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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 12:38:36 AM

Title: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 12:38:36 AM
Many lagers seem to be lacking in aroma. Hard to describe, maybe very faint sulfur?  I'm curious if anyone has tried a very light dry hopping, maybe a half ounce, just enough to bring the aroma to life. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: dmtaylor on May 01, 2013, 04:03:52 AM
Sacrilege!  I don't like to late hop or dry hop my lagers.  I'm snooty like that.  I figure if you're going to make a hop bomb, it might as well be an ale or it kind of defeats the purpose of lagering to bring out the malt character.  Of course there are other people who love dry hopping their lagers and do it all the time.  It's totally up to you.  But I wouldn't do it.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 04:20:17 AM
My current lager is an ounce of northern brewer at FWH, two ounces Mt hood at FO. I was thinkin about a half ounce after the D rest while I'm stepping it down to 35 deg
I might wait till next batch though. This is my first shot at FWH and ought to see what that's like on its own before another change
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: davidgzach on May 01, 2013, 11:33:06 AM
I dry hopped a BoPils with an Ounce of Saaz and it was wonderful.  I wouldn't say it was a hop bomb, just had a very pleasant aroma.  All depends on the style and your tastes.  Sam Adams just introduced their IPL which I'd like to try as I was thinking about experimenting with this myself.  I say go for it and see if you like it or not.

Dave
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: AmandaK on May 01, 2013, 11:56:53 AM
I have a friend that made a Nelson Sauvin Pilsner. Holy hell it was amazing! Really hop forward.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 12:19:29 PM
I think I will try it on my next batches. Probably a half ounce of Mt hood or Willamette
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: davidgzach on May 01, 2013, 12:26:50 PM
Totally forgot about my super hopped pils I made earlier this year as I wanted to clear out some hops.  I didn't dry hop it but I used 5oz of Hallertauer at 1 minute.  There was already 3oz at 10 minutes and 3oz at 5 minutes for a total of 13oz in 5G (2oz at 90) and it was crazy good!

Try it, you may like it!

Dave
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: AmandaK on May 01, 2013, 12:28:40 PM
I've also brewed something close to the BCS CAP. SO MUCH SAAZ!! Quite hoppy and quite tasty.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 01, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
 I've dry hopped BoPils, and also made what were basically IPLs back in the day. I'm sure the Germans wouldn't approve, but I liked them pretty well.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: udubdawg on May 01, 2013, 12:38:09 PM
I have a friend that made a Nelson Sauvin Pilsner. Holy hell it was amazing! Really hop forward.

When someone gives ya 5 lbs of Nelson Sauvin ya find a lot of places to use it   ;D (although she hasn't shared any with me!) 

back on topic, I've dry-hopped lagers before, absolutely.  Post lagering, some additional Mittelfrue in the keg of German Pils - awesome.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 01, 2013, 12:40:45 PM
I will be dry hopping a Bell's Quinnanan Falls clone attempt today. This is a lager made with American hops with Noble hops as part of the parentage. Used Vanguard, Santium, and Crystal. Will dry hop with Crystal.

The traditional lagers I make do not get dry hopped.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: AmandaK on May 01, 2013, 12:46:45 PM
I have a friend that made a Nelson Sauvin Pilsner. Holy hell it was amazing! Really hop forward.

When someone gives ya 5 lbs of Nelson Sauvin ya find a lot of places to use it   ;D (although she hasn't shared any with me!) 

back on topic, I've dry-hopped lagers before, absolutely.  Post lagering, some additional Mittelfrue in the keg of German Pils - awesome.

She's got a Nelson Sauvin/Mosaic Pils now that I hear is amazing as well... I wish the weather would get nice so we can start porch drinkin'!  ;D
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 01, 2013, 02:04:37 PM
I made a premium American lager dry-hopped with 4oz of Motueka. It's probably one of the best beers I've ever made.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on May 01, 2013, 02:09:12 PM
I've dry hopped BoPils, and also made what were basically IPLs back in the day. I'm sure the Germans wouldn't approve, but I liked them pretty well.

Dry hopping is Reinheitsgebot-compliant, right?

I always assumed that the traditional German lagers with the brightest hop character were dry-hopped because the long lagering time makes the kettle hop flavor/aroma drop off.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 01, 2013, 02:52:53 PM
I would think it's compliant.  I was always under the impression (maybe except for some alts?) that the Germans tended not to.  I could easily be wrong.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 01, 2013, 03:21:12 PM
The Reinheitsgebot is basically BS.

http://patto1ro.home.xs4all.nl/reinheit.htm
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 01, 2013, 03:28:03 PM
I've dry hopped BoPils, and also made what were basically IPLs back in the day. I'm sure the Germans wouldn't approve, but I liked them pretty well.

Dry hopping is Reinheitsgebot-compliant, right?

I always assumed that the traditional German lagers with the brightest hop character were dry-hopped because the long lagering time makes the kettle hop flavor/aroma drop off.
It may be compliant, but is not done in Germany, with the exception of the Uerige Sticke. The reason usually stated is that late additions to the boil (10 min.) give a more refined hop aroma.
Title: Re: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 03:38:34 PM
The Reinheitsgebot is basically BS.

http://patto1ro.home.xs4all.nl/reinheit.htm
Very true for most people. You must be of German DNA to qualify as a brewer capable of brewing under the rhg
Title: Re: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 01, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
Very true for most people. You must be of German DNA to qualify as a brewer capable of brewing under the rhg

Naw, German brewers can make Belgian-style ales with sugar and export lagers with adjuncts, all "in accordance" with the RHG.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: AmandaK on May 01, 2013, 04:12:07 PM
The Reinheitsgebot is basically BS.

http://patto1ro.home.xs4all.nl/reinheit.htm

Good read. I love when people use the term 'bollocks'. Teehee.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 04:15:08 PM
Does one have to be born in Germany or just be a descendant? What if Charlemagne screwed your people out of it and now you're actually Alsatian?

I think some people are born to brew by the rhg and some are just reinheitsgebophobic from generations of bad beer. Adjunctivitis
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 01, 2013, 04:18:40 PM
Does one have to be born in Germany or just be a descendant?

I've never heard that before. That's not in the RHG. the RHG only applies to beer brewed in Germany. Doesn't really matter who brews it.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 01, 2013, 04:25:45 PM
I think it's a better law than the Texas ale law.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 01, 2013, 04:32:22 PM
Does one have to be born in Germany or just be a descendant? What if Charlemagne screwed your people out of it and now you're actually Alsatian?

I think some people are born to brew by the rhg and some are just reinheitsgebophobic from generations of bad beer. Adjunctivitis
Be of German heritage and speak German was what I was told when I lived there, but you might want to look that up. I do think some changes were made to the law after I returned home.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: bluesman on May 01, 2013, 04:41:48 PM
A friend of mine recently brought me a Sam Adams Double Agent IPL hopped with Zeus, Simcoe, Citra, Ahtanum, Cascade, Centennial, and Nelson Sauvin hops. I belive this is a dry hopped beer. It's very nice.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 01, 2013, 04:45:32 PM
Be of German heritage and speak German was what I was told when I lived there, but you might want to look that up. I do think some changes were made to the law after I returned home.

Technically, the RHG isn't the only law anymore. While it didn't strictly replace the RHG, now most brewers follow the "Vorläufiges Biergesetz" of 1993, which allows a much wider range of ingredients. I didn't see anything about the Brauer's Herkunft in there.

http://archiv.jura.uni-saarland.de/BGBl/TEIL1/1993/19931400.1.HTML
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: erockrph on May 02, 2013, 12:08:46 AM
A friend of mine recently brought me a Sam Adams Double Agent IPL hopped with Zeus, Simcoe, Citra, Ahtanum, Cascade, Centennial, and Nelson Sauvin hops. I belive this is a dry hopped beer. It's very nice.

I need to try this beer soon.

I'm a big fan of brewing hoppy lagers myself. I prefer malts like Munich instead of crystal in my hoppy beer, so going the lager route is a natural extension of that. I generally dry hop in conjunction with an extended D-rest, since I like to dry hop warm. I find that the cold conditioning process helps crash out any unwanted vegetative material and hop tannins that comes from dry hopping.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 02, 2013, 02:07:04 AM
Be of German heritage and speak German was what I was told when I lived there, but you might want to look that up. I do think some changes were made to the law after I returned home.

Technically, the RHG isn't the only law anymore. While it didn't strictly replace the RHG, now most brewers follow the "Vorläufiges Biergesetz" of 1993, which allows a much wider range of ingredients. I didn't see anything about the Brauer's Herkunft in there.

http://archiv.jura.uni-saarland.de/BGBl/TEIL1/1993/19931400.1.HTML
I was responding to what it takes to become a German citizen. I worked with a guy who was born in Germany and spoke fluent German. He was a second generation Turkish gastarbeiter, and was not eligible to become a German citizen. Different country, different laws.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 02, 2013, 03:00:52 AM
Well I broke down and dry hopped a 1/2 ounce of Mt hood in my American and a 1/2 of Goldings in my Bohemian. They are in a 60 deg D rest now. Will test FG and sample for Acetaldehyde in a week
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: davidgzach on May 02, 2013, 12:56:23 PM
Well I broke down and dry hopped a 1/2 ounce of Mt hood in my American and a 1/2 of Goldings in my Bohemian. They are in a 60 deg D rest now. Will test FG and sample for Acetaldehyde in a week

Jim, I would have waited to dry hop until after the D-Rest.  You are probably blowing off much of the aroma if there is activity......

Dave
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: erockrph on May 02, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
Well I broke down and dry hopped a 1/2 ounce of Mt hood in my American and a 1/2 of Goldings in my Bohemian. They are in a 60 deg D rest now. Will test FG and sample for Acetaldehyde in a week

Jim, I would have waited to dry hop until after the D-Rest.  You are probably blowing off much of the aroma if there is activity......

Dave

Unless there is really vigorous fermentation I doubt that this is the case. Plus, there is some information out there that suggests that yeast actually produce some of the desired hop aroma components. IMO you have more potential benefit from starting the dry hopping earlier in the process.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 02, 2013, 01:14:27 PM
Some say to add when you only have about 1 Plato to go, and the yeast are still active, but fermentaion has slowed.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: davidgzach on May 02, 2013, 01:14:35 PM
Interesting.  I always thought if there is any outgassing, you are losing aroma.  When you raise the temp, you are bound to have some activity.  Sounds like something to read up on.....

Dave
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 02, 2013, 01:58:00 PM
I start d rest when below 1.020 these were about 1.018 two days ago. No bubbles per minute
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 03, 2013, 11:50:30 PM
A friend of mine recently brought me a Sam Adams Double Agent IPL hopped with Zeus, Simcoe, Citra, Ahtanum, Cascade, Centennial, and Nelson Sauvin hops. I belive this is a dry hopped beer. It's very nice.
Bought some Sam Adams IPL on the way home, Ron.  And I like it quite a bit too.  I had a mental picture of something more akin to their Imperial Pilsener, which I love.  Not like that at all.  Pretty much their Boston Lager base (~5%abv) more or less, but hopped very nicely. I like the hop combo alot. A very good sub-$9  6- pack. Not as many of those anymore.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 04, 2013, 12:02:45 AM
A very good sub-$9  6- pack. Not as many of those anymore.

One of the few redeeming things about Missouri is the cheap craft beer. Boulevard sixer is $6 and change, some Schlafly sixers are under $6. Pretty much everything local is <$8.
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 04, 2013, 12:10:58 AM
A very good sub-$9  6- pack. Not as many of those anymore.

One of the few redeeming things about Missouri is the cheap craft beer. Boulevard sixer is $6 and change, some Schlafly sixers are under $6. Pretty much everything local is <$8.
Actually, those 2 beers are on my list as well.  Boulevard is easier to get here, but I can find Schlafly as well. 2 VERY underrated breweries. Boulevard's brewer is from Belgium ,no?
Title: Re: Dry hop a lager?
Post by: nateo on May 04, 2013, 12:16:42 AM
Actually, those 2 beers are on my list as well.  Boulevard is easier to get here, but I can find Schlafly as well. 2 VERY underrated breweries. Boulevard's brewer is from Belgium ,no?

Yeah, Pauwels is from Belgium. IIRC his dad was a brewer. He left Belgian due to brewery consolidation in Belgium.