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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: micsager on May 16, 2013, 08:34:44 PM

Title: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: micsager on May 16, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
I seem to go through these things pretty quickly.  I get maybe 7-8 buckets oxygenated, and it's time to toss. 

What am I doing wrong? 
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: theDarkSide on May 16, 2013, 08:44:45 PM
How long do you run it and at what setting?  I run mine so I can see it bubbling to the surface and usually only about 45 seconds to a minute ( a little bit more for big beers ).

The red canisters are also different sizes.  I'm still using my larger one ( probably have 8 beers on it ) and I have a skinnier one for backup.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: blatz on May 16, 2013, 08:46:46 PM
what darkside said. 

i find some just seem to last longer than others.  i've gotten 12 batches on some and only 6 on others.  as long as I'm close to 10 I don't get too perturbed.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: micsager on May 16, 2013, 08:47:18 PM
How long do you run it and at what setting?  I run mine so I can see it bubbling to the surface and usually only about 45 seconds to a minute ( a little bit more for big beers ).

The red canisters are also different sizes.  I'm still using my larger one ( probably have 8 beers on it ) and I have a skinnier one for backup.

I must have mine set to high, it creates quite a bubbling action.  I go for about the same amount of time.  Sounds like I should dial it back a bit.  Thanks dude.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: jeffy on May 16, 2013, 09:29:26 PM
How long do you run it and at what setting?  I run mine so I can see it bubbling to the surface and usually only about 45 seconds to a minute ( a little bit more for big beers ).

The red canisters are also different sizes.  I'm still using my larger one ( probably have 8 beers on it ) and I have a skinnier one for backup.

I must have mine set to high, it creates quite a bubbling action.  I go for about the same amount of time.  Sounds like I should dial it back a bit.  Thanks dude.

If you see a lot of bubbles on the surface, then you're wasting it.
I have a 5 pound welding bottle and I'll bet I've been using it for three years.  I had a 20 pounder, but I accidentally left the regulator turned on during the stone rinse/clean process and it emptied.  I was sad.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: mabrungard on May 16, 2013, 09:32:47 PM
I easily get 15 to 20 batches per bottle, but I use an in-line aerator setup and infuse the wort slowly.  I also make a 1.5 L starter for ales and 3 L starter for lagers, so my need for oxygenation may be slightly less urgent than those who underpitch.  I typically see activity within 4 hours.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: micsager on May 16, 2013, 09:42:30 PM
I easily get 15 to 20 batches per bottle, but I use an in-line aerator setup and infuse the wort slowly.  I also make a 1.5 L starter for ales and 3 L starter for lagers, so my need for oxygenation may be slightly less urgent than those who underpitch.  I typically see activity within 4 hours.

I'm pitching plenty of yeast, From what others are saying I just have it turned up WAY TOO HIGH..... 8)
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: dak0415 on May 16, 2013, 11:44:59 PM
Whatever bubbles up to the surface is essentially wasted.  Bubbles should barely disturb the surface.  I give most beers 2 minutes and get 15-20 beers (10gal) per bottle.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 18, 2013, 01:19:57 AM
Mic,

Can you just get oxygen in 5lb bottles?
Or just stay away from oxygen all together.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: klickitat jim on May 18, 2013, 02:45:45 AM
I have read some dissolved oxygen info. Haven't bought into the idea for homebrew level yet. One side by side study I saw had three one gallon bottles of identical wort and yeast. One was not aerated at all, one was shook for two minutes, one was oxygenated for two minutes. All three made beer. The non aeration was slow and obviously under attenuated. The shook one started faster than the O2 one but the shook and O2 samples finished about the same.

I don't shake, I pour back and forth between buckets until the froth reaches the brim. Takes about three pours, less than a minute. There may be some science that proves O2 is better, but my low tech method works plenty good for me. Plus one less expense and piece of equipment to clean.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: mabrungard on May 18, 2013, 03:12:00 AM
I have read some dissolved oxygen info. Haven't bought into the idea for homebrew level yet. One side by side study I saw had three one gallon bottles of identical wort and yeast. One was not aerated at all, one was shook for two minutes, one was oxygenated for two minutes. All three made beer. The non aeration was slow and obviously under attenuated. The shook one started faster than the O2 one but the shook and O2 samples finished about the same.

I don't shake, I pour back and forth between buckets until the froth reaches the brim. Takes about three pours, less than a minute. There may be some science that proves O2 is better, but my low tech method works plenty good for me. Plus one less expense and piece of equipment to clean.

Unfortunately, you are playing with fire.  Everyone of those pours is introducing more airborne microbes into your wort.  If you don't have a big enough yeast pitch, you will be severely infected.  As it is, you are probably slightly infecting your beer.  Oxygenation is more sterile and therefore safer.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: klickitat jim on May 18, 2013, 03:15:08 AM
Probably can't argue that. But so far it has been fine for me.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: blatz on May 18, 2013, 12:51:00 PM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?
Title: Re: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: AmandaK on May 18, 2013, 02:57:06 PM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?

I gave up on the PITA of oxygen and use a Mix Stir now.
Title: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: denny on May 18, 2013, 03:42:35 PM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?

I gave up on the PITA of oxygen and use a Mix Stir now.

Amanda, you get today's pragmatism award!  My experience is that a MixStir works as well as an O2 setup.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: majorvices on May 18, 2013, 05:26:13 PM
How long do you run it and at what setting?  I run mine so I can see it bubbling to the surface and usually only about 45 seconds to a minute ( a little bit more for big beers ).

The red canisters are also different sizes.  I'm still using my larger one ( probably have 8 beers on it ) and I have a skinnier one for backup.

I must have mine set to high, it creates quite a bubbling action.  I go for about the same amount of time.  Sounds like I should dial it back a bit.  Thanks dude.

You'll save a lot of money just getting a tank from a welding shop and using a flow meter. But if not, as I have said here many times, if you see large bubbles coming out you are wasting it. Should be just a trickle .
Title: Re: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: klickitat jim on May 19, 2013, 02:21:48 AM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?

I gave up on the PITA of oxygen and use a Mix Stir now.

Amanda, you get today's pragmatism award!  My experience is that a MixStir works as well as an O2 setup.

My limited experience tells me I'm doing fine with splashing and will forego the O2 for the sake of being lazy, cheap, and old fashioned
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 19, 2013, 03:04:55 AM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?
Paul,
I use venturi tube and fill fermenter thru CIP ball. No problem fermenting 1072 beer.
That is the biggest beer I make.
I am on yeast 14 th generation and performance is still good.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: theDarkSide on May 20, 2013, 12:22:10 PM
I don't shake, I pour back and forth between buckets until the froth reaches the brim.

Am I mistaken if you froth it up during the aeration stage, those head forming proteins are no longer available when you carbonate and serve the beer?

I could swear I heard that somewhere.  Most likely on the internet, so it must be true  ;)

Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 20, 2013, 12:27:20 PM
I don't shake, I pour back and forth between buckets until the froth reaches the brim.

Am I mistaken if you froth it up during the aeration stage, those head forming proteins are no longer available when you carbonate and serve the beer?

I could swear I heard that somewhere.  Most likely on the internet, so it must be true  ;)


All I know is I spent alot of years rocking carboys to aerate until they frothed and my beers have excellent head retention.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: beersk on May 20, 2013, 12:45:53 PM
Same here, pouring back and forth probably doesn't mess with head retention. I like aerating with pure O2 if only for convenience. I doubt it's really necessary for most of the beers I do, which are in the 1.050 to 1.065 range. I just need to figure out what to do with the red canisters. Seems so wasteful to just throw them away.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 20, 2013, 01:21:54 PM
I use a canister and wand now, but on the times I run out of O2 and don't replace it for brew day, I aerate it 'til it froths.  Truthfully, don't notice a big difference at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 20, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
I just need to figure out what to do with the red canisters. Seems so wasteful to just throw them away.

I toss them in with the recycling.  I'm not sure that's proper disposal, though.

As for head retention, there may be valid science there but I haven't had any issues and I shake my kegs to carbonate them.  I'll fill a one-liter PET bottle when I fill the kegs and I shake that thing like mad.  Throw it in the freezer and in 30 minutes I've got fresh beer with a big rocky head.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: denny on May 20, 2013, 04:35:31 PM
I don't shake, I pour back and forth between buckets until the froth reaches the brim.

Am I mistaken if you froth it up during the aeration stage, those head forming proteins are no longer available when you carbonate and serve the beer?

I could swear I heard that somewhere.  Most likely on the internet, so it must be true  ;)

In theory, that's true.  In practice, I've never found it to be a problem. 

Might have read it here....http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/35-head-retention/697-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: AmandaK on May 20, 2013, 05:57:03 PM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?

I gave up on the PITA of oxygen and use a Mix Stir now.

Amanda, you get today's pragmatism award!  My experience is that a MixStir works as well as an O2 setup.

Hooray!  8) Do I get a sticker or something? But seriously, on a homebrew level I just don't see the point of pure O2.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: blatz on May 20, 2013, 06:12:09 PM
I just need to figure out what to do with the red canisters. Seems so wasteful to just throw them away.

I toss them in with the recycling.  I'm not sure that's proper disposal, though.


round here, I collect them and bring them to the transfer station where they collect batteries, motor oil, fluorescent bulbs, etc.   its only 2mi from my house and i wait until i have a box of stuff to take.  YMMV.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: davidgzach on May 21, 2013, 11:58:58 AM

Or just stay away from oxygen all together.

By doing what?

I gave up on the PITA of oxygen and use a Mix Stir now.

Amanda, you get today's pragmatism award!  My experience is that a MixStir works as well as an O2 setup.

Hooray!  8) Do I get a sticker or something? But seriously, on a homebrew level I just don't see the point of pure O2.

I think a mix-stir is just fine for medium gravity ales.  I was always a fan of the old whisk until I started getting whisk-elbow....  :P

But I like using O2 for high gravity ales and lagers.  It was also a Christmas present so if it didn't come from Santa I would probably still be using the mix-stir.

I put my canisters in with the recyclables.  Asked and was told it was not a problem if empty.

Dave
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 21, 2013, 12:12:46 PM
For some small beers that I want more esters in, I just pump into the fermenter. Medium gravity, the mix stir, high gravity and lagers get the O2.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: denny on May 21, 2013, 04:59:48 PM
Hooray!  8) Do I get a sticker or something? But seriously, on a homebrew level I just don't see the point of pure O2.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkuoOgEYX_7oXOboDhyJ4C_ER7CBiEB_2-mBbvJbXFbgFyKdB20Q)
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: hubie on May 21, 2013, 07:48:39 PM
For me, dropping in a stone attached to an O2 tank for a minute is way less effort than shaking, pouring back-and-forth, getting out the whisk or hooking up the drill with a whip on it.  The O2 tank is a convenience thing for me.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: jeffy on May 21, 2013, 08:09:34 PM
For me, dropping in a stone attached to an O2 tank for a minute is way less effort than shaking, pouring back-and-forth, getting out the whisk or hooking up the drill with a whip on it.  The O2 tank is a convenience thing for me.

Me too.  No trouble at all.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 21, 2013, 08:16:26 PM
As the old back gets in the way at times, the O2 is the low impact solution.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: beersk on May 21, 2013, 08:42:22 PM
For me, dropping in a stone attached to an O2 tank for a minute is way less effort than shaking, pouring back-and-forth, getting out the whisk or hooking up the drill with a whip on it.  The O2 tank is a convenience thing for me.
It works especially well for me since I ferment in kegs now. I can stick the aeration wand in there, turn the gas on for a minute, then I'm good to go. With the mix-stir I had to take the liquid tube out when I wanted to aerate, so the blades didn't hit it, and put it back in. That was kind of annoying. Plus it splashed wort all over, making a mess. With a carboy it's fine, but anything with a wide opening, it gets messy.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 22, 2013, 03:01:38 AM
Hooray!  8) Do I get a sticker or something? But seriously, on a homebrew level I just don't see the point of pure O2.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkuoOgEYX_7oXOboDhyJ4C_ER7CBiEB_2-mBbvJbXFbgFyKdB20Q)
Agree. No need for pure O2.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: gmac on May 22, 2013, 03:04:56 AM
Hooray!  8) Do I get a sticker or something? But seriously, on a homebrew level I just don't see the point of pure O2.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkuoOgEYX_7oXOboDhyJ4C_ER7CBiEB_2-mBbvJbXFbgFyKdB20Q)
Agree. No need for pure O2.

Well crap. Spent the weekend in Buffalo (lost a bet) so I brought a couple home with me to see what all the fuss was about and now I'm hearing it was a waste of money. Plus the damn things are threaded backwards so I don't have anything to screw them onto anyway.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: davidgzach on May 22, 2013, 12:40:39 PM
Hooray!  8) Do I get a sticker or something? But seriously, on a homebrew level I just don't see the point of pure O2.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkuoOgEYX_7oXOboDhyJ4C_ER7CBiEB_2-mBbvJbXFbgFyKdB20Q)
Agree. No need for pure O2.

Well crap. Spent the weekend in Buffalo (lost a bet) so I brought a couple home with me to see what all the fuss was about and now I'm hearing it was a waste of money. Plus the damn things are threaded backwards so I don't have anything to screw them onto anyway.

What was the bet?  Buffalo huh?  It will cost you $55 plus shipping to find out if you like it or not!

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/WILLIAMS-OXYGEN-AERATION-SYSTEM-P699.aspx

Dave
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: beersk on May 22, 2013, 03:05:38 PM
Yeah, it's totally sweet and easy to use, even if it's not ultimately necessary. It works great for me fermenting in kegs.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: theDarkSide on May 22, 2013, 03:40:08 PM
Yeah, it's totally sweet and easy to use, even if it's not ultimately necessary.

Neither is a $5000 brew sculpture but people do that.  I love this wand...I can put the stone exactly where I want it, instead of trying to fish a tube around.

Since I've been using pure O2, my fermentations have been rock solid.  Honestly though, I can't really remember what they were like before I was using them...I drink a lot, you see.  ;)
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: beersk on May 22, 2013, 04:16:54 PM
The first beer I used the wand on was a hefe with that new Mangrove Jack's hefe yeast. It only attenuated to 1.016 from 1.050. I rehydrated the yeast and aerated for 30 seconds so the I could see just a little movement on the surface of the wort. Perhaps that yeast just isn't that high of an attenuator. I mashed at 150-152, I think. Oh well, it should still be good.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: bluesman on May 22, 2013, 04:37:58 PM
I use the little red canisters of pure O2 from Home Depot/Lowes with a sintered stone on the end of some tygon tubing, and stir while adding the O2 for better dispersion. One minute for medium gravity ales and two minutes for lagers. I find it to be very easy, and I seem to be getting good results with the final product.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: redzim on May 23, 2013, 02:58:17 PM

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/WILLIAMS-OXYGEN-AERATION-SYSTEM-P699.aspx

Dave

Anyone using this exact system? I'm intrigued... 

How do you keep it clean though? Is the wand part difficult to sanitize?

-red
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 23, 2013, 03:02:45 PM
I use this exact system.

Super easy.  I drop the wand into a bucket star san while I'm filling the fermenters.  Then I hook it up and drop it in the fermenter.  I run the 02 while I do whatever else needs doing and then pitch the yeast.

I honestly cannot say if the 02 performs any better than using an aquarium pump and the wand, which is what I used to do.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: redzim on May 23, 2013, 03:32:35 PM
I thought it only takes seconds?
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 23, 2013, 03:44:51 PM
I give it about 60 seconds or so.  But I don't time it. 

Usually what I'm doing at that point is writing out the masking tape label for the fermenter and checking the hydrometer sample for OG.

My typical batch is 1.07+ so I figure a little extra oxygen is not going to hurt.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: beersk on May 23, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
I boil the stone part in a small pot, then spray the wand part with starsan before dropping it into the wort. Then pull it out, rinse it off, and stick it back into the boiling water for a few minutes. I turn it on before I put it into the wort and keep it running for a second after I pull it out of the wort to blow the stuff out. It's great, very simple to use.
Title: Re: Those little red cans of Oxygen
Post by: theDarkSide on May 23, 2013, 05:29:31 PM
I just drop mine in the Star San bucket, then into the carboy.  As soon as I'm done, I put it back in the star san and swish it around and maybe rinse with regular water.

Just avoid touching the stone with your hands.