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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: erockrph on April 30, 2013, 12:29:31 AM

Title: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: erockrph on April 30, 2013, 12:29:31 AM
Anyone ever use any of these before? I'm all for more options in the dry yeast department, but given my poor results from Nottingham in the past, I'm hesitant to try out something that isn't well-tested.

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shop/brand/mangrove-jacks/ (http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shop/brand/mangrove-jacks/)
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: barliman on April 30, 2013, 01:34:25 AM
Haven't tried them yet, but I am looking forward to trying the west coast and the two English strains.

J
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on April 30, 2013, 11:50:59 AM
I'll give them a shot. I am a fan of high-quality dry yeast, as well as letting homebrewers know that "high-quality" and "dry yeast" CAN exist in the same sentence.

Rebel Brewer didn't have any notes on flocculation, but they have them on their website. Interesting company!

http://mangrovejacks.com/collections/craft-series-yeasts
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on April 30, 2013, 01:20:45 PM
That's cool, always good to have more options. I'd be interested to try the Bavarian wheat strain. Haven't tried the WB-06 from Fermentis yet, but I've read that it's not very banana-y.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: erockrph on April 30, 2013, 01:21:12 PM
Yeah, I think I may have to bite the bullet and get a few of these. A dry version of WY3638 would be very nice, as well as a dry version of Pacman. The Newcastle Dark Ale looks pretty tasty as well.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: erockrph on April 30, 2013, 01:31:05 PM
That's cool, always good to have more options. I'd be interested to try the Bavarian wheat strain. Haven't tried the WB-06 from Fermentis yet, but I've read that it's not very banana-y.

If the M20 is truly a dry version of 3638, I think the ester profile is largely the same as the Weihenstephan, but the phenolic side has some cinnamon/cardamom/vanilla and a bit less clovey-ness.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: cornershot on April 30, 2013, 01:48:54 PM
Who wants to be the first to ferment the Workhorse yeast at 90f?!
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: erockrph on April 30, 2013, 02:33:42 PM
Who wants to be the first to ferment the Workhorse yeast at 90f?!

If I could reliably ferment at 90F, then I'd rather brew Saisons with DuPont lol.

I can't help but wonder what the deal is with that strain. It is for lagers at 59-68F? Is that really a lager at that point? You could brew a beer with Chico or a Steam Beer strain at that temp and may be able to pass it off as a mock lager with the right grain bill and conditioning, but I don't know if I'd actually bill it as a true lager.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on April 30, 2013, 02:56:51 PM
That's cool, always good to have more options. I'd be interested to try the Bavarian wheat strain. Haven't tried the WB-06 from Fermentis yet, but I've read that it's not very banana-y.

If the M20 is truly a dry version of 3638, I think the ester profile is largely the same as the Weihenstephan, but the phenolic side has some cinnamon/cardamom/vanilla and a bit less clovey-ness.
I'd like to order a couple packs, but shipping will be pricey. They do have a "super saver" option I guess...not sure about that though...suppose it wouldn't hurt for dry yeast.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on April 30, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
Hopefully my LHBS will get it.  The cost + shipping = more than liquid.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on April 30, 2013, 04:11:25 PM
Who wants to be the first to ferment the Workhorse yeast at 90f?!

This one REALLY interested me... I think the trick would be KEEPING it at 90F without wild temp. swings.

Its probably more like a San Diego Super Yeast, where you add it at the end of a super high gravity fermentation and continue to (slowly) raise the temp. so it will complete fermentation.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on April 30, 2013, 04:12:10 PM
Hopefully my LHBS will get it.  The cost + shipping = more than liquid.

And then there's this...

Is Rebel the only big online store to carry it?
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: gymrat on April 30, 2013, 04:20:54 PM
I noticed the instructions say it will do 6.6 gallons up to 1.050. Above that you are supposed to double pitch. I wonder if one package is enough for 5.5 gallons up to 1.060.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: blatz on April 30, 2013, 07:11:36 PM
Hopefully my LHBS will get it.  The cost + shipping = more than liquid.

y'all could always order more stuff than the yeast  ;)

it will bring down the shipping cost if you spread it out overall.

I don't really have a LHBS so its no consequence to me.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on April 30, 2013, 07:31:58 PM
In terms of $$, I agree Paul.  But I've shopped @ my LHBS for 20+ years, and they're fantastic. I believe in supporting the local shop (or brewery) if they do it right.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: erockrph on May 01, 2013, 01:21:04 AM
In terms of $$, I agree Paul.  But I've shopped @ my LHBS for 20+ years, and they're fantastic. I believe in supporting the local shop (or brewery) if they do it right.

Make sure to ask them to carry it then. The more the industry sees our demand for quality dry yeast, the more likely stuff like this will become widely available.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on May 04, 2013, 02:15:39 AM
I saw today that William's Brewing supplies has the Mangrove Jack's yeast. So I decided to make an order for the aeration wand and 2 packs of the Bavarian Hefe yeast. Going to ferment it at 68F, see if I can get the banana esters I want that I get from the Weihenstephaner yeast.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: 1vertical on May 07, 2013, 05:31:52 AM
I do not know about this yeast, but the wand is da bomb!  I really, really like mine.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on May 07, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
Make sure to ask them to carry it then. The more the industry sees our demand for quality dry yeast, the more likely stuff like this will become widely available.

+1000. And the more demand, the more investment in the market = higher quality and more selection.

Also + 1 on asking your LHBS to carry it. I have done this multiple times for yeast strains, and my shop always comes through.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: skyler on May 14, 2013, 08:52:15 PM
I noticed the instructions say it will do 6.6 gallons up to 1.050. Above that you are supposed to double pitch. I wonder if one package is enough for 5.5 gallons up to 1.060.

6.6 gallons of 1.050 beer has more "gravity points" than 5.5 gallons of 1.060 beer, so I would assume so. IME, 1 sachet of Danstar or Fermentis is plenty for a 5.5 gal batch of 1.065 IPA - at least in that it isn't worth it to open a second back.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: skyler on July 18, 2013, 06:47:16 PM
I finally tried using a sachet of the Mangrove Jack US West Coast Ale Yeast. I just sprinkled the sachet directly onto 6 gallons of 1.043 hoppy session ale. It took a lot longer (36 hrs) to get visibly active than I am used to (12-24 hrs), and the fermentation has been foamier than usual for an American-style yeast (the yeast seems to be behaving like an English strain). The recipe is 5% wheat malt and 10% crystal malt, but still - the aggressive foamy activity at 64ยบ F after over a day and a half of nothing... I don't think this is Chico.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: kadnod on July 19, 2013, 05:18:21 PM
I just made a lager using two packs of their bohemian yeast.  Turned out pretty well.  It's slightly matly with a little bit of sweetness in the aftertaste, which somewhat matches the website description of what it is supposed to turn out like.  Mine's only been lagering for 4 weeks, though, and the site/instructions recommend 6-8, so maybe it will get even better with time.

It's my first lager, so I really can't say if it's any better or worse than other yeast strains, but I'm happy with the results. 
 

Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on July 19, 2013, 05:51:26 PM
I've used the Hefe yeast, it's good. Has that banana I wanted, but only finished at 1.016 from 1.050, which was a bit disappointing. I'll use it again to see if it wasn't just that batch for some reason. I'm doing an experiment with the Workhorse yeast at ambient temps this weekend with a friend. We're both brewing the same recipe, same yeast, in our respective houses. It's probably somewhere around 75 to 80F in my house. So we'll see how that turns out...
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on July 22, 2013, 01:58:24 PM
Fermenting Workhorse yeast around 78F right now. Pretty nervous about this one, I just do not believe that a yeast can produce a clean beer that high. But we'll see. It's an IPA, OG 1.070 with 60% 2-row, 25% white wheat, 15% munich 10L. 1oz Chinook FWH, 1oz Simcoe 5min, 1oz each Chinook and Simcoe at flameout, hopstand for 30 minutes. If it's not a dumper, I'll dry hop with something in the keg.
Next morning the krausen was HUGE and it was fermenting super vigorously. Fermentation probably took off within hours after pitching. Aerated with pure O2 for probably a minute. Pitched at 75F. Not holding out much hope, but it's an experiment...
They say this yeast can go up to 90, but I'm leery because they say "lager styles 59-68F"...pfff, whatever guys...
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: cornershot on July 30, 2013, 01:24:01 AM
Beersk, way to take one for the team! Interested to see how that one turns out.

I used the west coast ale yeast on a session pale ale, APA, IPA, and barleywine- all fermented at 65-67f. I've experienced upper 70s attenuation, with a very clean profile. Hops and bitterness are really emphasized but the malt still comes thru very nicely. I really like it and will use it again.
I'd like to split a batch between west coast ale, chico and US-05 for comparison...
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on July 30, 2013, 01:05:27 PM
Samples I've taken of the Workhorse are pretty good and clean, fermented at 78F or so. It's on dry hops right now, will cold crash and keg in a few days. Only finished at 1.019 or so, which is disappointing. Pretty sure I pitched enough and aerated enough. Fermentation was done in about a day, so that could be one indication as to why...

Brewed an Oktoberfest on Sunday, let crash cool, aerated with pure O2 and pitched the Bohemian lager yeast the next morning. Twenty four hours and still nothing. In swirling the carboy, I get some bubbles, so that might mean it's getting going, but there's still no krausen forming just yet. I suppose that's normal. A guy on another forum said he had a 90+ hour lag time, which is LAME and makes me not want to use this yeast again. He said he email the company and they said it was strange, that he underpitched. I pitched plenty, I better not get a damn 90 hour lag time. I have some 34/70 slurry on hand if I need to pitch that...it's currently sitting at 55F, so let's hope it gets going here in the next day.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: cornershot on July 30, 2013, 01:39:34 PM
I used the MJ Newcastle brown in a 1.048 northern English brown, rehydrated, oxygenated, Wyeast nutrient, mashed at 152, fermented at a constant 68f, and it quit at 1.028. Lame! Wlp007 finished the job.
A friend used it in a 1.040 extract beer, not rehydrated, aerated, no temp control, and it finished at 1.006. The beer kind of sucked but we won't blame the yeast on that one. ;)
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on July 30, 2013, 02:41:46 PM
I used the MJ Newcastle brown in a 1.048 northern English brown, rehydrated, oxygenated, Wyeast nutrient, mashed at 152, fermented at a constant 68f, and it quit at 1.028. Lame! Wlp007 finished the job.
A friend used it in a 1.040 extract beer, not rehydrated, aerated, no temp control, and it finished at 1.006. The beer kind of sucked but we won't blame the yeast on that one. ;)
I forgot to mention that I used Wyeast nutrient in my Oktoberfest this weekend as well. Not terribly impressed so far with this company and their yeast. But I'm giving them a chance. I have some of the Newcastle Dark Ale yeast, as well as a packet of the West Coast Ale and Hefe yeasts. So if this kind of business continues, I'll be going back to Fermentis yeasts.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: ynotbrusum on July 30, 2013, 07:26:59 PM
I used the MJ Newcastle brown in a 1.048 northern English brown, rehydrated, oxygenated, Wyeast nutrient, mashed at 152, fermented at a constant 68f, and it quit at 1.028. Lame! Wlp007 finished the job.
A friend used it in a 1.040 extract beer, not rehydrated, aerated, no temp control, and it finished at 1.006. The beer kind of sucked but we won't blame the yeast on that one. ;)
I forgot to mention that I used Wyeast nutrient in my Oktoberfest this weekend as well. Not terribly impressed so far with this company and their yeast. But I'm giving them a chance. I have some of the Newcastle Dark Ale yeast, as well as a packet of the West Coast Ale and Hefe yeasts. So if this kind of business continues, I'll be going back to Fermentis yeasts.

You really jumped in with both feet on this mfg.  I hope most, if not all, turn out well.  I have noticed that first generation pitches of dry lager yeast have been a bit slow (even with 34/70), but on repitch they usually take right off, so you may want to see if a second gen goes quicker for the lager yeast.  Keep us posted, Beersk, and thanks for the willingness to go this route on a new company's strains.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: skyler on September 01, 2013, 03:49:43 PM
Just thought I would chime in to say the beer I made with the West Coast Ale Yeast came out well. I would compare this yeast to WLP051. It is less dry than using Chico and the hop expression is a little more restrained, but it is clean, fairly flocculant, and made a good beer.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on September 03, 2013, 01:18:15 PM
I used the MJ Newcastle brown in a 1.048 northern English brown, rehydrated, oxygenated, Wyeast nutrient, mashed at 152, fermented at a constant 68f, and it quit at 1.028. Lame! Wlp007 finished the job.
A friend used it in a 1.040 extract beer, not rehydrated, aerated, no temp control, and it finished at 1.006. The beer kind of sucked but we won't blame the yeast on that one. ;)
I forgot to mention that I used Wyeast nutrient in my Oktoberfest this weekend as well. Not terribly impressed so far with this company and their yeast. But I'm giving them a chance. I have some of the Newcastle Dark Ale yeast, as well as a packet of the West Coast Ale and Hefe yeasts. So if this kind of business continues, I'll be going back to Fermentis yeasts.

You really jumped in with both feet on this mfg.  I hope most, if not all, turn out well.  I have noticed that first generation pitches of dry lager yeast have been a bit slow (even with 34/70), but on repitch they usually take right off, so you may want to see if a second gen goes quicker for the lager yeast.  Keep us posted, Beersk, and thanks for the willingness to go this route on a new company's strains.
I guess I did, didn't I? Well, I like that there's another dry yeast option. I don't like to use liquid strains much during the warmer months. But upon repitch, I'm sure they're be a lot better. I've brewed with the Bohemian lager, Newcastle Dark, and Hefe yeasts now. But, the time of liquid yeast is coming with the awesome fall weather. Can't wait...
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: dee on October 03, 2013, 02:40:59 PM
I've tried the hefe yeast at 62 and 72 and it produced more banana at 72 but it isn't as good as WLP300 in my opinion.  Dry weizen yeast always seems to lean one way or the other.  I'm not a clove fan anyway, I want banana bombs.  I think pitching WLP300 at 68 and letting it free rise to 76 makes the best all around weizens.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on October 03, 2013, 06:08:27 PM
I'm pretty frustrated with the Mangrove Jack's yeast. I've had almost every beer under attenuate, even with oxygenation with pure O2, mashing low, doing step mashes, etc. The only beers I've had attenuate properly were an Oktoberfestbier and Schwarzbier, both finished at 1.014. The Newcastle Dark finished at 1.016 on a 1.038 beer. And repitched into an oatmeal stout it finished at 1.024 with an OG of 1.059. That was also oxygenated with pure O2, mashed at 154 for 90 minutes. ANNOYING. I have a faux helles fermenting now with Workhorse at 64, I hope to hell that beer gets down to at least 1.012.
I think it's either liquid yeast or the occasional US-05 or 34/70 for me, here on out.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: quattlebaum on October 22, 2013, 01:22:34 PM
I'm pretty frustrated with the Mangrove Jack's yeast. I've had almost every beer under attenuate, even with oxygenation with pure O2, mashing low, doing step mashes, etc. The only beers I've had attenuate properly were an Oktoberfestbier and Schwarzbier, both finished at 1.014. The Newcastle Dark finished at 1.016 on a 1.038 beer. And repitched into an oatmeal stout it finished at 1.024 with an OG of 1.059. That was also oxygenated with pure O2, mashed at 154 for 90 minutes. ANNOYING. I have a faux helles fermenting now with Workhorse at 64, I hope to hell that beer gets down to at least 1.012.
I think it's either liquid yeast or the occasional US-05 or 34/70 for me, here on out.

I Agree! NewCastle MO3 very poor attenuation 52%. I even read your post and reduced my mash temp a significant amount and still 1.046 to 1.022. My conditions where perfect with amount, temp, o2  and yeast date on package was 12/2014. Should have been better i think. O well down the drain it goes. I will not use it again.......sorry. For those who use beware and adjust to only get 50 to 55% att. 
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on October 22, 2013, 06:17:07 PM
I'm pretty frustrated with the Mangrove Jack's yeast. I've had almost every beer under attenuate, even with oxygenation with pure O2, mashing low, doing step mashes, etc. The only beers I've had attenuate properly were an Oktoberfestbier and Schwarzbier, both finished at 1.014. The Newcastle Dark finished at 1.016 on a 1.038 beer. And repitched into an oatmeal stout it finished at 1.024 with an OG of 1.059. That was also oxygenated with pure O2, mashed at 154 for 90 minutes. ANNOYING. I have a faux helles fermenting now with Workhorse at 64, I hope to hell that beer gets down to at least 1.012.
I think it's either liquid yeast or the occasional US-05 or 34/70 for me, here on out.

I Agree! NewCastle MO3 very poor attenuation 52%. I even read your post and reduced my mash temp a significant amount and still 1.046 to 1.022. My conditions where perfect with amount, temp, o2  and yeast date on package was 12/2014. Should have been better i think. O well down the drain it goes. I will not use it again.......sorry. For those who use beware and adjust to only get 50 to 55% att. 
Good, I'm not the only one! I have an oatmeal stout on tap right now that finished at 1.023 or 1.024 from 1.059 with the Newcastle Dark Ale yeast...it's not good, sadly. Just too sweet and almost worty tasting. Ugh. Never using that freakin' yeast again. It was a brew in a bag batch, mashed for 60 minutes at 154F, no heat applied. Should've been fine, but nope. I have weird issues with brew in a bag batches not fermenting very vigorously anyway...it's weird. Wonder if that's a pH issue.

I also brewed a "helles" recently with Workhorse. OG was 1.051, aerated with o2, rehydrated yeast, fermented at 64F, FG was 1.016. Not crazy high, but too high for the style. Taste is fine, but still, it's frustrating that I can't get any of the yeast to attenuate properly no matter what I do.

Anyway, down with Mangrove Jack's!
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: chezteth on November 13, 2013, 04:43:42 AM
I've used the Workhorse yeast so far in an imperial Stout OG 1.110. It stopped at 1.032. It seems slightly sweet but not bad. I started a maibock on Sunday with the Bohemian Lager yeast. I still don't see any krausen on it. I rehydrated and pitched 3 sachets. The verdict is still out on this one for me.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on November 13, 2013, 12:55:39 PM
Hopefully my LHBS will get it.  The cost + shipping = more than liquid.

And then there's this...

Is Rebel the only big online store to carry it?

I am pretty sure William's has got the Mangrove yeasts for cheap (plus shipping).
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on November 13, 2013, 02:05:24 PM
I've used the Workhorse yeast so far in an imperial Stout OG 1.110. It stopped at 1.032. It seems slightly sweet but not bad. I started a maibock on Sunday with the Bohemian Lager yeast. I still don't see any krausen on it. I rehydrated and pitched 3 sachets. The verdict is still out on this one for me.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
I'm not crazy about the Bohemian lager strain. It has a very dominant flavor profile, not really in a good way.

Also, Farmhouse Brewing Supply carries Mangrove Jack's.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: yeastmaster on December 01, 2013, 10:16:48 PM
I've used the Workhorse yeast so far in an imperial Stout OG 1.110. It stopped at 1.032. It seems slightly sweet but not bad. I started a maibock on Sunday with the Bohemian Lager yeast. I still don't see any krausen on it. I rehydrated and pitched 3 sachets. The verdict is still out on this one for me.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: rallenhall on December 16, 2013, 04:51:40 PM
My results have been more positive than most. I used the Workhorse in a Baltic porter Christmas Ale ... went from 1.065 to 1.023. That doesn't seem especially good, but there was cocoa nibs, cherrys and other stuff added to the secondary that affected the FG. Flavor and body is good. Also did a side-by-side, splitting 6 gals. of lager wort between rehydrated MJ Bohemian Pils and Fermentis S-189. Really didn't care for either, but went ahead and repitched the slurries ... Bo Pils into 5 gal of Bo Pils wort and S-189 into 5 gal of Vienna lager. Both came out much better. The Bo Pils especially is aging beautifully and is crystal clear. Confirms my previous experience with dry lager yeasts that the second pitch/generation is often better than the first (in spite of the warning not to repitch). No doubt, the massive yeast count from the slurry helps too.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on December 16, 2013, 07:47:35 PM
I've used the Workhorse yeast so far in an imperial Stout OG 1.110. It stopped at 1.032. It seems slightly sweet but not bad. I started a maibock on Sunday with the Bohemian Lager yeast. I still don't see any krausen on it. I rehydrated and pitched 3 sachets. The verdict is still out on this one for me.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....
I've only heard of a couple of people having good attenuation with the Workhorse. Just do yourself a favor and don't use Mangrove Jack's!
I especially didn't like the Bohemian Lager yeast. It has a strange flavor that is too dominating.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: tommymorris on December 16, 2013, 10:52:26 PM
Do folks do starters with dry lager yeast? It seems like a 2L starter might improve the cell count and help  alleviate some issues. Especially in light of rallenhall's experience re pitching a slurry.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: klickitat jim on December 17, 2013, 12:50:03 AM
I've made 5 gal starters with dry yeast.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: erockrph on December 17, 2013, 01:19:22 AM
I've made 5 gal starters with dry yeast.

+1 - but that's the only kind of starter I make with dry yeast.

The whole point of using dry yeast (for me at least) is that I don't need a starter. If I'm going to take the time to make a starter, then I might as well use liquid yeast.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: klickitat jim on December 17, 2013, 01:23:53 AM
You could make a 2L starter but a whole package would be like ten times too much yeast. The pros of using dry are cost, storage, ease of use. The con is limited variety, or used to be.
Title: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: tommymorris on December 17, 2013, 01:47:53 AM
One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on December 17, 2013, 02:02:11 PM
One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.
Rebel Brewer has Wyeast for $4? You have to factor shipping into all of this as well. Wyeast is $6.25 at Northern Brewer. Still, I think it's better to build up a starter with a pack of liquid yeast over a week and a half and have the fresh, healthy yeast instead of a couple of packs of dry yeast that maybe aren't so healthy and ready to eat.
Besides, the Mangrove Jack's boh lager yeast takes about 3 days to get going. It's annoying.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: tommymorris on December 17, 2013, 02:11:39 PM

One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.
Rebel Brewer has Wyeast for $4? You have to factor shipping into all of this as well. Wyeast is $6.25 at Northern Brewer. Still, I think it's better to build up a starter with a pack of liquid yeast over a week and a half and have the fresh, healthy yeast instead of a couple of packs of dry yeast that maybe aren't so healthy and ready to eat.
Besides, the Mangrove Jack's boh lager yeast takes about 3 days to get going. It's annoying.

Rebel has Mangrove Jack for $4. Liquid yeasts are more. Typical online prices, $6-7.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: tschmidlin on December 19, 2013, 12:14:11 AM

One package of dry yeast is about 220B cells if you believe Mr. Malty. Other sources say less (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram)

220B is not enough for many lagers so you need more than 1 pack.  Mangrove Jack generically recommends 2 packs for a lager.

So you can pay $8 for 2 packs or $4 for 1 pack plus like $1 worth of DME in a starter. (Prices from rebelbrewer.com)

Anyway, I know that dry yeast is supposed to be convenient but I am wondering if some brewer's troubles with dry yeast in Lagers result from under pitching rather than the quality or strain of yeast.
Rebel Brewer has Wyeast for $4? You have to factor shipping into all of this as well. Wyeast is $6.25 at Northern Brewer. Still, I think it's better to build up a starter with a pack of liquid yeast over a week and a half and have the fresh, healthy yeast instead of a couple of packs of dry yeast that maybe aren't so healthy and ready to eat.
Besides, the Mangrove Jack's boh lager yeast takes about 3 days to get going. It's annoying.

Rebel has Mangrove Jack for $4. Liquid yeasts are more. Typical online prices, $6-7.
I've never used Mangrove Jack yeast, but typically it is not ideal to make a starter with dried yeast.  Pitching more packs is the way to go.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: albionwood on January 02, 2014, 03:23:35 AM
I've used the M27 Belgian strain twice and had good results.  First was a Leffe clone, came out fairly close, with loads of spicy character and a definite pepper note.  Dried the beer out very well, too, without using any sugar (1062 down to 1008).  In fact it might have gone a little too far, the mouthfeel was a bit thin.

I saved about a pint of the cake after kegging that beer, and pitched it into a strong gold (OG 1074), along with a packet of T-58.  It went down to 1012.  Drinking that one now, and loving it - good body, complex spicy estery profile. 

Now I have several carboys of cider going with M2, having heard good reviews, and am hoping that lives up to the hype.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: Greg D on April 28, 2014, 02:10:06 AM
This yeast garnished my attention as being from a source in New Zealand.  I ordered (5) packs of the M20 Wheat / Hefeweizen from Austin Home Brew.   When reading the package (where there were no photos on the Internet of the back) I discovered it is actually made in the UK from "Local and imported sources".  Excuse me?   Imported from New Zealand, or where?   

Anyway, I went with my original plan of tasting this yeast by showcasing it.  Used an all dry Hefeweizen kit from Morebeer.com, basically 3 gallons of spring water, 6 pounds of DME, no grains, added 14 oz. sugar blend to boost the booze, started the 60 minute boil with .5 oz Northern Brewer hops for bittering.  Cooled down to 68-69F in about 15 minutes using 2 gallons of freezer water that was at 34F.   Pitched two packs, sealed it and went to bed. 

Hello to my second blowoff ever (it was my 8th brew).   It blew the lid off the bucket and when I resealed it it instantly blew the airlock into the ceiling fan.   Wife was not impressed.   We've all been there right?   

Cleaned up the mess (only lost a small amount), installed a blow off hose into an empty spring water bottle, it chugged hard for about 6 hours and now I have it under control with an airlock back in place. 

So, I would say that a single package of the M20 Wheat is enough for a 6 gallon Hefeweizen.   

Will report back on the taste in about a month. 

Greg D
College Station, Texas

Yes, this is indeed  my 1st post here.  Have been using home brew forums for about 10 years and am looking for a new forum to call home.   Thank you to the admin for the access and looking forward to down to earth interaction on this forum, suggested to me by Chris at Austin Home Brew.   Cheers.
Title: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: tommymorris on April 28, 2014, 02:33:37 AM
This yeast garnished my attention as being from a source in New Zealand.  I ordered (5) packs of the M20 Wheat / Hefeweizen from Austin Home Brew.   When reading the package (where there were no photos on the Internet of the back) I discovered it is actually made in the UK from "Local and imported sources".  Excuse me?   Imported from New Zealand, or where?   

Anyway, I went with my original plan of tasting this yeast by showcasing it.  Used an all dry Hefeweizen kit from Morebeer.com, basically 3 gallons of spring water, 6 pounds of DME, no grains, added 14 oz. sugar blend to boost the booze, started the 60 minute boil with .5 oz Northern Brewer hops for bittering.  Cooled down to 68-69F in about 15 minutes using 2 gallons of freezer water that was at 34F.   Pitched two packs, sealed it and went to bed. 

Hello to my second blowoff ever (it was my 8th brew).   It blew the lid off the bucket and when I resealed it it instantly blew the airlock into the ceiling fan.   Wife was not impressed.   We've all been there right?   

Cleaned up the mess (only lost a small amount), installed a blow off hose into an empty spring water bottle, it chugged hard for about 6 hours and now I have it under control with an airlock back in place. 

So, I would say that a single package of the M20 Wheat is enough for a 6 gallon Hefeweizen.   

Will report back on the taste in about a month. 

Greg D
College Station, Texas

Yes, this is indeed  my 1st post here.  Have been using home brew forums for about 10 years and am looking for a new forum to call home.   Thank you to the admin for the access and looking forward to down to earth interaction on this forum, suggested to me by Chris at Austin Home Brew.   Cheers.

Farmers fight!
Farmers fight!
Fight! Fight!
Farmers, farmers fight!

Howdy, Greg.

- Tommy '94
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: Greg D on April 28, 2014, 04:50:36 AM
Howdy Tommy!   Forgot to mention that I also used an AHS Yeast Fuel.   Was not needed with a double pitch, unless you want a blowout.   

Very powerful yeast.

Greg

Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on April 28, 2014, 08:40:00 PM
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I've never had a good fermentation with Mangrove Jack's yeast of any kind. Water chemistry, pure o2, rehydration of the yeast, mash low...none of it worked for me. I attributed my issues to their sh!tty yeast.

I have some left unfortunately because I was on a dry yeast kick for a while. I recently did an open fermented hefe, 1.5 gallons, 1 packet of the hefe yeast. Roused it every day, mashed low, used phosphoric to adjust water pH, gave it pure o2... Damn thing finished at 1.018. I've had plenty other beers not finish below 1.016, most stopping around 1.019-1.020.

The hefe was really good, however...for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: Greg D on April 29, 2014, 03:12:41 AM
beersk - That seems odd to me.  Maybe it's a freshness issue?  I used Crystal Geyser spring water like I always do, which in Texas ranges from being sourced from Arkansas to Texas.  Latest shipments to local grocers are from NE Texas.   And I didn't rehydrate it.  Just pitched the two packs on top of the wort before putting the lid on.   With liquid yeast I normally pitch it first then dump the wort on it but since Mangrove Jack's is top fermenting I just tossed it on the top.  It actually started producing krausen like instantly before I put the lid on the bucket. 

Told my wife I was concerned about a blow out.  Sure enough. 

Of the (5) packs I ordered I have one left with an expiration date of 12/14/14.  You're welcome to have it if you want, just drop me an address in private and I'll drop it in the mail.  Free of course. 

After the success of M20 Bavarian, I would most certainly try their other strains.   Can't wait to taste it.  3 days later the fermentation has slowed considerably.   Will probably steal a sample this weekend, test the ABV and probably bottle it.

Greg
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on April 29, 2014, 02:18:06 PM
I'm not saying it's bad tasting yeast, but the performance I've gotten is very poor. The open fermented hefe I did with the M20 was actually one of the best hefes I've ever brewed, and even rivaled the best I've ever had. I drank the last bottle of the 1.2 gallon batch last week and it was amazing. Even though it finished at 1.018...I think the residual sweetness adds a bit to a hefe, not that I want all my hefes to finish that high though.
I'm not going to use Mangrove Jack's again though. Thanks for the offer.
I do still have a pack of the West Coast IPA yeast in my fridge...maybe I should do another small batch to be bottled with it...maybe a double black IPA or something I won't drink super often.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: Jimmy K on May 02, 2014, 12:42:33 PM

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....
I've only heard of a couple of people having good attenuation with the Workhorse. Just do yourself a favor and don't use Mangrove Jack's!
I made a cream ale with Workhorse. It went from 1.048 to 1.015 for 68% attenuation. I'm fairly disappointed with that, especially for a relatively low alcohol beer with a high proportion of corn!
 
I was taken in by the 'lager and ale yeast' claim. But it doesn't ferment below 60F anyway. Dammit US-05 ferments at 60F! I think that lager claim is dubious.

Might be good for a 3% session ale though.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 02, 2014, 12:49:47 PM

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....
I've only heard of a couple of people having good attenuation with the Workhorse. Just do yourself a favor and don't use Mangrove Jack's!
I made a cream ale with Workhorse. It went from 1.048 to 1.015 for 68% attenuation. I'm fairly disappointed with that, especially for a relatively low alcohol beer with a high proportion of corn!
 
I was taken in by the 'lager and ale yeast' claim. But it doesn't ferment below 60F anyway. Dammit US-05 ferments at 60F! I think that lager claim is dubious.

Might be good for a 3% session ale though.

Wow, I think I'll pass on that one.  That's surprisingly low attenuation for a cream ale w/ maize. It's usually a more of a challenge not to finish too low with a grist like that.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: reverseapachemaster on May 02, 2014, 01:24:07 PM
People in my homebrew club won't shut up about how much they like the Mangrove Jack yeast but I tend to only hear how much they like the flavor and nothing about how it is performing on a technical level. I wouldn't be too happy with that poor of attenuation.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: 4swan on May 03, 2014, 03:02:20 PM
I've only done one batch with the M44 West Coast yeast on an APA with an OG of 1.051.  Just sprinkling and mixing in the wort, the fermentation started within 24 hours and the final gravity was 1.010, 80% attenuation.  The beer is good and I'd use the yeast again.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: Greg D on May 13, 2014, 02:47:53 AM
Have some great results to report.   

Did a very basic Bavarian style Hefeweizen with just .5 oz Northern Brewer hops at 59 minutes.   Was all about showcasing this M20 yeast.

Double pitched it and had to use a blow off for the days of chugging. 

It tastes like you just bit into and are chewing a banana.   And then it leaves you with
a tongue full of Indian Malibar Coast fresh ground black pepper.   Forget the cloves, this does go
straight to dried black pepper.

I would suggest a single pitch as in my experience that is hopefully less than what is needed to prevent a blow off.

Magnificent beer indeed. 
Total twist on Bavarian Wheat with a true base.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: Jimmy K on June 03, 2014, 01:38:27 PM

I did an IPA with Workhorse.  The beer tastes good but it finished a little high (1.018 from 1.056, 66.7% attenuation).  Curious to see if other people have had similar attenuations with this yeast.

I did a porter with the West Coast IPA yeast and got 77.6% attenuation which I was pretty happy with....
I've only heard of a couple of people having good attenuation with the Workhorse. Just do yourself a favor and don't use Mangrove Jack's!
I made a cream ale with Workhorse. It went from 1.048 to 1.015 for 68% attenuation. I'm fairly disappointed with that, especially for a relatively low alcohol beer with a high proportion of corn!
 
I was taken in by the 'lager and ale yeast' claim. But it doesn't ferment below 60F anyway. Dammit US-05 ferments at 60F! I think that lager claim is dubious.

Might be good for a 3% session ale though.
Now that it's carbonated I'm not thrilled with the flavor.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: brewsumore on June 14, 2014, 06:00:39 PM
I'm going to use their U.S. West Coast Ale M-44 tomorrow for a Blind Pig IPA clone, fermented around 64F.  I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on June 17, 2014, 01:04:36 PM
I'm going to use their U.S. West Coast Ale M-44 tomorrow for a Blind Pig IPA clone, fermented around 64F.  I'll let you know how it goes.
I had a pack of this left and decided to take the risk on a pale ale this past Sunday. It is likely the last time I will ever use Mangrove Jack's yeast. I hope I can actually get this one to attenuate lower than 1.016. Fingers crossed...
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: brewsumore on June 19, 2014, 04:48:42 PM
I'm going to use their U.S. West Coast Ale M-44 tomorrow for a Blind Pig IPA clone, fermented around 64F.  I'll let you know how it goes.
I had a pack of this left and decided to take the risk on a pale ale this past Sunday. It is likely the last time I will ever use Mangrove Jack's yeast. I hope I can actually get this one to attenuate lower than 1.016. Fingers crossed...

Beersk-bro,

Sorry for taking so long to reply - my last 3 evenings have been busy.  Anyway, if you still are fermenting your beer, check out the following "Fermentation Observations" from the yeast description at Rebel Brewer:

Fermentation Observations:

Quick to start, this strain will linger through primary and secondary fermentation, achieving final gravity after 2 weeks. Krausen will be dense and creamy, occasionally voluminous. Patience in conditioning will reward brewers with a nicely dry, yeast -neutral beer.

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shop/dry-yeast/west-coast-ale-dry-yeast-m44/

The M-44 was recommended to me at my LHBS for PA and IPA, as cleaner, more hop-focused, and more attenuative than US-05.  He was saying that US-05 attenuaes to about 76% and M-44 to around 78%.  Patience my friend!

As for being a quick starter (per the article above), I'm not convinced since after rehydration and held at 64F for 30 hrs and then up to 65F, my beer took a full +48 hrs to form a decent krauesen.  It does appear to be a slow, steady fermenting yeast.  Cheers and good luck with your brew. ;D
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on June 19, 2014, 07:49:58 PM
Thanks. Those were my observations as well. It's still going fairly steadily, although not as much as it was yesterday. It took a good 36-48 hours before it was going at full steam. I just pitched the packet, dry, into 4 gallons of 1.054 wort. Be nice if it finished at 1.012.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: dzlater on August 23, 2014, 02:06:28 PM
I used the Newcastle yeast in a mild.
OG was 1.040 finished at 1.010. 75% attenuation.
The beer turned out really well.
I'd would use again.
I also did a bitter with the Burton yeast.
THis one is still in the fermenter. After a week it went from 1.046 to 1.015.
Not great attenuation but not terrible either, 67% attenuation.
The sample tasted fine, definitly got some English type esters going on.
It wasn't any more cloudy then any other yeast I have used.
I'm going to let that one sit for a while at 70, to see if it drops a few more points by next weekend.




Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: beersk on August 23, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
Thanks. Those were my observations as well. It's still going fairly steadily, although not as much as it was yesterday. It took a good 36-48 hours before it was going at full steam. I just pitched the packet, dry, into 4 gallons of 1.054 wort. Be nice if it finished at 1.012.
My pale ale surprisingly finished at 1.009. Still will be the last time I use Mangrove Jacks.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast
Post by: brewsumore on August 23, 2014, 04:41:29 PM
My Blind Pig IPA came out great using it, and the beer was much clearer when racking from primary to keg due to very good flocculation.  I'm using it a second time tomorrow when I brew an all-citra IPA.  It was surprisingly clean given the long lag phase.  I wouldn't be surprised if its clean profile has partly to do with the slow ferment time.  I know that slower ferments yield a cleaner fruit wine with more aromatics than a hotter, faster ferment.