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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: ynotbrusum on June 04, 2013, 01:51:33 AM

Title: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: ynotbrusum on June 04, 2013, 01:51:33 AM
Just brewed a Flanders red last Saturday and pitched a slurry of Roselaere blend from a buddy who harvested it a few weeks back.  It took off quickly in a swamp cooler, but I am wondering if I will need to add some more lacto and Brett in this setting, because the yeast took off so quickly that it looks like the yeast will be attenuating this down pretty far.  I was also considering adding some malto dextrin after the yeast are done to give the lacto and Brett their own meal....just thinking out loud.    Does the blend retain its original ratios after harvest and repitch?
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: reverseapachemaster on June 04, 2013, 03:59:26 AM
There will be some drift and there may not be active lacto but the brett and pedio will still be alive and functional. They will be fine without any additional assistance.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 04, 2013, 11:11:56 AM
+1

I think beers from 2nd/3rd pitches of this yeast are far more complex than the beer from the initial pitch.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: ynotbrusum on June 04, 2013, 06:12:34 PM
So leave it be or is the "complex" nature something that needs to be tweaked here in any way?
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: ynotbrusum on June 05, 2013, 07:24:56 PM
I will be leaving it be ... But the fermentation has already slowed after only 4 days - it ramped up quickly and robustly.  I will let it free rise from 65f to around 70 to finish off the primary, then leave it in primary on the yeast and bugs for a month total, then rack to glass with an oak cork (if I can get that made for me) for cellaring.  Then leave it be until next year around the time of my daughter's planned wedding.  If its ready, I will serve some there.  The guests will include science types (my daughter is a microbiologist) who will appreciate the work of saccharomyces cerevisiae, brettanomyces, pediococcus, and lacto bacillus.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 06, 2013, 02:45:08 PM
Honestly - unless you need the fermentor, or you carried over a BUNCH of trub from the kettle, just leave it in primary.

Less oxygen exposure, less work, closer to forgetting about it for awhile.

Also, I've noticed that my mixed-ferment beers left in primary usually form a thicker pellicle and in less time. Maybe I'm imagining this trend.

Don't bother with the oak cork.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: ynotbrusum on June 10, 2013, 01:27:52 AM
It is presently in a plastic barrel - 10 gallon batch in 14 gallon plastic barrel that has a metal compression band.  Should I bulk age it in that?  I was thinking of getting it into glass for long term storage - then finish by putting 5 gallons in an oak barrel I acquired...at least for a month or so at the very end.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: AmandaK on June 10, 2013, 01:36:03 AM
It is presently in a plastic barrel - 10 gallon batch in 14 gallon plastic barrel that has a metal compression band.  Should I bulk age it in that?  I was thinking of getting it into glass for long term storage - then finish by putting 5 gallons in an oak barrel I acquired...at least for a month or so at the very end.

I would not age in plastic. If you have glass, use it.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: morticaixavier on June 10, 2013, 03:28:26 AM
It is presently in a plastic barrel - 10 gallon batch in 14 gallon plastic barrel that has a metal compression band.  Should I bulk age it in that?  I was thinking of getting it into glass for long term storage - then finish by putting 5 gallons in an oak barrel I acquired...at least for a month or so at the very end.

I would not age in plastic. If you have glass, use it.

is this concern because the plastic may leach unpleasant stuff into the beer? or for o2 permeability concerns? or something else?

I can see some concern over leaching as the beer's pH drops and I have no idea if it's something else, but on the o2 permeabilty side I would think that plastic would be fine. an oak barrel is going to have some significant o2 permeability and that is the traditional fermentation and aging vessel for many mixed ferments. Just curious about your thinking here.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: reverseapachemaster on June 10, 2013, 06:14:04 AM
Usually plastic is eschewed due to oxygen permeability concerns. Personally, I would not use a plastic fermentor for long term aging without knowing it is food grade plastic and the oxygen permeability just because not all plastic containers are made with food storage in mind. I think the fear of aging in buckets is somewhat overblown but I've never personally gone more than a few months in a bucket (and with no ill effects). I do have a better bottle with 2.5 year old lambic and it is fine so if what you are using is made of the same stuff as better bottles it will probably be ok.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 10, 2013, 12:49:01 PM
It is presently in a plastic barrel - 10 gallon batch in 14 gallon plastic barrel that has a metal compression band.  Should I bulk age it in that?  I was thinking of getting it into glass for long term storage - then finish by putting 5 gallons in an oak barrel I acquired...at least for a month or so at the very end.

I would not age in plastic. If you have glass, use it.

is this concern because the plastic may leach unpleasant stuff into the beer? or for o2 permeability concerns? or something else?

I can see some concern over leaching as the beer's pH drops and I have no idea if it's something else, but on the o2 permeabilty side I would think that plastic would be fine. an oak barrel is going to have some significant o2 permeability and that is the traditional fermentation and aging vessel for many mixed ferments. Just curious about your thinking here.
It is the O2 that is a concern. You can find some tables for different materials in Wild Brews. If you don't have that book, info is on page 19 of the talk by Mr. Vinnie Cilurzo.
http://www.ahaconference.org/conference/past-presentations/2007-presentations/
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: morticaixavier on June 10, 2013, 03:39:50 PM
It is presently in a plastic barrel - 10 gallon batch in 14 gallon plastic barrel that has a metal compression band.  Should I bulk age it in that?  I was thinking of getting it into glass for long term storage - then finish by putting 5 gallons in an oak barrel I acquired...at least for a month or so at the very end.

I would not age in plastic. If you have glass, use it.

is this concern because the plastic may leach unpleasant stuff into the beer? or for o2 permeability concerns? or something else?

I can see some concern over leaching as the beer's pH drops and I have no idea if it's something else, but on the o2 permeabilty side I would think that plastic would be fine. an oak barrel is going to have some significant o2 permeability and that is the traditional fermentation and aging vessel for many mixed ferments. Just curious about your thinking here.
It is the O2 that is a concern. You can find some tables for different materials in Wild Brews. If you don't have that book, info is on page 19 of the talk by Mr. Vinnie Cilurzo.
http://www.ahaconference.org/conference/past-presentations/2007-presentations/

well that answers that. I wouldn't do a long term ageing in a bucket either if I had ANY concern about too much acetobacter activity. that's amazing almost 10x as much o2 permeability as my 20 liter barrel.
Title: Re: Roselaere Blend repitch
Post by: ynotbrusum on June 10, 2013, 06:14:49 PM
Yep - asked and answered.  One month in the plastic - then over to glass.  I'll do the oaking, if at all, as the step before the bottling stage....