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General Category => Going Pro => Topic started by: Thirsty_Monk on May 04, 2013, 03:42:12 PM

Title: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 04, 2013, 03:42:12 PM
New book from Brewers Association:
(http://members.brewersassociation.org/store/images/resize.aspx?ImageURL=http%3a%2f%2fmembers.brewersassociation.org%2fstore%2fimages%2fresize.aspx%3fImageURL%3dimages-for-store%252f504.jpg%26M&MaxWidth=160&MaxHeight=245)

http://members.brewersassociation.org/store/detail.aspx?id=504
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on May 04, 2013, 04:16:35 PM
I have the previous edition, which I found to be pretty helpful during my initial exploration into starting a brewery.  My only complaint with the previous version is that it's a bit dated.  I'm hoping the new version will have a lot of updated info.  No reason it shouldn't, as the BA has a ton of useful survey data that they publish annually.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: a10t2 on May 04, 2013, 04:21:43 PM
I've pre-ordered my copy. BA/AHA members can get 25% off until it actually starts shipping. I only wish the new edition had come out a year ago.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: newrocset on May 05, 2013, 04:58:29 AM
Does anyone know if this is the same item that is available pre-order on Amazon?
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: jds357 on May 05, 2013, 12:48:40 PM
Does anyone know if this is the same item that is available pre-order on Amazon?

It is and it's actually available for substantially less. (55$) Also, if you have amazon prime, free shipping.  Great deal on a book that's MSRP is 90$
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: jaredwharton on May 09, 2013, 09:44:00 AM
Does anyone know if this is the same item that is available pre-order on Amazon?

It is and it's actually available for substantially less. (55$) Also, if you have amazon prime, free shipping.  Great deal on a book that's MSRP is 90$

I tried to stomach this and tell myself that "Oh well, it's for an organization I support" but this really chaps my ass. I bought through brewers publications for the discounted price of 70$ due to my AHA membership, and to think I could have just bought it through amazon for 55 pisses me off. I am really beginning to wonder if my dues are worth it.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: klickitat jim on May 09, 2013, 10:31:11 AM
I wonder if the first edition is the cheap one on Amazon not the latest edition. Don't know but it would explain the cost issue

Edit... I looked. The Amazon one is a 2006 edition
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: SecondRow_Sean on May 09, 2013, 11:57:16 AM
I wonder if the first edition is the cheap one on Amazon not the latest edition. Don't know but it would explain the cost issue

Edit... I looked. The Amazon one is a 2006 edition

Amazon has both. The newer version, available for pre-order is $55.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: klickitat jim on May 09, 2013, 12:09:57 PM
Cool. The one I saw on Amazon was $55, on back order, and of you click details it said it was 2006 version. I must not have been able to find the new one.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: michaeltrego on May 09, 2013, 12:28:12 PM
I was curious and asked the AHA the same question when the IPA book was pre-released at a 46% discount on B&N vs. 40% discount at AHA.  They responded that they have no control over those retailer's prices.  And they pointed out that the AHA ships the book 4-5 weeks before other retailers.  Thus giving members the first opportunity to read the book.  So the decision becomes how much do you value the exclusivity and the support of the AHA.  I bought the IPA book from the AHA since the price difference was literally only a few dollars and it felt like the right thing to do.

I think the real question is why this pre-release is only a 25% discount vs. 40% discount we have see on the last several books.  That makes the gap between the AHA's 25% and the retailers 43% a lot harder to justify.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: Slowbrew on May 09, 2013, 12:41:36 PM
I'm not planning buy this book from any retailer at the moment so the price difference doesn't bother me in any way. 

That said, the dues we pay to the AHA are used for far more than discounts on books.  I pay my dues because doing so supports a team of people who have our backs as home brewers.  Without them many of us would be brewing illegally in our home state.  We would not have access to the resources we currently do to improve our craft.  The book discounts are nice but not the reason we all joined the AHA.  Please keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things the AHA is a tiny organization with limited resources doing a very good job on executing on their charter.

Paul
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 09, 2013, 12:52:49 PM
I'm not planning buy this book from any retailer at the moment so the price difference doesn't bother me in any way. 

That said, the dues we pay to the AHA are used for far more than discounts on books.  I pay my dues because doing so supports a team of people who have our backs as home brewers.  Without them many of us would be brewing illegally in our home state.  We would not have access to the resources we currently do to improve our craft.  The book discounts are nice but not the reason we all joined the AHA.  Please keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things the AHA is a tiny organization with limited resources doing a very good job on executing on their charter.

Paul
+1
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 09, 2013, 01:18:40 PM
I'm not planning buy this book from any retailer at the moment so the price difference doesn't bother me in any way. 

That said, the dues we pay to the AHA are used for far more than discounts on books.  I pay my dues because doing so supports a team of people who have our backs as home brewers.  Without them many of us would be brewing illegally in our home state.  We would not have access to the resources we currently do to improve our craft.  The book discounts are nice but not the reason we all joined the AHA.  Please keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things the AHA is a tiny organization with limited resources doing a very good job on executing on their charter.

Paul
Well said.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: michaeltrego on May 09, 2013, 01:25:15 PM
I'm not planning buy this book from any retailer at the moment so the price difference doesn't bother me in any way. 

That said, the dues we pay to the AHA are used for far more than discounts on books.  I pay my dues because doing so supports a team of people who have our backs as home brewers.  Without them many of us would be brewing illegally in our home state.  We would not have access to the resources we currently do to improve our craft.  The book discounts are nice but not the reason we all joined the AHA.  Please keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things the AHA is a tiny organization with limited resources doing a very good job on executing on their charter.

Paul

+1...agree with all of your points! 
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: klickitat jim on May 09, 2013, 01:29:30 PM
I should say that I too will never start a pro brewery of any kind or size.  There are less than 50k people within a 50 mile radius of my house, but at least six breweries including a little place called Full Sail. Odds of success would be limited.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: thebigbaker on May 09, 2013, 01:39:37 PM
I'm not planning buy this book from any retailer at the moment so the price difference doesn't bother me in any way. 

That said, the dues we pay to the AHA are used for far more than discounts on books.  I pay my dues because doing so supports a team of people who have our backs as home brewers.  Without them many of us would be brewing illegally in our home state.  We would not have access to the resources we currently do to improve our craft.  The book discounts are nice but not the reason we all joined the AHA.  Please keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things the AHA is a tiny organization with limited resources doing a very good job on executing on their charter.

Paul

Couldn't have put it better.  I ordered the book through the BA Store and although I don't foresee myself going commercial anytime, it should be interesting to find out what all goes into the process of opening a brewery.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: phunhog on May 10, 2013, 02:36:09 AM
I thought about ordering it until I saw the price!! :o  75 bucks!! And that's the member's price!  I have a lot of brewing books and I don't think I have ever paid over 25 dollars.  I wonder why it's so expensive? I can't imagine any more research went to that vs. Daniel's excellent "Designing Great Beers".
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 10, 2013, 02:53:55 AM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: phunhog on May 10, 2013, 03:24:29 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

I have that book!! Very good....especially for small (under 7bbl) breweries.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on May 10, 2013, 03:27:26 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

Thanks for that link!  Just ordered.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: tschmidlin on May 10, 2013, 03:34:19 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

Thanks for that link!  Just ordered.
Me too :)
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: thebigbaker on May 10, 2013, 04:01:32 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

Thanks for that link!  Just ordered.
Me too :)

Just placed my order too, thanks!
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: a10t2 on May 10, 2013, 04:09:29 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

It's definitely worth reading, but I wouldn't consider it a replacement for the BA book. It's relatively short and geared almost entirely toward the brewing equipment side of things. (Don't get me wrong, Tom's the man when it comes to that.) Not much about financing, accounting, licensing, etc.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: tonyp on May 10, 2013, 07:23:06 PM
you guys ordered too fast, if you enter the coupon code: MAYBOOKS13 you get 20% off your order.

I got it for $15.99! woot!

:D

Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 10, 2013, 07:36:58 PM
Holy cow! Four different people actually listened to me. I think that's the first time that's ever happened. . .
Title: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: denny on May 10, 2013, 07:38:31 PM
Holy cow! Four different people actually listened to me. I think that's the first time that's ever happened. . .

Don't get used to it.....;)
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 10, 2013, 09:06:22 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

It's definitely worth reading, but I wouldn't consider it a replacement for the BA book. It's relatively short and geared almost entirely toward the brewing equipment side of things. (Don't get me wrong, Tom's the man when it comes to that.) Not much about financing, accounting, licensing, etc.
Also time of used equipment is over.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 10, 2013, 09:07:34 PM
Also time of used equipment is over.

Just give it a year or two. . .
Title: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: denny on May 10, 2013, 09:23:48 PM
Also time of used equipment is over.

Just give it a year or two. . .

Yep.  John Maier said to me a year ago that in 3 years you'll be able to buy used brewing equipment really cheap.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 10, 2013, 10:06:36 PM
Yep.  John Maier said to me a year ago that in 3 years you'll be able to buy used brewing equipment really cheap.

Whether you're an optimist or a pessimist, the current round of nanos/micros popping up is not sustainable for long. Either they'll grow a ton and have to upgrade their system, or they'll go under in a couple years. Either way, there should be a lot of 3-5bbl systems for sale soon.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 10, 2013, 10:19:46 PM
I could take one of cheap 15 BBL brewhouses please.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 10, 2013, 10:41:11 PM
I could take one of cheap 15 BBL brewhouses please.

They make those in China, but you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: newrocset on May 11, 2013, 12:36:43 PM
Here's the book the guys on probrewer.com rave about, and it's only $20: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-hennessy/brewery-operations-manual/paperback/product-20402206.html

I've been thinking about getting this book myself, and from what I'm reading on this thread, it sounds like the way to go.  I know I need to concern myself w/financing, overhead, licensing, marketing, branding, etc...and the partners I am working with seem to a have good handle on these issues. I would rather concern myself with making great beer and gaining intimate knowledge of commercial equipment.  So I'm thinking of skipping out on this new publication for now so I can spend my money on the operations manual.  Amazon also has Palmer's "Water" and Jamil's "Yeast" both for $11 right now, and I think they would be extremely valuable for me to read. 
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: tygo on May 11, 2013, 05:18:59 PM
Amazon also has Palmer's "Water"...

That's a pre-order.  Currently scheduled to be released in November 2013.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 11, 2013, 05:55:21 PM
Amazon also has Palmer's "Water"

I'll save you some money. Here's John Palmer's approach to water: Read everything Martin Brungard wrote in Bru'n Water, ignore it, then add a bunch of chalk to every beer. 
Title: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: denny on May 11, 2013, 06:33:44 PM
Amazon also has Palmer's "Water"

I'll save you some money. Here's John Palmer's approach to water: Read everything Martin Brungard wrote in Bru'n Water, ignore it, then add a bunch of chalk to every beer.

;)
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: reverseapachemaster on May 11, 2013, 10:45:15 PM
Burn
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: SecondRow_Sean on May 11, 2013, 11:43:44 PM
For those of us not in the know, I take it Martin and John Palmer do not agree when it comes to water chemistry for brewing?
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: a10t2 on May 11, 2013, 11:59:58 PM
For those of us not in the know, I take it Martin and John Palmer do not agree when it comes to water chemistry for brewing?

I doubt they'd have any serious disagreements. It's more that How to Brew was written a decade ago and is well out of date in its treatment of alkalinity in the mash.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: nateo on May 12, 2013, 01:56:47 AM
I doubt they'd have any serious disagreements. It's more that How to Brew was written a decade ago and is well out of date in its treatment of alkalinity in the mash.

Well, no, because myself and others have raised those concerns with Mr. Palmer within the last year, and he still seems to think his spreadsheet is a valuable tool for homebrewers. On that point, I have voiced my immense disagreement. Here was a thread from a while ago, for anyone that missed it:
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11944.0

The long and short of it is, I'll wait for a detailed review of the topics covered before I'll consider plopping down money for a copy.

Edit: I want to make clear, my main problem with Mr. Palmer's approach to water is he never actually said how/why he came up with the RA numbers he recommends. I asked him directly if it was based on his own empirical evidence, professional brewing literature, or some other source, and he ignored my question. To me, that sounds like it's just his WAG, and I have a very hard time taking him seriously on that topic, or any other. YMMV.
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: jaredwharton on June 08, 2013, 10:06:52 AM
Currently reading this and wanted to share just my initial impression. Dick Cantwell just may be the best writer, writing about beer that I have come across. His writing style and talent leaves all others I have read in the dust. He manages to make the Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery read like a thoughtful novel at times and a memoir at others. The information isn't laid out in a this is the way to do it sense, it is presented in a manner to evoke thought and contemplation of your own; to take and apply how you see fit. 
Title: Re: Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery (2nd Edition)
Post by: SecondRow_Sean on June 08, 2013, 05:24:56 PM
I just finished it myself and I completely agree with you. The only criticism I have, and I'm splitting hairs here, is he sometimes uses words that are a little too complicated than they need to be. It's as if he's so passionate about the the topic, he gets a little nostalgic and let's his mind wander a bit. Certainly doesn't detract from the subject matter though. Great read.