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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: tschmidlin on May 24, 2013, 04:54:47 AM

Title: bridge collapse
Post by: tschmidlin on May 24, 2013, 04:54:47 AM
Damn!  They're preempting a lot of TV with live coverage of this, haven't gone to commercial in a long time.  So far it looks like no casualties.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57586023/i-5-bridge-collapses-in-nw-wash.-people-in-water/
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: ptownbrewer on May 24, 2013, 06:36:05 AM
Looks like 3 people went in but no casualties!
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: redbeerman on May 24, 2013, 12:15:53 PM
"Washington state was given a C in the American Society of Civil Engineers' 2013 infrastructure report card and a C- when it came to the state's bridges. The group said more than a quarter of Washington's 7,840 bridges are considered structurally deficient or functionally obsolete."  Not good.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 24, 2013, 01:00:21 PM
A couple of years ago bridge on I-35 collapsed in Minneapolis. It was at the evening trafic. Bridge was loaded. It was unbelievable that something like that would happen.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: saintpierre on May 24, 2013, 01:02:43 PM
Red I'm glad you brought up the report card.  Its staggering how poor our infrastructure as a whole is.  From my personal experience having worked as a civil engineering for 8 years and specifically on bridges for half of that time deficient bridges are all to common.  Good thing their were no fatalities.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: theDarkSide on May 24, 2013, 01:04:55 PM
A couple of years ago bridge on I-35 collapsed in Minneapolis. It was at the evening trafic. Bridge was loaded. It was unbelievable that something like that would happen.

Yeah, that was the one that caused every state and the federal government to look at all their bridges.  It was amazing how many red-listed bridges they were.  There are 2 large bridges that connect NH to ME that were at the top of the list.  One is going to be completed this year, the other is set to be replaced next year ( a tanker tried to take it out a couple months ago, but only damaged it...now there's a big fight about who's going to pay for the repairs ).
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: jamminbrew on May 24, 2013, 01:15:13 PM
Best part of this story: No fatalities. That could have been much worse...
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 24, 2013, 01:16:58 PM
Red I'm glad you brought up the report card.  Its staggering how poor our infrastructure as a whole is.  From my personal experience having worked as a civil engineering for 8 years and specifically on bridges for half of that time deficient bridges are all to common.  Good thing their were no fatalities.

+1.   We find endless ways to waste tax dollars, but direct precious little $$ to safe infrastructure.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 24, 2013, 01:28:30 PM
"Washington state was given a C in the American Society of Civil Engineers' 2013 infrastructure report card and a C- when it came to the state's bridges. The group said more than a quarter of Washington's 7,840 bridges are considered structurally deficient or functionally obsolete."  Not good.
i live in a state with a D rating. The winters take a toll, and we have the highest truck GVW by a factor greater than 2. The roads are 3rd world quality in places.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: Jimmy K on May 24, 2013, 01:47:03 PM
This wasn't a case of failing infrastructure - an oversized truck hit one of the supports.
 
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite)
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: MDixon on May 24, 2013, 02:01:04 PM
It's great to hear no one was killed!

- -

We had one collapse back in 1975 in our area on a very foggy night. I think 7 drove off and four people died.

http://vimeo.com/9661464

Interesting story about the bridge collapse is it was covered by Reader's Digest and a kid in Kentucky read the story and sent a note which made it to a local church down the road from us saying he would trade tree seedlings for clothes. The church drove to that rural part of KY and saw the poverty and started gathering clothes to take to Kentucky. That first year I think they took something like 8 or 10 vehicles. Last I heard they were still doing the trip and taking tractor trailers full of clothing, food and other items.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 24, 2013, 02:02:29 PM
The roads are 3rd world quality in places.

Spring time in Chicago.  I really should get winter tires with steel rims.

Infrastructure would seem to be a good place to invest tax dollars, but repairs don't make for sexy news conferences.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: morticaixavier on May 24, 2013, 03:02:42 PM
This wasn't a case of failing infrastructure - an oversized truck hit one of the supports.
 
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite)

I would think that if one truck hitting one support is enough to take down a bridge it's till failing infrastructure. just not spontaneous failure.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: jeffy on May 24, 2013, 03:21:40 PM
It was in May of 1980 that the ship Summit Venture hit a piling of the northbound span of the Sunshine Skyway bridge and caused it to collapse into Tampa Bay during morning rush hour traffic.
That was an eerie morning.  It was strange later to drive over the other span and see the broken bridge hanging over the bay.

Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 24, 2013, 03:24:18 PM
This wasn't a case of failing infrastructure - an oversized truck hit one of the supports.
 
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite)

I would think that if one truck hitting one support is enough to take down a bridge it's till failing infrastructure. just not spontaneous failure.

Could be crappy engineering and/or construction defects.  But failing/poorly maintained infrastructure is more likely.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: morticaixavier on May 24, 2013, 03:25:32 PM
This wasn't a case of failing infrastructure - an oversized truck hit one of the supports.
 
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/24/18465755-like-a-hollywood-movie-driver-survives-i-5-bridge-collapse-into-wash-river?lite)

I would think that if one truck hitting one support is enough to take down a bridge it's till failing infrastructure. just not spontaneous failure.

Could be crappy engineering and/or construction defects.  But failing/poorly maintained infrastructure is more likely.

agreed on both points. I am not a structural engineer (IANASE?) but I would think that basic design/construction failure would likely have showed up much earlier in the bridges life span.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: tcanova on May 24, 2013, 03:29:33 PM
In 2002 a tow barge hit a support of a bridge over the Arkansas River killing 14.  The barge driver blacked out and to make matters worse, a guy posing as a US army captain took charge of the disaster scene for two days!
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: Jimmy K on May 24, 2013, 03:54:22 PM
I would think that if one truck hitting one support is enough to take down a bridge it's till failing infrastructure. just not spontaneous failure.

Could be crappy engineering and/or construction defects.  But failing/poorly maintained infrastructure is more likely.
Surely, better maintanance might have helped. The article mentions that it was a "fracture critical" bridge - meaning that the bridge design would collapse if one part failed. I bet it's old engineering standards. There was probably a time when bridges weren't designed to take hits like that and they are now.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: tschmidlin on May 24, 2013, 04:06:38 PM
"Washington state was given a C in the American Society of Civil Engineers' 2013 infrastructure report card and a C- when it came to the state's bridges. The group said more than a quarter of Washington's 7,840 bridges are considered structurally deficient or functionally obsolete."  Not good.
As far a I know, that's a pretty good grade compared to other states.  This is what decades of not investing in our infrastructure gets us.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: nateo on May 24, 2013, 05:01:33 PM
As far a I know, that's a pretty good grade compared to other states.  This is what decades of not investing in our infrastructure gets us.

Careful now, only commies love bridges!
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: tschmidlin on May 24, 2013, 05:57:56 PM
As far a I know, that's a pretty good grade compared to other states.  This is what decades of not investing in our infrastructure gets us.

Careful now, only commies love bridges!
;D Commies and people who like to cross rivers and lakes without getting wet, or getting on a boat of some sort.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 24, 2013, 06:48:29 PM
+1  ;D
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: HobsonDrake on May 24, 2013, 06:53:43 PM
As a person who drives over another old bridge in the south of the state on a regular basis, I wonder if this shock will get the WA house to approve the monies to do the Colombia River Crossing.
Not looking forward to 3-5 years of major traffic but it needs to be done.
Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 24, 2013, 07:14:43 PM
There was also a failurea when a barge hit the South Padre Island Bridge on Sept 16, 2001. There are now stop lights that are activated if a wire carrying a signal is severed.

A good read is the latest by Henry Petroski, and he has a section on bridge failures. seems there is one that happens every 30-40 years, often due to unforeseen consequences as a bridge type is refined. His opinion is that the cable stayed bridges will be a cantidate for the next major failure.

http://www.amazon.com/Forgive-Design-Understanding-Failure/dp/0674065840



Title: Re: bridge collapse
Post by: tschmidlin on May 25, 2013, 02:19:04 AM
I was on my way to work this morning and I'm connecting to I5 in a few miles and see an electronic sign that says "I5 closed, use alternate routes".  I was thinking, what do you mean I5 is closed?  What's going on?

Then the sign changes to say "I5 closed at exit 227", which is where the bridge failed and is like 60 miles north of me.  What the hell?  If I was going that way, there is no decent alternate route.  You drive all the way up there, take some local detour around the failed bridge, then get back on I5.  Do I really need to plan that from 60 miles away?

Dumb.