

I actually split boil volume into two carboys (fermenter not big enough for boil volume). pH in one is around 3.8 and the second one is at 4. Going to combine the two again and boil this tomorrow.

Looking for a pH of 3.6 or 3.7 so hopefully it stays above 3.5! Thanks for the help!
Sounds good, I'm sure it will turn out great!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: Jivy26 on July 27, 2016, 02:35:43 AM
Looking to follow your second iteration recipe for my first ever attempt at a Gose. Did you do a full 60 min boil after the souring? Also once you pitched the 1007 did you treat it like a lager and ferment around 50-55 then diacytl rest followed by a full lagering phase?

I'm still new to gose so trying to get your practices for this. Thanks and great looking brew!
Title: Re: Hibiscus Gose
Post by: duboman on August 06, 2016, 07:17:58 PM
Looking to follow your second iteration recipe for my first ever attempt at a Gose. Did you do a full 60 min boil after the souring? Also once you pitched the 1007 did you treat it like a lager and ferment around 50-55 then diacytl rest followed by a full lagering phase?

I'm still new to gose so trying to get your practices for this. Thanks and great looking brew!
Sorry, just saw this, yes, traditional boil and fermented like a lager for a nice crisp Gose

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk