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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: travjohn92 on June 06, 2013, 03:00:31 PM

Title: WLP630
Post by: travjohn92 on June 06, 2013, 03:00:31 PM
I am going to brew a berliner weiss using WLP630.  I searched the forums to try to get some information, but one thing I never could find is a proper fermentation temp.  I have seen ferment in the low 60's and I have read start fermentation in the high 70's.  I know that lacto by itself like to start high (I think near 100 or so), but I know I cant do that based on the other yeast in the blend.

What recommendations do you have or related past / present experience using this blend?
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: Jimmy K on June 06, 2013, 06:05:09 PM
I've never used it, but the lacto is pretty slow. I always here that you must wait months to get proper sourness.  You might ferment cool for clean ale yeast fermentation and then warm it up to promote the lacto fermentation.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: redbeerman on June 06, 2013, 06:50:28 PM
I used it once and was not impressed by amount of lactic acid produced. I let it sit for six months.  YMMV
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: travjohn92 on June 06, 2013, 06:58:56 PM
I used it once and was not impressed by amount of lactic acid produced. I let it sit for six months.  YMMV

To get more sour, do you think I should pitch some straight lacto at 100 degrees and then when it gets to a normal pitch the blend when it gets to 68-72 range?
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 06, 2013, 07:08:50 PM
I never understood the yeast/lacto blend.

Just grow up a lacto starter at 100F, knock out around the same temp, and pitch the lacto starter first. At higher temps and without competing with the yeast, lacto can produce the appropriate acidity in days to weeks rather than months.

After the beer is tart enough, aerate and pitch healthy yeast. Making a starter will help the yeast complete fermentation in an acidic environment.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: redbeerman on June 06, 2013, 07:46:13 PM
I never understood the yeast/lacto blend.

Just grow up a lacto starter at 100F, knock out around the same temp, and pitch the lacto starter first. At higher temps and without competing with the yeast, lacto can produce the appropriate acidity in days to weeks rather than months.

After the beer is tart enough, aerate and pitch healthy yeast. Making a starter will help the yeast complete fermentation in an acidic environment.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.  Make sure to keep your temperature high though.  Like making yogurt high.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: reverseapachemaster on June 06, 2013, 08:43:49 PM
May want to try a sour mash/sour wort instead.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: Jimmy K on June 07, 2013, 02:10:16 AM
May want to try a sour mash/sour wort instead.
This is the awesome answer.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: troybinso on June 07, 2013, 01:47:40 PM
I never understood the yeast/lacto blend.

Just grow up a lacto starter at 100F, knock out around the same temp, and pitch the lacto starter first. At higher temps and without competing with the yeast, lacto can produce the appropriate acidity in days to weeks rather than months.

After the beer is tart enough, aerate and pitch healthy yeast. Making a starter will help the yeast complete fermentation in an acidic environment.

Yeah, I don't get how a lacto/sacch blend is supposed to work either. The ideal environment for lacto is low alcohol and not so low pH. Once the yeast gets going it produces alcohol and lacto kind of stops itself once it gets to a certain pH. Get the lacto in there all by itself for a few days and try to keep it around 100F and it should get plenty sour.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 07, 2013, 02:18:59 PM
May want to try a sour mash/sour wort instead.

I don't recommend this method cause I can't back it up with successful experience.

This is the summer of the kettle/mash sour for me. After I get it down, maybe I can demystify it a bit for others.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: travjohn92 on June 08, 2013, 01:03:53 AM
Thanks for all the answers guys, but no one has answered my original question.  I have the wlp630 blend, I am going to use it, just looking for recommendations on an initial pitch temp.  Should I keep it high (80ish for a few days) so the lacto starts doing its thing and then lower it to a more traditional ale yeast temp (mid 60's) or something different?
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: passlaku on June 08, 2013, 01:37:03 AM
When I made a Berliner Weiss I pitched a sachet of Nottingham and the 630.  I pitched both at low ale temps and let the temp rise.  I was concerned that at high temps the ale yeast will produce fusel (hot) alcohols which make for bad drinking and gnarly hangovers.  After the initial yeast growth about 2 or 3 days I kicked up the temp and thought the lacto would kick in.  My experience was that I got almost no lacto tartness at bottling and even after conditioning I got little or no funk at all (it tasted like liquid Wheaties or maybe muslix).  Given my experience, I'd pitch in the 80s and just let it sit for several months - let it get nice and tart.  Please report back with results.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: travjohn92 on June 12, 2013, 12:34:20 AM
Okay, so I went ahead and bought a vial of white labs lac to wlp633.  I know I need to pitch at around 100, but what method do you use to keep it that warm? The ambient temperature in my basement is 72-74 which is not warm enough.  I have brew belt which my guess is will bring it up to maybe 80. My neighbor offered to let me set my fermenter in his hot tub which is 99-102 when not in use, what do you think about that option?  Any other input is much appreciated.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: Jimmy K on July 02, 2013, 12:59:32 PM
You could set the fermentor in a bucket of water with an aquarium heater. That should at least get it to 90. WYeast says a week at 90 will work for their lacto.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: troybinso on July 02, 2013, 01:38:30 PM
I chilled the wort down to about 90 when I pitched. I have a heat pad for back pain, etc. and my wife has a couple of heat pads for starting seedlings. I put those in between two carboys and then wrapped blankets and sleeping bags all around the carboys. I tape a digital meat thermometer with a long wire probe to the outside of one of the carboys and put some insulation around it so I can monitor temperatures. My basement temp was about 65 at the time and it kept things right around 100.

You said you picked up WLP 633, and I don't know what that is. The Berliner blend is 630, and the pure lacto is 677. If you are using the blend with yeast I would not start this high. If you are using the pure lacto then I would follow this plan.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: reverseapachemaster on July 02, 2013, 02:06:07 PM
May want to try a sour mash/sour wort instead.

I don't recommend this method cause I can't back it up with successful experience.

This is the summer of the kettle/mash sour for me. After I get it down, maybe I can demystify it a bit for others.

I've done several sour worted beers and all have turned out fantastic. Tart but clean. I've never had the bad experiences other people have. Maybe it's because I don't sour the whole mash with the grains left behind.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: ynotbrusum on July 02, 2013, 06:15:27 PM

I've done several sour worted beers and all have turned out fantastic. Tart but clean. I've never had the bad experiences other people have. Maybe it's because I don't sour the whole mash with the grains left behind.

So, do you sour about a third or so of a full batch, then rack and add it to cooled wort that has been pitched with a neutral yeast strain for the balance?  Or do you blend after the yeast ferments?  That sounds interesting.
Title: Re: WLP630
Post by: Jimmy K on July 02, 2013, 06:36:00 PM
My friends method is to sour the whole wort. Inoculate with 1 lb of new grain. Hold 24 hours at 100 in a cooler. Then quickly boil, cool, and pitch yeast. You must keep oxygen out while souring.

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