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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: mpietropaoli on May 02, 2013, 02:23:39 AM

Title: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: mpietropaoli on May 02, 2013, 02:23:39 AM
Made a Biere de Mars-ish beer a few months back, bottle conditioned this one (bottled 2 weeks ago, so definitely still young for the gravity), but there is a distinct thin/cidery taste.  The honey (meadowfoam) was added at the last 3rd of fermentation or so.  Given the attenuation on this beast (3711; basically about 94% attenuation!), it would up with way more alcohol than planned (8.81% as opposed to 7.3% or so)...I'm thinking this should be a longer-term cellarer, as the booze is a bit evident as well.  Stepped up starter of 3711 based on yeastcalc.com.  Lagered for 4 weeks after primary. 

Will the cideryness dissipate?  I don't think it is acetaldehyde. 
Biere de Mars
16-D Bière de Garde
Author: MCP
Date: 2/25/2013

Size: 5.0 gal @ 68 °F
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 94.4%
Calories: 229.89 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.071 (1.060 - 1.080)
Terminal Gravity: 1.004 (1.008 - 1.016)
Color: 11.47 (6.0 - 19.0)
Alcohol: 8.81% (6.0% - 8.5%)
Bitterness: 27.9 (18.0 - 28.0)

Ingredients:
1 lb (7.7%) Meadowfoam Honey - added after boil, steeped 1 m
6 lb (46.1%) Belgian Pils - added during mash
1.75 lb (13.4%) Munich Malt - added during mash
4.2 lb (32.3%) White Wheat Malt - added during mash
1 oz (0.5%) Kiln Black Malt - added during mash
12 g (27.3%) Magnum (14.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 m
12 g (27.3%) Saaz (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 20 m
20 g (45.5%) Saaz (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 1 m

Schedule:
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 0.0 m


Notes
gravity measurement at 1.004! on 3/10/13
began lagering at 35* on 3/13/13, bottled on 4/17/13
slightly cidery taste, tasting on 5/1, vanilla from meadowfoam honey really coming through well

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.24
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: reverseapachemaster on May 02, 2013, 02:39:49 PM
I wonder if by "cidery" you just mean it is a little thin and you can taste the alcohol. There's really nothing you can do now that it is bottled but time should help mellow some of the boozy character.
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: klickitat jim on May 02, 2013, 02:58:04 PM
My guess Acetaldehyde. Maybe pulled from yeast a little quick?
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: mpietropaoli on May 02, 2013, 04:58:17 PM
I suppose it was a bit quick.  17 day primary total, reached fg in 2 weeks, raised temp from 66 (pitch) to 70 or so after 5 days. 

It is just thin and a bit boozy.  Probably lost mouthfeel in the crazy fermentation and from adding a bit of water with the honey.

Is it better to store something like this at cellar temp or closer to 70?
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: klickitat jim on May 02, 2013, 05:19:35 PM
I learned from this forum to taste test for Acetaldehyde along the way. I don't know the fix if one exists but I would cold store a month and see what happens
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: morticaixavier on May 02, 2013, 05:20:41 PM
I learned from this forum to taste test for Acetaldehyde along the way. I don't know the fix if one exists but I would cold store a month and see what happens

the best way to get rid of acetaldehyde, assuming it is from fermentation and not from infection, is actually a warm rest. ~72 or a little over and the acetaldehyde will start to boil away.
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: klickitat jim on May 02, 2013, 05:30:16 PM
Sweet, thanks. I had it once in an ale. That was enough for me. What about lagers though?
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: morticaixavier on May 02, 2013, 05:45:02 PM
Sweet, thanks. I had it once in an ale. That was enough for me. What about lagers though?

same deal. Once the yeast is mostly done it's not going to hurt anything to bring your lager up to 72ish. you can then bring it back down and cold condition it as you normally would. think of it as an extended d-rest.
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: klickitat jim on May 02, 2013, 05:57:20 PM
Copy that. So what if I ran my lager at 50 till it was done, then 72 for a few days before dropping to lager temps?
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: AmandaK on May 02, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
Copy that. So what if I ran my lager at 50 till it was done, then 72 for a few days before dropping to lager temps?

Exactly.
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: tomsawyer on May 04, 2013, 03:18:58 AM
Helps if you raise the temps just before its done fermenting, not after its comeptely done.
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: klickitat jim on May 04, 2013, 05:01:38 AM
This just speeds it along right? Another method could be more time on the yeast, I'm assuming
Title: Re: Cidery Taste in Biere de Mars
Post by: tomsawyer on May 05, 2013, 02:14:36 PM
Not so much speeding things along, as ensuring a good environment for the yeast to finish and clean up after themselves.  Yeast like it warm, and once they are no longer producing heat during high krausen then the temp drops and they see that as a signal to go dormant.  Raising the temp fools them into keeping active longer.